Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

The two 1-series provincial highways that intersect in (downtown) Sherbrooke are King Street (Route 112) (named after William IV) and Queen Victoria Blvd (Route 143)

That's not particularly rare or noteworthy. Quebec grew a lot between 1760 and the Quiet Revolution; that growth often has a British flavor, for obvious reasons.

It's not impossible to rename the streets though. That's what the Indians have done. What if the British had chosen to name Québec the "Province of Georgeland". Would that name still be the official name?

PS: I've just seen they call that street "Rue King" in French, which is ridiculous.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sounds like a pretty racist statement, something like Levesque or (by jove) Parizeau would say.

In Quebec your linguistic purity goes hand in hand with how pur laine you are. This is why Quebecers look down on Acadians, especially those with the temerity to speak Chiac.

Quebecers are very much like ancient Romans, a society where your status is determined by the quality of your rhetoric, discourse and oratory (the superiority of you linguistic skills).

Well when you go to Quebec and speak Franglais it does stand out. Many people from my region who are francophone tell me that they will often feel uncomfortable speaking in French there because they won't know the proper word or terminology for things and get strange looks when they use English words/terms. It's not really rudeness but that the Quebecer will have a WTF look on his/her face.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Alas no. I am shortly going to make a 75 km drive to a hot air balloon fiesta in Sussex NB and have to remain sober to refrain from any untoward altercations with the local gendarmerie along the way.

Should be a good evening - it's clear, calm and warm here in God's country, and there will be a harvest moon rising this evening.

Lucky you! Have a great time!

Fun fact: a hot air balloon is known as a Montgolfier in French. Named after the French Montgolfier brothers who are credited with invented the classic style of a hot air balloon.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It's not impossible to rename the streets though. That's what the Indians have done. What if the British had chosen to name Québec the "Province of Georgeland". Would that name still be the official name?

PS: I've just seen they call that street "Rue King" in French, which is ridiculous.

I really don't find it funny because I know why it's that way. It was named for a British King or Kings. If it had been named for French Kings then it certainly would be Rue du Roi (or Rue des Rois or in older French Rue du Roy)

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by janbe74

There are many people in France who have trouble understanding the French from Quebec.

Just as there are many people in the US who have trouble understanding the English from Britain.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For the handful of people here that can understand French (you know, the real French as spoken on either side of the Atlantic)... even Justin Trudeau himself admits he is self-conscious about his French.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqBo7-dtLJA

These people have an awful English accent when they speak French. To me they sound like Anglophones trying to speak French.

Justin Trudeau, on the other hand, has no English accent when he speaks French. But he sounds somehow gay (even though he isn't I believe), but that's how his accent sounds, a bit feminine.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

If you want to make Ancient Rome style oratory illegal in Canada, vote for Poilievre, he's actually promising some sort of Plain Grade-6 Language Act to make sure everything can always be understood by even the dumbest hick

In that case all of Canada should adopt Haitian Creole. Problem solved.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I really don't find it funny because I know why it's that way. It was named for a British King or Kings. If it had been named for French Kings then it certainly would be Rue du Roi (or Rue des Rois or in older French Rue du Roy)

Except that "Rue King" seems to imply it's a street named after a Mr King (Martin Luther King?). Either call it "King Street", or "Rue royale", or even better, rename it and call it "Rue René Lévesque" (), but "Rue King" is a bit idiotic.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Except that "Rue King" seems to imply it's a street named after a Mr King (Martin Luther King?). Either call it "King Street", or "Rue royale", or even better, rename it and call it "Rue René Lévesque" (), but "Rue King" is a bit idiotic.

It's challenged by a lot of people but a big part of our historiography is that British conquest was not only a bad thing, or at least a historical inevitability.

Hence the lack of eagerness to change the British names of stuff, even if some of them have been change it is true.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by niwell

There’s seemingly nothing more than many Anglo Canadians like to claim than they know “Parisian French”. Always found it kinda funny. No skin in this game as my French is godawful and maintaining any semblance of conversation would be a huge win.

Likewise.

If I happened across a French-Canadian of any sort of that tried to wow me with a RP English accent as a marker of sophistication in this country, I'd probably give them the side-eye pretty hard. I see no reason why the opposite situation would result in any other reaction.

At most, my weak spoken French language skills might be more 'proper' because my ability to effectively communicate without using very traditional grammar would be extremely poor. Using language poorly requires either unfamiliarity or extreme familiarity with it in a certain context.

Now, if I had to choose an English accent to communicate clearly with an international audience in English, the choice would pretty much down to North American standard English or RP based on the audience.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Likewise.

If I happened across a French-Canadian of any sort of that tried to wow me with a RP English accent as a marker of sophistication in this country, I'd probably give them the side-eye pretty hard. I see no reason why the opposite situation would result in any other reaction.

At most, my weak spoken French language skills might be more 'proper' because my ability to effectively communicate without using very traditional grammar would be extremely poor. Using language poorly requires either unfamiliarity or extreme familiarity with it in a certain context.

Now, if I had to choose an English accent to communicate clearly with an international audience in English, the choice would pretty much down to North American standard English or RP based on the audience.

