Your city's Jewish community

[Quixote]

Greater LA is now only 30% NHW, with Jews making up about 3.9-4.1% of the population. So their share is more 12-14%.

I figure Greater NYC and South Florida have a similar Jewish share, somewhere in the 22-24% range. LA County is about the same.

The LA community study found the catchment area (population 7.06 million) to be about 8% Jewish. This is similar to South Florida, its CSA being 6.8-6.9 million. However, a whopping 39% of South Florida's Jewish population is 65 or older; 25% 75 or older. In Palm Beach County, those 75+ (36%) alone outnumber those 0-34 (29%).

Are Jewish NY/NJ people still moving to South Florida en masse. I know they did during the height of the pandemic, but is it a "rite of passage" that is sort of slowly withering away?

[Docere]

These are rather different questions and methodologies though.

Pew is asking religion and this is the NHW subset of the population. So it's not including Jews of no religion or the smaller nonwhite Jewish population. If one assumes Jews declare no religion at the same rate as whites generally, they're about 12% of the white population in the LA metro area which sounds reasonable.

The Jewish surveys are looking for Jews specifically, but there's no comparative perspective.

Still, you can see the basic pattern. Overall we can see the very heavy white Catholic presence in New York and that Jews outnumber Mainline Protestants. Miami/South Florida whites are almost a three-way split between Protestants, Catholics and Jews. LA County whites are significantly Jewish, but the Jewish population tapers off to non-remarkable levels outside of LA County.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Docere

From the Pew Forum

New York whites

Evangelical Protestant 7%
Mainline Protestant 11%
Catholic 36%
Jewish 14%
Unaffiliated 24%

Los Angeles whites

Evangelical Protestant 21%
Mainline Protestant 14%
Catholic 15%
Jewish 8%
Unaffiliated 32%

Miami whites

Evangelical Protestant 13%
Mainline Protestant 15%
Catholic 24%
Jewish 24%
Unaffiliated 19%

Is Pew's estimate that 8% of non-Hispanic whites are Jewish for the Los Angeles CSA, MSA, or what?

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Docere

Pew is asking religion and this is the NHW subset of the population.

Is it asking all NHW what religion they identify with or specifically religious NHW what religion they identify with?

[Docere]

2021 ACS for ancestry and Brandeis Project for Jewish population.

Los Angeles County

Jewish population 530,400 5.4%
German 433,857 4.4%
English 367,540 3.7%
Irish 360,979 3.7%
American 300,243 3.1%
Italian 250,878 2.6%

Orange County

German 241,764 7.6%
English 233,204 7.4%
Irish 193,389 6.1%
American 132,724 4.1%
Italian 122,256 3.9%
Jewish population 86,600 2.7%

Riverside County

German 174,938 7.1%
English 144,113 5.8%
Irish 130,354 5.4%
Italian 78,677 3.2%
American 62,372 2.5%
Jewish population 33,600 1.4%

San Bernadino County

German 131,812 6%
Irish 108,256 4.9%
English 104,373 4.8%
Italian 52,836 2.4%
American 52,070 2.4%
Jewish population 16,900 0.8%

Jews outnumber every white ancestry group in LA County, you have your standard German-English-Irish lead everywhere else.

[Quixote]

Also, what are the general metrics for determining what is a "Jewish neighborhood"?

Majority or plurality of the total population? Percentage of the population? Percentage of the NHW population? Percentage in relation to German/Irish/English? Percentage of in-marriages? Density of Jewish institutions and establishments?

[Docere]

It's basically the closest thing the US has to a census religion question. They're asking everyone.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Docere

2021 ACS for ancestry and Brandeis Project for Jewish population.

Los Angeles County

Jewish population 530,400 5.4%
German 433,857 4.4%
English 367,540 3.7%
Irish 360,979 3.7%
American 300,243 3.1%
Italian 250,878 2.6%

Orange County

German 241,764 7.6%
English 233,204 7.4%
Irish 193,389 6.1%
American 132,724 4.1%
Italian 122,256 3.9%
Jewish population 86,600 2.7%

Riverside County

German 174,938 7.1%
English 144,113 5.8%
Irish 130,354 5.4%
Italian 78,677 3.2%
American 62,372 2.5%
Jewish population 33,600 1.4%

San Bernadino County

German 131,812 6%
Irish 108,256 4.9%
English 104,373 4.8%
Italian 52,836 2.4%
American 52,070 2.4%
Jewish population 16,900 0.8%

Jews outnumber every white ancestry group in LA County, you have your standard German-English-Irish lead everywhere else.

