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  #701  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2023, 2:29 AM
worldtrade2021 worldtrade2021 is offline
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There is still construction taking place to the south of St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church. A dividing section with a wall of some kind sticking up that looks like a viewing platform has been constructed.

January 31, 2023



April 7, 2023



The western sections of the roof still look incomplete with panels laying about.

At times, the lights on sections of the western dome have dimmed before being restored later.

April 3, 2023


April 9, 2023


Regarding 5 WTC, Arik on New York YIMBY forums posted this link:

https://www.slideshare.net/RahsaanLB...evelopmentpptx

Like the presentation of 2 WTC from 2022, the overall theme of 5 WTC is environmentally conscious design, sustainability and emphasizing fitness of residents and occupants.

Slide 21 shows the following chart suggesting construction on 5 WTC might begin soon:



However, as posted previously in the 200 Greenwich Street thread (with addendums in bold):

Quote:
Originally Posted by worldtrade2021 View Post
the PAC will probably be the next to finish construction and open to the public, likely sometime in 2023 (imo at the current rate, probably sometime in the summer or fall of 2023). Update: PAC is currently scheduled to open in September 2023.

After that, 5 WTC will probably start more actively being considered for start of actual construction in (again imo) mid to late 2023 at the earliest. Update: This period for the earliest start of construction seems very likely, there is no sign of any foundation work taking place at the site of 5 WTC currently, although there are less vehicles and trailers on the site than last year.
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  #702  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2023, 11:16 AM
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Lightbulb

From this (Frank Gehry) ...


To this ...


'Value Engineering'!!
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  #703  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2023, 12:33 PM
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That's what I call a bullet dodged.

Be thankful.
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  #704  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2023, 3:19 PM
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The last thing Lower Manhattan needed was a hairbrained machination from some trend surfing Deconstructionist starchitect.

Never been a Gehry fan. Never will.
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  #705  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2023, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
That's what I call a bullet dodged.

Be thankful.
To each his own, however the cost saving cubed box with what appears to resemble a 1980s motel bath-tile fasade isn't helping. Think nothing at all or the original Gehrys design would of added more street life to a relatively mundane and brutalist base area around1WTC.

Hope they move forward on 5WTC soon. Its overdue
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  #706  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2023, 8:42 PM
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The architect is quoted as saying "Given the site, we wanted the building to be elegant and respectful. It couldn’t distract from the memorial..."

Gehry would have delivered the exact opposite. His ego would have made preventing that an impossibility.

Anyways, here's a very good interview with the architect from Architectural Record: https://www.architecturalrecord.com/...ng-arts-center
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  #707  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2023, 12:15 AM
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I like Gehry but he wasn't an appropriate fit for a unique site that demands formal restraint as opposed to Gehry's free-form extravaganzas. I think the built REX design is very high quality and may even turn out to be the stand-out building of the complex, depending on how the finishing touches go.

As for 5 WTC itself, I don't like the selected design for a couple of reasons. The curved edges are fine on their own but don't mesh with the hard edges of the other towers. And the offset facade design looks sloppy. I really hate this trend. There are several other buildings that have these messy "offset" facade elements and none of them look good. KPF's Brooklyn Point, Pelli's skinny Centrale tower in Midtown East, and SOM's 101 Warren a few blocks from the WTC are examples of what I'm talking about.
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  #708  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2023, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
The architect is quoted as saying "Given the site, we wanted the building to be elegant and respectful. It couldn’t distract from the memorial..
Elegant?!? It brings to mind thoughts of the Hellraiser cube ...


1WTC is already depressing enough and the base feels like a military fortification, most bystanders dont even walk near as it feels like a special agent is going to pop out and escort you into an unmarked popo vehicle.