A relative of mine speaks English with a mix of RP and a Canadian francophone accent.

They grew up in a wholly francophone part of the country and only learned very basic English in school, but perfected their English living abroad for many years.
But not in North America.

[New Brisavoine]

In other news, France has now become a British Dominion. This is the letter sent by the prefects (representatives of the French State in each of the 101 departments of France) to the mayors of all French municipalities:



Emmanuel Macron at his usual autocratic and crazy self!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Lucky you! Have a great time!

Fun fact: a hot air balloon is known as a Montgolfier in French. Named after the French Montgolfier brothers who are credited with invented the classic style of a hot air balloon.

Documentary evidence:



There are 10 balloons in this photo. 20 balloons were launched in total. There have been more in the past (high 20s, perhaps 30), but this is a nice rebound for the fiesta given the fact that the event was scuppered the last three years by bad weather and the pandemic.

Perhaps for this reason, the crowds were immense. Thousands of people in attendance. The drive back to Moncton felt like a drive on the 401, there was so much traffic.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Emmanuel Macron at his usual autocratic and crazy self!

Toi, y'a pas à dire, t'es souvent super mesuré et subtile dans tes commentaires...

Don't even bother. It's just politeness to the English. The prez is not going to hurt them when it's not necessary.
I was a bit pissed at the European Union flags gone half-mast for this after their Brexit, that was like their middle finger to us all, but again, it is only tact.
They probably know what they do.

However, I think the French media is overdoing this story. You know, they always say - it's funny how we beheaded Louis XVI while so many French are still so fascinated by the British monarchy.
Really? Except for my old Breton aunt who's a funny monarchy nerd (not only about the English one, but all remaining monarchies in Europe and especially Monaco), I've never seen anybody so interested in that kind of things in our country.
As for my uncle, he smiles in her back and whispers - never mind, it entertains her. Lol.

I don't even know why our media talks about it so much. It must be boring a lot of people out here.
They must be losing a lot of their audience aged less than 70.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Except that "Rue King" seems to imply it's a street named after a Mr King (Martin Luther King?). Either call it "King Street", or "Rue royale", or even better, rename it and call it "Rue René Lévesque" (), but "Rue King" is a bit idiotic.

In true “bilingual Canada” fashion, it’s actually “Rue King Street”

The thing is, you can’t avoid picking one name and sticking with it. Sherbrooke was 50/50 for a while, so some streets changed names (Council St to rue du Conseil, for example) while others (in Anglo areas usually) did not.

You’ll probably be amused by one name change in particular: the central spine of early Sherbrooke, Market Street, in which later became a fully Canadien neighborhood, got renamed to honor the priest who discovered the source of the Mississippi: this guy https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Marquette

(It’s still rue Marquette today.)

An unilingual Francophone won’t get it, of course. “Le marché public? Vous le trouverez, bien entendu, sur la rue Marquette. Deuxième à droite par là. (Pas débrouillard, ce touriste…)”

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by mousquet

It's just politeness to the English.

Politeness? Did the British fly flags at half-mast when the French president died in office in 1974? Right!

The Anglo-mania of a certain part of the French public, including officialdom apparently, is simply insane, and unhealthy. And Macron is as usual treating the country as if it was his private property. Thank God several left-wing mayors are refusing to fly flags at half-mast.

https://twitter.com/F3Centre/status/1568949987865665539

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

the central spine of early Sherbrooke, Market Street, in which later became a fully Canadien neighborhood, got renamed to honor the priest who discovered the source of the Mississippi: this guy https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Marquette

(It’s still rue Marquette today.)

That's clever. They could probably rename that "Rue King" as "Rue Martin Luther King" then. Two birds with one stone.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

That's clever. They could probably rename that "Rue King" as "Rue Martin Luther King" then. Two birds with one stone.

We’re 30 km too far north for that to make sense, but “Rue W. L. Mackenzie King” could work.

Though, “Rue du Roi” would be a better choice IMO, if the status quo somehow isn’t an option anymore.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Thank God several left-wing mayors are refusing to fly flags at half-mast.

Yeah, I won't blame on them for that either. Whatever, the English media won't check on the flag of every single town hall in the country. They will watch only the main central state official buildings in Paris.

Just keep in my mind we have no interest in going into deep trouble with the English.
They are good customers, we sell them lots of stuff. Our trade balance is usually positive to the UK. That's quite a change from Germany.
You know, we sell more of our stuff to them than we purchase theirs. So it'd be pretty stupid to get in trouble with them.
I'd rather be more aggressive to the Germans these days.

Their queen was a fan of our country, paid 14 official visits to us. And who knows how much time she actually spent in France? Definitely a lot.
Her son le Charles would also be fond of France, that's very cool. I'd rather focus on what's positive for our country and businesses.

That's a bit of a cynical attitude, but that's what they taught us after all.

[harls]

King Street is used thoughout Canada.. and Québec is not an exception.

It was named King in Sherbrooke because of English settlers. Over the years it just morphed into 'rue King'.

Not sure why this is ridiculous.