The future of regional/city identity/connections among the younger generation?

[Tom In Chicago]

It's hard to know what the younger generation of Chicagoans think of Chicago because Chicago has such a heavy identity. . . people get tattoos of the city flag. . . people here are not just proud of the city, but quite zealous about it. . . even if you look at how segregated the city is from a white/black/latino perspective you can always find common ground as a Chicagoan and based upon my travels over the years, I just don't think that's the same in other cities. . .

. . . and like Steely says, when someone asks where (or what country) you're from and you answer, "Chicago" it will come with some baggage. . . good, bad or otherwise. . . but no one from here is afraid to confront that baggage and in some cases we relish the potential for confrontation. . .

Finally I think part of that is simply the fact that the resiliency of living here is what keeps people here grounded. . . we all have the winter to deal with, and since the population is relatively stable there's a bit of inertia where in other cities mentioned - I'm looking at Toronto here - the transformation from older to younger generations is much more stark in contrast. . .

That's my thoughts on the matter. . . fight me!

. . .

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

Social media certainly does make culture and phrases national or global, but culture still can be regional. Ask someone in Los Angeles or Phoenix or Seattle what "jawn" means, for instance.

I think people younger than 40 are much more likely to recognize "jawn" regardless of what city they live in. They're even more likely to recognize it if they pay any type of attention to Black focused media.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

. . . and like Steely says, when someone asks where (or what country) you're from and you answer, "Chicago" it will come with some baggage. . . good, bad or otherwise. . . but no one from here is afraid to confront that baggage and in some cases we relish the potential for confrontation. . .

Totally!

When I get the usual "OMG! you live in Chicago? Like in the actual city? Isn't it SO violent?" from some wide-eyed stranger in an airport bar in Phoenix or wherever, I love to respond with some super snarky and sarcastic (though delivered with maximum deadpan) retort like "it's not that big a deal. I've lived there my entire life, and I've only been murdered three times. So a lot of it is just media hype."

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Social media has been a game changer for Canada as its massively raised the country's profile around the world. Before the proliferation of social media, Canada was an international enigma due to the limited reach of traditional Canadian media. Foreigners have become far more connected to Canada/Canadian places.

Younger Canadians mirror older generations as Canadians have always been outward/global in their perspective due to our relative size. When you only have 39 million people, your gaze shifts to the world beyond. There's always been a balance between our connection to where we're from/where we live and the world beyond Canada.

Is it really a given that populations in this range will be that outward-focused though? I mean, say, to pick a roughly similar rough population-range but noticeably more strong-identity country, Spain is 47 - 48 million to Canada's roughly 40, would you say Canada is more global-looking than Spain?

How about, say Argentina with 46 million, Poland, just a bit less than Canada at 38, or Morocco at 37 or so?

I think, it's not just raw size but other factors like Canada's relatively "new" growth and weakness of unified national identity (e.g. one uniting British, French and native, plus a lot of really new immigrants since the last... however far you want to consider "recent" immigrant" wave... 100 years, 50, last generation?) plus being in the Anglosphere so as to be relatively hooked up to global US/UK culture (both this century and last) but somewhat subservient to them for most of history (rather than being a "core" center of a linguistic/cultural bloc e.g. the way Spain or France is, even if you have a situation where for e.g. Spain is outweighed in population by former colonial offshoots in the New World).

I mean, I don't know how if you put the two countries' comparisons side-by-side, most Aussies feel in terms of global outlook or similar outward-facing attitudes, but Canada seems kind of similar in some ways (if not, then partly due to being just so close to the US, the world's dominant cultural superpower still).

[Crawford]

From an outsider perspective, Canada is more outward looking bc it lacks a clear unifying national identity and bc it happens to border the global cultural juggernaut. Spain might be similar size, but has an identity spanning centuries via the monarchy's nation-building. And Anglosphere countries (not to offend Quebec) tend to easily slide into a shared cultural space.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Part of it is likely due to Canadians having historical psychological hang-ups about being behind the times and not "with it". (Obviously related to cultural insecurity via the US.)