We need a performing arts center to bring about a new rebirth and celebrate life, not mourn in depression for eternity while adding more claustrophobia to an already confined space.
Maybe not Gehry but the exterior could of been much better IMO. It is what it is though.
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  #709  
Old Posted May 7, 2023, 12:52 PM
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After not much news since December 2022, signs that 5 WTC design is still being worked on.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/manhattancb...e-agendas.page

Quote:
5/8 Land Use, Zoning & Economic Development Committee – 6:00 PM
Location: Live Remote Meeting - https://live.mcb1.nyc

World Trade Center Site 5 - Presentation by Oluwatobi Jayesimi, AVP Real Estate + Community Relations, Empire State Development
https://tribecacitizen.com/2023/05/0...omment-page-1/

Quote:
5/8 Land Use, Zoning & Economic Development Committee – 6p
World Trade Center Site 5 – Presentation by Oluwatobi Jayesimi, AVP Real Estate + Community Relations, Empire State Development
THIS IS WORTH HEARING, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE DEMANDS TO MAKE THIS 100 PERCENT AFFORDABLE
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  #710  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 8:02 AM
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https://www.ebroadsheet.com/completely-unacceptable/

Quote:
‘Completely Unacceptable’
May 7, 2023 By Matthew Fenton
Local Leaders Slam Decision to Move Ahead with Mostly Market-Rate Housing at World Trade Center Site

A phalanx of Lower Manhattan elected officials and community leaders are condemning the announcement by the administration of Governor Kathy Hochul that residential development at Five World Trade Center (5WTC) will move ahead with only a slight increase to the State’s original commitment for affordable housing at the site, while also reducing how affordable those apartments will be by boosting tenant’s income limits.

The controversy focuses on a plan, approved in 2021 by the Port Authority and the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation (LMDC), to erect a 900-foot-plus tower on the publicly owned vacant lot that occupies the three-quarter-acre block bounded by Greenwich, Albany, and Washington Streets, and Liberty Park. That plan originally called for a 78-floor building, including 69 floors of rental units, comprising 1.2 million square feet of residential space. Of the 1,200 apartments planned for the structure, 25 percent (or 300 units) were initially slated to be permanently affordable homes, set aside for households earning an average of 50 percent of the area median income (AMI), or below $66,700 for a family of four.

Since this original plan was announced, a chorus of leaders have called for a greater percentage of the units in 5WTC to be reserved for people unable to pay unregulated, market rents.

Under a revised version of the plan unveiled Wednesday at a meeting of two government agencies overseeing the project—the Empire State Development Corporation (ESDC) and LMDC—the number of affordable units at 5WTC will increase to 30 percent (360 apartments), but income limits will rise to an average of 85 percent of AMI, or $113,390 for a family of four.

At the ESDC/LMDC meeting, State officials argued that increasing the number of affordable units at 5WTC beyond the new threshold of 30 percent would require massive subsidies. The presentation by ESDC staff indicated that increasing the total affordable units to between 35 and 50 percent (or 420 to 600 apartments) would require a subsidy between $58 and $500 million, depending on the income limits imposed on the tenants. They then announced that ESDC was moving ahead with the revised plan by seeking legal, regulatory, and financial approvals, with a timeline that will aim to lock in these proposed terms by next April.

Elected officials and community leaders who have been working for two years to formulate a way to increase affordability at 5WTC (see rendering) reacted with fury. “It is completely unacceptable that these agencies are attempting to move forward with a public approvals timeline without coming to an agreement on how to maximize affordability at the site,” said State Senator Brian Kavanagh. “It is reasonable to expect that public agencies that control a major development site in a community where affordable housing is so scarce would work to provide significantly greater levels of affordability than we might expect from the sorts of deals that have typically been done on private development sites.”

“The current housing crisis in New York City already leaves far too many households unable to pay rent and places huge financial strain on the most vulnerable families,” said U.S. Congressman Dan Goldman. “Access to affordable housing is a lifeline, and is sorely needed in the area surrounding the September 11 site. The Lower Manhattan community, including September 11 survivors and elected officials, have repeatedly stressed the need for maximizing affordability at 5WTC. It is imperative that this project not move forward until there are significant steps to achieving that goal.”