Using those two different sources measuring different things means you're likely double-counting some folks there--Jewish people who list German ancestry, for example.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Also, what are the general metrics for determining what is a "Jewish neighborhood"?

Majority or plurality of the total population? Percentage of the population? Percentage of the NHW population? Percentage in relation to German/Irish/English? Percentage of in-marriages? Density of Jewish institutions and establishments?

There's no exact definition. Outright majority would be very limiting, there are few suburbs or neighborhoods in North America that meet that criteria. I'd say around 25% or 30% of the population because that generally takes you past "affluent neighborhood where many people are Jewish."

In Toronto, every 25%+ Jewish census tract is located near Bathurst St. and north of Davenport Rd (Casa Loma).

[Docere]

Originally Posted by craigs

Using those two different sources measuring different things means you're likely double-counting some folks there--Jewish people who list German ancestry, for example.

The ancestry count is already rife with double-counting though. How many German-Irish or English-Irish or English-German mixes are there?

It's pretty difficult to define "WASP", because they're really defined more by what they're not. They're really just your, dare I say, "generic white Americans." For all practical purposes, White Protestants are more or less one group. Not all Anglo-Saxon and some are of no religion (or belong to other religions), but most come close enough to the WASP descriptor.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Docere

2021 ACS for ancestry and Brandeis Project for Jewish population.

Los Angeles County

Jewish population 530,400 5.4%
German 433,857 4.4%
English 367,540 3.7%
Irish 360,979 3.7%
American 300,243 3.1%
Italian 250,878 2.6%

Orange County

German 241,764 7.6%
English 233,204 7.4%
Irish 193,389 6.1%
American 132,724 4.1%
Italian 122,256 3.9%
Jewish population 86,600 2.7%

Riverside County

German 174,938 7.1%
English 144,113 5.8%
Irish 130,354 5.4%
Italian 78,677 3.2%
American 62,372 2.5%
Jewish population 33,600 1.4%

San Bernadino County

German 131,812 6%
Irish 108,256 4.9%
English 104,373 4.8%
Italian 52,836 2.4%
American 52,070 2.4%
Jewish population 16,900 0.8%

Jews outnumber every white ancestry group in LA County, you have your standard German-English-Irish lead everywhere else.

Missing Ventura County.

What matters is the macro-metro-level view because it removes arbitrariness and quirks with respect to place-specific settlement patterns.

For the five-county region, you have roughly:

1,050,000 Germans
900,000 English
850,000 Irish
709,000-750,000 Jewish

"American" can mean Jewish, English, Scots-Irish, European mutts, or patriotic people.

Other than German ancestry, which some Jews might claim, "Jewish" isn't that far behind. Many, if not most, who claim German ancestry also have English and/or Irish heritage. There's no legacy German or Irish (or Italian) immigrant or English colonial culture like you see in the "ethnic white" cities, either. LA's "ethnic" whites are almost strictly Jews (including Persian) and Armenians. In a way, LA is less WASPy than Chicago, Boston, and Philadelphia because all three have an equal or greater percentage of both German and English ancestry, as well as in relation to their respective Jewish populations.

[Docere]

And around three-quarters of Greater LA's Jews are in LA County. While the majority of non-Jewish whites are in the suburban counties. The basic pattern is pretty clear.

[Quixote]

I think there definitely is something to be said about Jews in NY/NJ/CT and South Florida being more ubiquitous in a way that isn't true for Greater LA.

That being said, I also think that there isn't a "Jewish quarter" either. The whole "Jews only live in West LA and in the SFV south of Ventura" is an oversimplification. Jews are certainly heavily concentrated in that part of the metro, but how is that any different than 40% of NYC-area Jews living in Brooklyn and Manhattan? It's Brooklyn, Manhattan, Nassau, Westchester, Bergen, Rockland, and Orange that do the heavy lifting. Queens, The Bronx, Suffolk, CT, and most of NJ are mostly well below the metro average but generally in the 5-7% range (still high).