That's why domestic stuff like Canadian football, curling and even hockey (a little bit) now gets shunned in favour of flashy stuff like NBA.

Soccer also has a veneer of coolness and is rapidly ascendant in Canada, though since we are in North America it lacks the star power of the NBA that is propelled not just by the sport itself but by US celebrity news, social media, pop music and music videos, fashion, TV, movies, etc.

Wouldn't you say that it's still being boosted by whatever's popular in the US?

So that the popularity of soccer is just due to its rise in clout in North America broadly (Canada + US together) not soccer being more popular (vs. the US) because Canada is more global and Canada was quicker to catch globalization trends?

In general, wouldn't you say Canada still catches global trends via the US first popularizing them, not by being "ahead of the curve" in catching global trends ahead of the US? For example, when K-pop or Eurovision or the World Cup soccer, or whatever else is popular in Canada, is there any evidence that it's because Canada's more cosmopolitan link to Europe/Asia drove it independently as opposed to "it just caught on in the US first/at the same time, not earlier".

Now it's probably true that some Canadian stuff influenced the US vs. vice versa (after all, people are quick to point out that a Canadian invented basketball, some North American sports, and maybe other things like entertainment, given Canadians in Hollywood, also music etc. have shared pedigrees etc.).

However, there are probably maybe? just a few examples of Canada's increased globalization/multiculturalism also catching international trends without (necessarily that much?) mediation from the US (e.g. perhaps something like how elements of Black Canadian culture separate from "traditional" Black America do come from more global elements, the international Francophone African, Haitian influence, the Caribbean/Somali influence in Toronto Black culture, but then you might say part of this also is shared with that in e.g. France itself, London, England, like "Multicultural London English", so it's just now that these places are the mediators, instead of the US).

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Crawford

From an outsider perspective, Canada is more outward looking bc it lacks a clear unifying national identity and bc it happens to border the global cultural juggernaut. Spain might be similar size, but has an identity spanning centuries via the monarchy's nation-building. And Anglosphere countries (not to offend Quebec) tend to easily slide into a shared cultural space.

I think language might be a big part of this.

When Europeans and Asians (or non-Anglophones) pick up American culture (I mean, for instance look at the popularity of baseball in Japan, or not just last century but all the 21st century American slang on social media, K-pop influenced by US pop), there's still a noticeable "adjustment" so that the American thing sticks out because it's in a different language (even if it's nativized, it shows up as an English loanword or slang phrases, is described in a different language, accent etc.).

If an Anglophone borrows something into another Anglophone culture, the language contrast isn't there to mark the foreign-local boundary (e.g. K-pop is American-influenced but has lyrics in the Korean language, e.g. people around the world rap in foreign languages even if the beat is recognizable, but how would you easily delineate Canadian pop or Aussie pop etc. vs. American and Brit, maybe some themes, except on a case by case basis, knowing the bands, artists etc.).

[jmecklenborg]

I remember hearing awhile back that Canadian TV and radio stations were always required to air at least 50% Canadian programming. That means that half or close to half of the programming came from elsewhere, and mostly from the US.

The US never had to mandate anything like that since the domestic market is so big that very little outside programming ever became popular.

Speaking of which, RIP Jerry Springer, former lawyer and politician who was born in London, grew up in New York City, and spent his early career in Cincinnati. After his time in local politics, he was the anchor for WLWT News and hosted a daily talk show in the lobby of a downtown hotel. That show was the springboard for the national Jerry Springer Show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HH3YE5w2-s

Jerry was far from the biggest local media personality in town. It's a shame looking back on how vibrant the local media landscape was as recently as 2005 or so and how much it has been destroyed by the internet.

We still have a terrific public access low-wattage station that I listen to regularly, but I often wonder if I'm just about the only person listening. I mention the station to coworkers and they've never heard of it and I don't sense that just about anyone under 35 listens to the radio, ever.

[chimpskibot]

After reading these replies You guys are all pretty clueless LOL. I am the oldest Gen-Z being born in 1998 and after living in the wealthy philly suburbs, NYC and now Greater Center City Philadelphia, I think it all depends on the place.