“Ensuring real affordable housing for Five World Trade Center gives us the unique opportunity to give back to the September 11 responders, survivors and their families who have sacrificed so much,” said State Assembly Member Charles Fall. “I strongly oppose any agreement that doesn’t prioritize actual affordability.”

Manhattan Borough President Mark Levine observed, “with Five World Trade, we have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to provide a significant amount of affordable apartments in Lower Manhattan. While I recognize that this project must move forward, I also believe that we cannot undermine this opportunity by imposing a one-year timeframe to maximize affordability. ESDC and the development team must hold off on approvals and work with stakeholders to find the funding that will maximize the number of affordable homes in this project.”

City Council member Christopher Marte said, “it is unacceptable that ESDC would seek approvals for Five World Trade Center when the unanimous call for more affordability on site has not been addressed. There is no reason to move forward now while the State has failed to answer our call to find necessary funds for this essential project. We are asking for a serious commitment from ESDC to find the financing we need, before entering any approval processes. I am confident that a combination of State and City tools can result in significantly more affordable units at lower income brackets.”

Community Board 1 (CB1) chair Tammy Meltzer said, “CB1 doesn’t take rain checks for affordable housing. Punting the conversation to some uncertain date, while moving forward on all the other approvals is tantamount to ESDC shrugging its shoulders. We are not ready to give up and we ask the State to match our willingness to find a solution before proceeding.”

A representative for the Coalition for a 100 Percent Affordable Five World Trade Center, a grassroots community organization pushing for maximum affordability at the site, said, “we are appalled that LMDC would put forth a plan that ignores the community’s needs. This community has fought for over two decades to build fully, deeply affordable housing that would promote diversity and give September 11 survivors and first responders a home in the neighborhood they helped rebuild. The proposed plan is unacceptable both in quantity of affordable units as well as the level of affordability. And it is unacceptable that public agencies effectively wash their hands of any responsibility for the search for and provision of funding for this desperately needed affordable housing.”

The plan approved by ESDC and LMDC is predicated on a policy axiom dictating that any development at the site must generate as much (or more) revenue on a per-square-foot basis as the office developments that have been erected elsewhere within the complex. This arbitrary requirement effectively renders it administratively impossible that 5WTC be dedicated to any public service purpose that does not maximize financial return.

Such a policy is contradicted by multiple other nearby uses. The leases granted by the Port Authority and LMDC to the National September 11 Memorial & Museum, the Ronald O. Perelman Performing Arts Center, and the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church and National Shrine (all located within the World Trade Center complex) rent many acres of publicly owned land—worth hundreds of millions of dollars—at a price of one dollar per year to each of the non-profit organizations that operate those facilities.
https://thevillagesun.com/lack-of-mo...-b-1-advocates

Quote:
Lack of more affordability in 5 W.T.C. project decried by local politicians, C.B. 1, advocates
May 8, 2023

BY THE VILLAGE SUN

Local politicians, Community Board 1 and advocates condemned the state’s decision to proceed toward the development at 5 World Trade Center without securing greater affordability.

State Senator Brian Kavanagh, Congressmember Dan Goldman, Assemblymember Charles Fall, Borough President Mark Levine, Councilmember Christopher Marte and Community Board 1 — all of whom represent the 5 World Trade Center site — along with the Coalition for 100% Affordable 5 World Trade Center, on May 3 unanimously opposed the joint announcement by Empire State Development, the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey that they would proceed toward residentially developing the site without increasing the project’s affordability.

The agencies originally proposed developing a building with 1,200 apartments, 300 of which would be affordable and 900 of which would be market rate. Saying they have identified no new funding source to increase affordability, they are now proposing either to move forward with the original proposal or with an alternative that would include 360 income-restricted units — but with much fewer units affordable to lower-income residents.

Over the past two years, local politicians, the community board and community advocates have urged the agencies to find a way to provide more affordability in the proposed building.

“It is completely unacceptable that these agencies are attempting to move forward with a public-approvals timeline without coming to an agreement on how to maximize affordability at the site,” state Senator Kavanagh said. “It is reasonable to expect that public agencies that control a major development site in a community where affordable housing is so scarce would work to provide significantly greater levels of affordability than we might expect from the sorts of deals that have typically been done on private development sites. I am disappointed that these agencies are now rejecting that premise, and I strongly urge them to reconsider.”