There are Jewish concentrations at literally the most extreme ends of Greater LA — Coachella Valley and the sparsely populated Ojai Valley, where there's a chabad, synagogue, and Jewish summer camp.

I think another interesting dynamic is that South Florida gets more Jewish the farther you get away from Miami. In LA, there are actually urban Jewish neighborhoods that are ethnic and middle, upper-middle, and upper-class, including the Orthodox enclaves of Hancock Park / Citrus Square / Fairfax and Pico-Robertson.

[Docere]

Are the Palm Springs/Coachella Valley Jewish numbers really that remarkable though? There are 20,000 Jews in the area out of 350,000 that the local federation serves.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...nd-desert-area

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Quixote

It's Brooklyn, Manhattan, Nassau, Westchester, Bergen, Rockland, and Orange that do the heavy lifting. Queens, The Bronx, Suffolk, CT, and most of NJ are mostly well below the metro average but generally in the 5-7% range (still high).

And Ocean County (Lakewood).

How many counties in Metro NY do Jews make up at least 10% of the population or at least 20% of the NHW population? Quite a few.

Queens is more Jewish than L.A. County by percentage and it has some very heavily Jewish neighborhoods (mostly of an Orthodox and/or immigrant character). A plurality of NHWs are Jewish (I suspect LA County whites are still more Protestant than Jewish).

Essex County also has a large Jewish population - it's a majority-minority and largely urban county, but has some very Jewish suburbs. More than 20% of Essex County whites are Jewish.

Yet the numbers in Queens and Essex County are "unremarkable" by NYC area standards. That just shows how Jewish the region is.

Even Middlesex County. It isn't particularly affluent or Jewish by NYC standards, but its Jewish percentage (7.5%) is quite high and they're nearly a fifth of the white population.

It's not like West LA and SFV = the Pale of Settlement and Jews are completely absent outside of that. But LA County (the western half) is really the only Jewish-heavy part of the metro. In contrast, you can find Jewish-heavy areas all over the NYC metro.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Docere

It's not like West LA and SFV = the Pale of Settlement and Jews are completely absent outside of that. But LA County (the western half) is really the only Jewish-heavy part of the metro. In contrast, you can find Jewish-heavy areas all over the NYC metro.

"Jewish-heavy" is relative.

NJ, by NYC-area standards, isn't "Jewish-heavy" compared to Brooklyn, Manhattan, Nassau, Rockland, and Orange. It's those areas that are 15% or more Jewish. The rest, minus Westchester, Bergen, and Ocean, are in the 5-7% range. There's a larger Jewish presence everywhere because there are a lot more Jews. That doesn't mean that they're all evenly distributed though, which is the point I'm trying to make. The fact that the heaviest concentration of Jews in Greater LA is in a corner of the metro area as opposed to the center creates an illusion that there is a "Jewish quarter."

You too can find areas in Greater LA outside the Westside and SFV that are in the 4-6% range. Coachella Valley is one. Ventura County is nearly 5% Jewish. Long Beach city is about 4% Jewish. The South Bay (Playa Vista, Playa Del Rey, Westchester, El Segundo, Manhattan Beach, Hermosa Beach, Redondo Beach, Torrance) is probably in the 4-6% range as well. Same for south OC.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Quixote

"Jewish-heavy" is relative.
NJ, by NYC-area standards, isn't "Jewish-heavy" compared to Brooklyn, Manhattan, Nassau, Rockland, and Orange.

NJ contains the third largest Jewish concentration on earth, after Israel and Brooklyn - Lakewood and environs. It's the second most Jewish state. All of its heavily populated counties have a Jewish presence. I'd say it's pretty Jewish. Most white middle class+ areas in NJ will have some Jewish presence. In other parts of the U.S., that usually isn't the case.

Given the big changes in Ocean County outside Lakewood, I'd wager that Jewish share of NHW in NJ will grow significantly in the coming years. Toms River and Jackson are becoming Lakewood extensions. Most of the U.S. has secular-leaning Jewish populations, which are arguably slowly dissolving into UMC white cultural environment. NJ growth is Orthodox.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Quixote

"Jewish-heavy" is relative.