In Philadelphia it really breaks down by race in my opinion. For most of my white peers in Philadelphia they associate the city with sports, regional specific slang like "Jawn", "Youse Guys" and Legacy foods like Cheesesteaks/Hoagies/Pretzels. My POC friends mainly associate the city with food such as South East Asian/Ethiopian/West African, etc and really not much more :/.

In New York my Gen Z friends are much more micro in their association with the city and really it revolves around where you live and where you hang out. An example Bushwick is now the epicenter of cool for many Gen Z in America because of the neighborhoods progressive DJ and Tattoo Scene such that just living there automatically associates you with these subcultures to pretty much anyone under 28. I also think although gen-z live throughout the city its culture is very much tied to Bushwick now just as the millenials were tied to LES/Williamsburg.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

In New York my Gen Z friends are much more micro in their association with the city and really it revolves around where you live and where you hang out. An example Bushwick is now the epicenter of cool for many Gen Z in America because of the neighborhoods progressive DJ and Tattoo Scene such that just living there automatically associates you with these subcultures to pretty much anyone under 28. I also think although gen-z live throughout the city its culture is very much tied to Bushwick now just as the millenials were tied to LES/Williamsburg.

The gravitation to Bushwick was started by Millennials. Gen-X started the migration to the LES and Williamsburg. It'll be interesting to see what neighborhood Gen-Z makes "cool", though. Maybe Cypress Hills or something lol.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Maybe Cypress Hills or something lol.

But Cypress Hill was already extremely cool among us GenX-ers 3 decades ago.


Source: https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.co...-album-feature

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

But Cypress Hill was already extremely cool among us GenX-ers 3 decades ago.

Wrong coast lol

[Steely Dan]

^ well yeah. As some of the pioneeers of west coast hip hop, I think we're all pretty well aware that Cypress Hill (the band) wasn't from Brooklyn.

Next you'll probably tell me that Linkin Park didn't hail from the poshest neighborhood on the Northside of Chicago ("NO WAY!").

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Wouldn't you say that it's still being boosted by whatever's popular in the US?

So that the popularity of soccer is just due to its rise in clout in North America broadly (Canada + US together) not soccer being more popular (vs. the US) because Canada is more global and Canada was quicker to catch globalization trends?

In general, wouldn't you say Canada still catches global trends via the US first popularizing them, not by being "ahead of the curve" in catching global trends ahead of the US? For example, when K-pop or Eurovision or the World Cup soccer, or whatever else is popular in Canada, is there any evidence that it's because Canada's more cosmopolitan link to Europe/Asia drove it independently as opposed to "it just caught on in the US first/at the same time, not earlier".

Now it's probably true that some Canadian stuff influenced the US vs. vice versa (after all, people are quick to point out that a Canadian invented basketball, some North American sports, and maybe other things like entertainment, given Canadians in Hollywood, also music etc. have shared pedigrees etc.).

However, there are probably maybe? just a few examples of Canada's increased globalization/multiculturalism also catching international trends without (necessarily that much?) mediation from the US (e.g. perhaps something like how elements of Black Canadian culture separate from "traditional" Black America do come from more global elements, the international Francophone African, Haitian influence, the Caribbean/Somali influence in Toronto Black culture, but then you might say part of this also is shared with that in e.g. France itself, London, England, like "Multicultural London English", so it's just now that these places are the mediators, instead of the US).

Yeah, I don't find that Canada really has much of an "inside track" over the US when it comes to British culture anymore. I think that may have existed at some point in the past, but it's been gone for several generations. Canadians aren't into soccer these days because we had Queen Elizabeth on our money. And Canadians got into Downton Abbey around the same time as Americans did.

Before streaming services like Netflix existed, the exposure Canadians got to British television was often from PBS stations beamed in from the US, via programs like Masterpiece Theatre.

Now, places like Australia and New Zealand do have an "inside track" on British culture, and are quite different from Canada in this respect.

[Wigs]

The British soap opera, Coronation Street, has been aired on CBC since 1966.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Wigs

The British soap opera, Coronation Street, has been aired on CBC since 1966.