“The current housing crisis in New York City already leaves far too many households unable to pay rent and places huge financial strain on the most vulnerable families,” Congressmember Goldman said. “Access to affordable housing is a lifeline, and is sorely needed in the area surrounding the 9/11 site. The Lower Manhattan community, including 9/11 survivors and elected officials, has repeatedly stressed the need for maximizing affordability at 5 WTC. It is imperative that this project not move forward until there are significant steps to achieving that goal.”

“While 5 World Trade Center is primarily designed to be built as a residential tower, the surrounding community has made its voices heard in making sure there are affordable units,” said Assemblymember Fall. “Ensuring real affordable housing for 5 World Trade Center gives us the unique opportunity to give back to the 9/11 responders, survivors and their families who have sacrificed so much. I stand with my colleagues in government and community partners to strongly oppose any agreement that doesn’t prioritize actual affordability for 5 World Trade Center.”

Borough President Levine said, “With 5 World Trade, we have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to provide a significant amount of affordable apartments in Lower Manhattan. While I recognize that this project must move forward, I also believe that we cannot undermine this opportunity by imposing a one-year time frame to maximize affordability. Empire State Development and the development team must hold off on approvals and work with stakeholders to find the funding that will maximize the number of affordable homes in this project. In doing so, they will win the support necessary to have a successful development.”

“It is unacceptable that E.S.D. would seek approvals for 5 World Trade Center when the unanimous call for more affordability on site has not been addressed,” said Councilmember Marte. “There is no reason to move forward now while the state has failed to answer our call to find necessary funds for this essential project. We are not asking for the potential for more affordability, but for a serious commitment from E.S.D. to find the financing we need before entering any approval processes. I
am confident that a combination of state and city tools can result in significantly more affordable units at lower-income brackets, and I will continue to support the community in their call for a truly affordable 5 World Trade.”

“C.B. 1 doesn’t take rain checks for affordable housing,” said Tammy Meltzer, chairperson of Community Board 1. “Punting the conversation to some uncertain date, while moving forward on all the other approvals, is tantamount to E.S.D. shrugging its shoulders. We are not ready to give up, and we ask the state to match our willingness to find a solution before proceeding.”

In a statement, the coalition said, “The Coalition for 100% Affordable 5 World Trade Center is appalled that the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation would put forth a plan that ignores the community’s needs. This community has fought for over two decades to build fully, deeply affordable housing that would promote diversity and give 9/11 survivors and first responders a home in the neighborhood they helped rebuild. The proposed plan is unacceptable both in quantity of affordable units, as well as the level of affordability. And it is unacceptable that the public agencies effectively wash their hands of any responsibility for the search for and provision of funding for this desperately needed affordable housing.”

Last edited by worldtrade2021; May 8, 2023 at 10:31 AM.
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  #711  
Old Posted May 8, 2023, 8:37 PM
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Boo-hoo. The locals are angry they couldn't turn the WTC into a giant housing project. Let's house the poorest Americans on the most expensive land.

This site is one of the dumbest locations on earth for subsidized housing. Next let's put exclusively low income housing on Rodeo Drive.
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  #712  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 1:48 PM
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https://tribecacitizen.com/2023/05/1...tc-affordable/

Rally today to make 5 WTC affordable





May 19, 2023


Quote:
The local group that is the Coalition for 100% Affordable 5 WTC will rally today, Friday, at 2:30 at City Hall Park in support of making the residential tower being built at 5 World Trade Center 100 percent affordable.

Silverstein Properties is developing the rental building, and the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation recently voted to allow it to go forward at 25 percent affordable out of 900 units. The rest are luxury rentals.