NJ, by NYC-area standards, isn't "Jewish-heavy" compared to Brooklyn, Manhattan, Nassau, Rockland, and Orange. It's those areas that are 15% or more Jewish. The rest, minus Westchester, Bergen, and Ocean, are in the 5-7% range. There's a larger Jewish presence everywhere because there are a lot more Jews. That doesn't mean that they're all evenly distributed though, which is the point I'm trying to make. The fact that the heaviest concentration of Jews in Greater LA is in a corner of the metro area as opposed to the center creates an illusion that there is a "Jewish quarter."

You too can find areas in Greater LA outside the Westside and SFV that are in the 4-6% range. Coachella Valley is one. Ventura County is nearly 5% Jewish. Long Beach city is about 4% Jewish. The South Bay (Playa Vista, Playa Del Rey, Westchester, El Segundo, Manhattan Beach, Hermosa Beach, Redondo Beach, Torrance) is probably in the 4-6% range as well. Same for south OC.

So Long Beach, south OC, Coachella and Ventura County are less Jewish by percentage than the entire state of NJ. It's a nonsensical comparison.

Let's put it this way. In SoCal, I don't think there's any suburbs outside of L.A. County are more than 20% Jewish. In NJ, you'll find them all over the place (and of course there's the huge Orthodox concentration in Lakewood). In many NJ counties, Jews outnumber WASPs/White Protestants.

While I agree there's no Jewish quarter and many secular and assimilated Jews or people of Jewish backgrounds live in non-Jewish areas, I do think there's a "Jewish sector" in L.A. You can take a slice of contiguous geography where 1) the majority of the Jewish population lives and 2) it contains all the Jewish enclaves. You can't do that in the NYC area, there are big Jewish concentrations in all directions.

These are differences in kind, not just degree.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Quixote

In a way, LA is less WASPy than Chicago, Boston, and Philadelphia because all three have an equal or greater percentage of both German and English ancestry, as well as in relation to their respective Jewish populations.

Now that raises an interesting question.

Boston for example is a much whiter city than L.A., so WASPs make up a larger percentage of the overall population.

On the other hand, Boston was historically the most Catholic city in the US, while LA whites are mostly Protestant. So LA whites are more WASPy.

One could also debate, I suppose, whether L.A. or Boston is more Jewish.

Boston is the most Jewish metro in the US after New York and Miami/South Florida by percentage.

OTOH, L.A. has a larger Jewish population than Boston and has denser Jewish concentrations and more visible enclaves. And Hollywood is central to the image L.A. presents to the world.

Boston Jewry is also overshadowed by nearby New York and the visible Irish American population who form the largest ethnic group. People think of Boston as an Irish city and/or associate it with Harvard and other universities (which have sizeable numbers of Jewish faculty and students of course, but it's not "Hollywood").

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Crawford

NJ contains the third largest Jewish concentration on earth, after Israel and Brooklyn - Lakewood and environs. It's the second most Jewish state. All of its heavily populated counties have a Jewish presence. I'd say it's pretty Jewish. Most white middle class+ areas in NJ will have some Jewish presence. In other parts of the U.S., that usually isn't the case.

Given the big changes in Ocean County outside Lakewood, I'd wager that Jewish share of NHW in NJ will grow significantly in the coming years. Toms River and Jackson are becoming Lakewood extensions. Most of the U.S. has secular-leaning Jewish populations, which are arguably slowly dissolving into UMC white cultural environment. NJ growth is Orthodox.

Yeah, but even with Bergen and Ocean Counties, there's a huge drop once you cross the Hudson. NYC, specifically Brooklyn and Manhattan, have not just numbers and percentage but also density. Roughly 35% of all NYC-area Jews live in those two boroughs. Throw in Nassau County, and it jumps to 44%. Compare Brooklyn/Queens and Nassau/Suffolk. It's lopsided.

The average for North/Central Jersey is 7.3%, a steep drop-off from the 16.9% that is the Brooklyn, Manhattan, Nassau triumvirate. It is still more Italian/Irish (and in some places German), even in Bergen and Ocean.