Yes, a notable exception indeed!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

However, there are probably maybe? just a few examples of Canada's increased globalization/multiculturalism also catching international trends without (necessarily that much?) mediation from the US (e.g. perhaps something like how elements of Black Canadian culture separate from "traditional" Black America do come from more global elements, the international Francophone African, Haitian influence, the Caribbean/Somali influence in Toronto Black culture, but then you might say part of this also is shared with that in e.g. France itself, London, England, like "Multicultural London English", so it's just now that these places are the mediators, instead of the US).

Yeah, in this respect I do think there is stuff that is going on that can sometimes be independent of what the US takes an interest in. There are some immigrant communities that are super-sized in Canada relative to their presence in the US, and this can make a big difference.

Contemporary immigration in Toronto probably has as many if not more similarities with the newcomer demographics in London, as it does with those in New York.

Massive Latin American immigration isn't really thing in Canada. I mean, even Buffalo NY is something like 12% Hispanic, whereas Toronto and Montreal are only around 3%.

[Bonsai Tree]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

It's hard to know what the younger generation of Chicagoans think of Chicago because Chicago has such a heavy identity. . . people get tattoos of the city flag. . . people here are not just proud of the city, but quite zealous about it. . . even if you look at how segregated the city is from a white/black/latino perspective you can always find common ground as a Chicagoan and based upon my travels over the years, I just don't think that's the same in other cities. . .

. . . and like Steely says, when someone asks where (or what country) you're from and you answer, "Chicago" it will come with some baggage. . . good, bad or otherwise. . . but no one from here is afraid to confront that baggage and in some cases we relish the potential for confrontation. . .

Finally I think part of that is simply the fact that the resiliency of living here is what keeps people here grounded. . . we all have the winter to deal with, and since the population is relatively stable there's a bit of inertia where in other cities mentioned - I'm looking at Toronto here - the transformation from older to younger generations is much more stark in contrast. . .

That's my thoughts on the matter. . . fight me!

. . .

I wouldn't be too worried about the younger generations in Chicago.

Maybe Chicago really is special in that regard, but younger people definitely still do identify with the city and the surrounding region. Even for those who move, Chicago is often the city they identify with the most.

I think the biggest fight for the younger generations is actually suburbs vs city, even though we're all part of one big region (I get why people get upset over it, but is it really that big of a deal?).

I'm not an expert on the entire younger generations, but I'd say I'm younger than most posters here, so there's that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

I think language might be a big part of this.

When Europeans and Asians (or non-Anglophones) pick up American culture (I mean, for instance look at the popularity of baseball in Japan, or not just last century but all the 21st century American slang on social media, K-pop influenced by US pop), there's still a noticeable "adjustment" so that the American thing sticks out because it's in a different language (even if it's nativized, it shows up as an English loanword or slang phrases, is described in a different language, accent etc.).

If an Anglophone borrows something into another Anglophone culture, the language contrast isn't there to mark the foreign-local boundary (e.g. K-pop is American-influenced but has lyrics in the Korean language, e.g. people around the world rap in foreign languages even if the beat is recognizable, but how would you easily delineate Canadian pop or Aussie pop etc. vs. American and Brit, maybe some themes, except on a case by case basis, knowing the bands, artists etc.).

Some stuff does get re-packaged for anglosphere countries, though. Not so much movies and popular music, but a lot of TV shows do.

But almost nothing gets re-packaged for Canada. (At least not in English.) And even for British-originated stuff like The Office, Canada gets the US version and very few people here pay attention to the British original.

Now, (almost) everything in global culture ends up getting a Québécois version.

For example, here is the Quebec version of the British comedy show "Taskmaster":

https://www.facebook.com/Noovo.ca/vi.../?locale=fr_FR

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

An example Bushwick is now the epicenter of cool for many Gen Z in America because of the neighborhoods progressive DJ and Tattoo Scene

DJ'ing keeps getting technically easier and easier, yet the clout of people who press play on a laptop keeps getting greater.

Also, tattoos used to be reserved for ex-cons, navy vets, Holocaust survivors, and biker gangs. Now it's for...progressives.