“The LMDC has voted to erect a for profit tower to and for the world’s super rich on public land for the benefit of billionaire private developer Silverstein, practically upon the gravesites of NY’s hero labor class of First Responders & working-class residents,” the coalition wrote. “Time to get real mad NY!”
Quote:
Elected officials, including Congressman Dan Goldman, State Sen. Brian Kavanagh and Councilman Chris Marte, will join the rally. You can read their appeal to the LMDC here; in it they ask the LMDC to seek more sources of funding to increase affordability.

“We’ve made clear that the 5WTC site, public land purchased with public money, should be used for the public good,” the coalition continud. “It should be used to create desperately needed affordable housing from the lowest to moderate incomes, that will also bring social and economic diversity to a community that has lost thousands and thousands of units of affordable housing since 9/11.”
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  #713  
Old Posted May 26, 2023, 10:13 AM
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https://www.thecity.nyc/2023/5/25/23...ing-boost-5wtc

5WTC Gets Affordable Housing Boost But Neighbors Demand Pause for More
Officials give go-ahead for a residential tower with 30% set-aside for below-market rentals, up from previous promise of 25%.



By Gabriel Poblete
May 25, 2023


Quote:
A new tower at the World Trade Center will include 360 affordable apartments under measures approved by two key government bodies — more than previously promised, but short of the 100% sought by advocates.

Developers of the planned 5WTC would set aside 30% of 1,200 apartments as income-restricted affordable housing under measures approved by the boards of the Port Authority and Empire State Development this week.

Previously, the plan called for 25% of the project’s unit to be income-restricted housing. Though it now includes more affordable apartments, the newer plan sets those units aside for households earning more money than in previous iterations of the proposal.

A team led by Silverstein Properties and Brookfield Properties is readying to erect the 900-foot-high building at the southern edge of the complex, which sits on public land — the last empty development site within the World Trade Center campus.
Quote:
Previously, Empire State Development staff had stated that 25% of the units would be affordable within the tower, targeted to households earning between 40% to 80% of the New York City area median income, or between $48,040 to $96,080 for a family of three.

This week, staff from both agencies in their presentations said the area median income (AMI) for the income-restricted units would be 85% on average, with a total range between 60% to 110% of AMI. That’s equal to between $72,060 and $132,110 for a family of three.
Quote:
The 5WTC site is the location of the former Deutsche Bank building, which had been heavily damaged in the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001. The Lower Manhattan Development Corporation (LMDC) purchased the property for $160 million back in 2004 with HUD funds and embarked on the demolition of the building.

As part of a 2006 deal, the LMDC agreed to swap the land where the tower will go up with Port Authority for the area used for the 9/11 Memorial and Museum and the performing arts center that’s slated to open later this year. The money generated from the lease of the site 5 property will go to the Port Authority, which will rake in at least $12.5 million a year once construction finishes according to the terms of the agreement.
Quote:
To state officials, the boost in the number of affordable units is a win, regardless of the income level within the units.

During a Monday board of directors hearing, ESD executive Tobi Jaiyesimi touted the increase to 30% affordable housing units at 5WTC, which she said came after several public hearings with members politicians, the local community board and members of the communities. She added that one-third of the affordable units would be set for people earning no more than 60% of AMI.

“This means that 360 low- to moderate-income earning households will be able to apply to live in Lower Manhattan,” she said.

She also added that while the project will now move forward with 30% affordable units, there is still a possibility for more affordable units “if public subsidy or public source of funding is identified by April 2024.”
Quote:
She shared estimates from the development team for what it would cost to add to the affordable housing: setting aside 37.5% at an average of 80% of AMI would cost an additional $120 million, she said. Getting to 50% affordable units would require a half billion dollars in subsidy.

Jaiyesimi also pushed back on numbers produced by the coalition for a 100% Affordable 5WTC, which had said a 1,600-unit building would require $600 million in subsidy, while a 800-unit one would require $154 million in subsidy. She said the coalition’s proposal did not account for the cost of operating and maintaining the tower in perpetuity, the value of hundreds of Section 8 vouchers that would be leveraged and the $249 million appraised value of the site.
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  #714  
Old Posted May 27, 2023, 6:23 PM
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She also added that while the project will now move forward with 30% affordable units
Please tell me that this means the project is actually moving forward with construction now...

