Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity - Page 208

New Brisavoine · #**4141** Posted **Feb 21, 2023, 10:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Interesting idea! Let's start to collect funding for a giant sign at the Ontario border: "Québec, where the Québécois are at home"

waar = where
Vlamingen = Flemings
thuis = at home (thuis is a contraction of "te huis", i.e. "in house")
zijn = are

Here some people crossed "Vlamingen" and replaced it with "iedereen" ("everybody").

lio45 · #**4142** Posted **Feb 21, 2023, 10:36 PM**

We could export the modern Canadian solution: everybody in Dilbeek would start their meetings with an acknowledgement that they're on unceded Flemish territory, then they'd all proceed to go about their daily business in French only

New Brisavoine · #**4143** Posted **Feb 21, 2023, 10:54 PM**

^^That's the US solution. Did you see Biden in Warsaw today addressing the crowds in English-only as if he was in Kansas City? I'm always baffled by the arrogance and linguistic imperialism of the Americans (or USAians, or whatever you call them). No European leader would ever dare to do that in a country where people don't speak his/her language.

Acajack · #**4144** Posted **Feb 21, 2023, 10:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

We could export the modern Canadian solution: everybody in Dilbeek would start their meetings with an acknowledgement that they're on unceded Flemish territory, then they'd all proceed to go about their daily business in French only

Brilliant!

OldDartmouthMark · #**4145** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 12:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^That's the US solution. Did you see Biden in Warsaw today addressing the crowds in English-only as if he was in Kansas City? I'm always baffled by the arrogance and linguistic imperialism of the Americans (or USAians, or whatever you call them). No European leader would ever dare to do that in a country where people don't speak his/her language.

I didn't realize that Biden spoke Polish. How arrogant of him.

lio45 · #**4146** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 1:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Did you see Biden in Warsaw today addressing the crowds in English-only as if he was in Kansas City?

As opposed to... Biden in Warsaw, addressing the crowd in fluent, stutter-free, perfect Polish?

(I see Mark has beaten me to it!)

New Brisavoine · #**4147** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 1:44 AM**

So you guys mean Emmanuel Macron addressing a crowd in the central square of Tokyo in French would be fine then? Or, horresco referens, a French president not fluent in English (as François Hollande, or possibly Marine Le Pen in 2027) addressing a crowd in the central square of Toronto in... French? Imagine the headlines in the Anglophone media if he/she dared to do that...

If you don't speak the language of the natives, either you have a translator who translates your speech, or you don't make a speech at all.

lio45 · #**4148** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 1:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Or, horresco referens, a French president not fluent in English (as François Hollande, or possibly Marine Le Pen in 2027) addressing a crowd in the central square of Toronto in... French?

Sure thing, especially right after proclaiming "Vive le Québec libre!" in Montreal then attending the official inauguration of the new giant sign that says "Québec, where the Québécois are at home" at the eastern end of the 401.

theman23 · #**4149** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 2:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So you guys mean Emmanuel Macron addressing a crowd in the central square of Tokyo in French would be fine then? Or, horresco referens, a French president not fluent in English (as François Hollande, or possibly Marine Le Pen in 2027) addressing a crowd in the central square of Toronto in... French? Imagine the headlines in the Anglophone media if he/she dared to do that...

If you don't speak the language of the natives, either you have a translator who translates your speech, or you don't make a speech at all.

The Polish people in the crowd didn't seem to be so upset at him speaking English. Its almost as if they spoke it too.

kwoldtimer · #**4150** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 2:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by theman23

The Polish people in the crowd didn't seem to be so upset at him speaking English. Its almost as if they spoke it too.

Maybe they were just cheering the light show.

MonctonRad · #**4151** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 2:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Agents provocateurs are like baking powder. Without baking powder, no cakes.

Without gunpowder, no bombs............

Loco101 · #**4152** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 4:22 AM**

Why do some people on here think that if someone is Québécois(e) then he/she has to be francophone?

Hali87 · #**4153** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 5:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So you guys mean Emmanuel Macron addressing a crowd in the central square of Tokyo in French would be fine then? Or, horresco referens, a French president not fluent in English (as François Hollande, or possibly Marine Le Pen in 2027) addressing a crowd in the central square of Toronto in... French? Imagine the headlines in the Anglophone media if he/she dared to do that...

On one hand I think Le Pen (or whoever) would mostly be fine with that anyway, and that they'd more likely just deliver the speech in French (with maybe some token English thrown in occasionally, or maybe not) in Montreal or Ottawa or somewhere like that. Why on earth would Le Pen be giving a speech in English in Toronto in the first place?

On the other hand I think critics would be critics but ultimately a French leader giving a speech in French in a country where a lot of people speak French is not very controversial (in and of itself). If they did that in Tokyo, well, most of the crowd wouldn't understand French, but they probably would understand English (roughly as well as the average French politician might). Is the leader of Japan expected to speak fluent French, German, Italian and Flemish (+Polish, Czech, Greek, Estonian, Swedish, etc) every time they visit the EU?

New Brisavoine · #**4154** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 1:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Sure thing, especially right after proclaiming "Vive le Québec libre!" in Montreal then attending the official inauguration of the new giant sign that says "Québec, where the Québécois are at home" at the eastern end of the 401.

Shouldn't it be "Québec, où les Québecois sont chez eux" ?

New Brisavoine · #**4155** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 1:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by theman23

The Polish people in the crowd didn't seem to be so upset at him speaking English. Its almost as if they spoke it too.

Of course, you'll always find a crowd of eager Americanophiles. Especially in Eastern Europe. Whether they understood all of what he said is another matter...

MonctonRad · #**4156** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 1:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Of course, you'll always find a crowd of eager Americanophiles. Especially in Eastern Europe. Whether they understood all of what he said is another matter...

Do you really want Biden to deliver his speech in Polish? That could lead to unexpected consequences.

After all, John F. Kennedy tried this once in Berlin in the early 1960s and ended up calling himself a donut.

New Brisavoine · #**4157** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 1:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hali87

Is the leader of Japan expected to speak fluent French, German, Italian and Flemish (+Polish, Czech, Greek, Estonian, Swedish, etc) every time they visit the EU?

Precisely, the prime minister of Japan is not in the habit of giving big speeches in the central squares of large European cities with a music show before, and lights like a movie star during his speech, all in his native tongue, and with Japanese music only of course. That smacks of arrogance and cultural imperialism. I understand that the Poles are fine with it since they (rightly or wrongly) believe that Uncle Sam is their savior, but in the rest of Europe there are several places where that wouldn't go down too well.

PS: Imagine Joe Biden doing the same on the Place d'Armes in Montréal... I wonder how the Québecois would react.

MolsonExport · #**4158** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 1:28 PM**

This is a really stupid issue to pick on Biden.

Agent Provocateur, indeed.

What the fuck does Biden's non-Polish speech have to do with Quebec?

New Brisavoine · #**4159** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 1:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Do you really want Biden to deliver his speech in Polish?

Once again, Poland doesn't lack very good translators that can make a live translation of his speech. And real great statesman make a point of delivering their speeches in the local tongue.

De Gaulle learned by heart his speeches in foreign tongues, even those he wasn't fluent in. For example here in Mexico:

• Video Link

Or Churchill in Strasbourg:

• Video Link

Acajack · #**4160** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 1:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Shouldn't it be "Québec, où les Québecois sont chez eux" ?

Of course.

You do see stickers like these here and there BTW:

https://imperatif-francais.org/produ...e-ca-se-passe/

I remember a few years ago there was a worker at a ticket booth in a Montreal métro station who put one up, and someone filed a human rights complaint about it!