I hold nothing but contempt for those who have held up the process after we've waited decades for 5WTC to be rebuilt.

Quote:
practically upon the gravesites of NY’s hero labor class of First Responders & working-class residents
...especially when they make insulting appeals like these...

The site hosted Deutsche Bank employees. Bankers. None of whom died in the building that day, as far as I'm aware.
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Old Posted Jun 19, 2023, 1:42 PM
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https://nypost.com/2023/06/19/feud-o...dential-tower/

Feud over ‘affordable’ apartments could scuttle WTC residential tower


By Steve Cuozzo
June 19, 2023


Quote:
It’s the make-or-break week for long-planned 5 World Trade Center.

The state’s “obscure” but all-powerful Public Authorities Control Board will vote on June 21 to give final approval for 5 WTC, a mostly residential project of Brookfield Properties and Silverstein Properties.

The development team was chosen by the Port Authority and the Lower Manhattan Development Corp. to build the tower in February 2021.

Approval should be a no-brainer, but a handful of local activists and elected officials hope to torpedo the plan for not having enough “affordable” apartments – which for them would be no fewer than 100%. In other words, a project that would be un-affordable for anyone to build.
Quote:
The 900-foot-tall skyscraper designed by Kohn Pedersen Fox is to rise on the site of the demolished old Deutsche Bank tower at the corner of Greenwich and Albany Sts., south of the main World Trade Center complex.

It’s to have 1.2 million square feet of apartments; 190,000 square feet of offices; a 12,000 square-foot community space operated by the nonprofit Educational Alliance; 55,000 square feet of public space; and 7,000 square feet of stores.
Quote:
Some 30% of the apartments, or 360 of 1,325, would be affordable rentals – up from previously planned 25%, a recent change the developers agreed to in response to local sniping.

A spokesman for the developers called the project “an unprecedented opportunity to address the housing crisis facing Lower Manhattan and the entire city.”


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  #716  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2023, 1:50 PM
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This is such a stupid saga. What reasonable person thinks it's appropriate to insist on any affordible housing here let alone 100%? The entitlement is nauseating.
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  #717  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2023, 2:28 PM
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This is such a stupid saga. What reasonable person thinks it's appropriate to insist on any affordible housing here let alone 100%? The entitlement is nauseating.
Agree. 30% is more than generous. 100% or adding 500-600 more units would not even remotely address the city's housing crisis as one spokesperson claims. If they were really interested in addressing it, they would prepare a land use study of all of NYC and be willing to grant exemptions for bonus affordable housing units for undeveloped and redeveloped. But as we saw with the Howard Hughes Seaport project, there were arguments and lawsuits over the Howard Hughes proposal, and an opportunity for more affordable units was squandered because of complaints about the project being too tall and big.
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  #718  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2023, 3:08 PM
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I think it'll end up getting approved. Its more than enough in terms of affordable and a welcomed edition to the area. Might be Steve Cuozzo being dramatic as he tends to be.

As we've learned with One45 in Harlem, sometimes not approving something that is added value, can mean nothing rises. Better to have something of added value rise than nada... zero... squat poop.

Considering the area, 30 percent of units being affordable, considering the AREA... that is a win.
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  #719  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2023, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I think it'll end up getting approved. Its more than enough in terms of affordable and a welcomed edition to the area.
I hope so, I guess construction can commence within the next year or so on this if it does?

Anyone else wondering why the f*ck they would want to put affordable housing at the WTC site?

There are places for affordable housing, sure, and we need more of it, but this is not one of them. This should be a building for global billionaires lol.
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  #720  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2023, 12:14 AM
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The New York Lion The New York Lion is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 118
Huge day tomorrow.

The meeting and vote is at 2 pm ET.

I believe it will be live streamed.

I believe it will pass and this baby will start to rise.
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"Could I begin life again, knowing what I now know, and had money to invest, I would buy every foot of land on the Island of Manhattan." -John Jacob Astor
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