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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 6:31 PM
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Urban cul-de-sacs

This is a pretty random topic but a friend used to live on a street like this and it does have a unique vibe compared to a typical through-street. The street naturally feels more intimate with car activity toned down to a bare minimum, and if narrow enough (as this one was), people tend to walk in the street and let their kids play. I guess this is why suburban cul-de-sacs are generally coveted but here you're in an urban environment with commercial streets not far away. A pretty sweet setup, I think. Perhaps crime might be a concern for some...?

Anyway, does your city have streets like this?

A few examples:


https://goo.gl/maps/YeNoztcv6KzXDiw7A


https://goo.gl/maps/s1zg7yN1MxJMUxv16


https://goo.gl/maps/uiAM2Z8P7EgYmZM88
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 6:36 PM
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as long as ped and bicycle connectivity isn't interrupted, this seems fine to me.

i've seen it done on various side streets around chicago, but it's by no means the norm here, where the VAST majority of residential side streets go through.

i'm generally in favor of anything that makes driving more annoying for drivers.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 6:46 PM
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The first example above terminates like this so there is some through-way but the second and third are hard stops (a cemetery for the second and someone's car port for the third). I personally don't find this a problem - it's just a slightly different way of navigating in and out than we're used to. And I imagine most streets like this tend to be short.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 6:56 PM
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^ i thought you were talking about examples of side-streets that were former through streets that were then intentionally "cul-de-saced" to prevent automobile through traffic while preserving ped and bike connectivity.

here's an example of the above in my neighborhood: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9779...7i13312!8i6656

but like i said, these are very much the exception in chicago, not the rule.



as for a street that dead-ends into a cemetery? not much you can do about that on the connectivity front.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ i thought you were talking about examples of side-streets that were former through streets that were then intentionally "cul-de-saced" to prevent automobile through traffic while preserving ped and bike connectivity.
No, I can't think of any like that. Toronto isn't that progressive. My guess is most of these examples are a result of victorian-era developers trying to maximize available land while dealing with constraints (like cemeteries, railroad tracks, industrial lands, etc).
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  #6  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 7:40 PM
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I can think of a a bunch of urban cul-de-sacs. Some of these were created with the construction of a freeway plowing through established areas and some were created to stop traffic from cutting through a residential neighborhood.

Stops traffic from cutting through the neighborhood: https://goo.gl/maps/rK7XEZWXefBGD2b2A
https://goo.gl/maps/spHKMi6FgL2K3pv48
https://goo.gl/maps/YNyrEa8KQoe5PJKw5
Freeway cut through the neighborhood, bike lane created for pedestrians to use and find a pedestrian overpass to cross the freeway. https://goo.gl/maps/JY856FwZNUKcfyiu9
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 7:53 PM
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Stockholm has a fair few of these due to the hilly, rocky terrain. They often terminate in staircases, which are sometimes built into/through buildings:



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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 8:09 PM
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I found a few in a rare neighborhood of post-war bungalows in Highland Park, MI: https://goo.gl/maps/u82NMpZcHaUXbj55A
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shappy View Post

Where I come from we call that a dead end! Anyway, I was going to say I remembered some dead end streets like that around Sherbourne in Toronto, so I looked that up on the map and...well whad'ya know?!
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 9:37 PM
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They're all over the place in LA in hilly areas. I do like seeing them in more urban areas outside their typical suburban subdivision context.


https://goo.gl/maps/LVPqtTz1TM5urFRRA


https://goo.gl/maps/JFyeKFSRQtekrK529


https://goo.gl/maps/fncqEgZEYa8cTW4s7
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
Where I come from we call that a dead end! Anyway, I was going to say I remembered some dead end streets like that around Sherbourne in Toronto, so I looked that up on the map and...well whad'ya know?!
Cul-de-sac is just real-estate-agent-speak for a dead end, because no one wants to live on a dead end street .
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 10:02 PM
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San Francisco's Chinatown has quite a few pedestrian allies and cul-de-sacs like this:


https://www.instantstreetview.com/@3...ua7kKMERQ3o_Lg


https://www.instantstreetview.com/@3...3QVCJ_W5-rFGKA
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badrunner View Post
Cul-de-sac is just real-estate-agent-speak for a dead end, because no one wants to live on a dead end street .
I lived on a few of those growing up, but they always had circular ends so cars could turn around. Fancy dead ends, if you will. Suburban "Courts." Both in Texas and Ontario.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shappy View Post
The first example above terminates like this so there is some through-way but the second and third are hard stops (a cemetery for the second and someone's car port for the third). I personally don't find this a problem - it's just a slightly different way of navigating in and out than we're used to. And I imagine most streets like this tend to be short.
I stayed with some people in Harrow-on-the-Hill outside London whose street just abruptly ended like that at the base of the hill in the name of the town. The famous boys school was up that hill. The nice thing about H-o-t-H was it had pedestrian walkways back behind all the houses that cut right through and led straight to the Tube station to London. I've also seen those dead-stop streets in Paris.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badrunner View Post
Cul-de-sac is just real-estate-agent-speak for a dead end, because no one wants to live on a dead end street .
I think the language distinction can be important though.

In chicago, any old side-street like those in the OP's that just dead ends into a park, or a rail ROW, or a cemetery, or whatever would never be called a "cul de sac", just simply a "dead end street".

Now, over the past several decades in chicago, we have seen some examples of former side-streets that went through that have been intentionally closed-off on one end to car traffic and given a circular turnaround (while preserving ped and bike connectivity). Those are referred to as a "cul de sac".
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
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Those are referred to as a "cul de sac".

Zat eez ze fency Fraynch tairm foor "Noo egzeet!"
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 10:36 PM
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Cul-de-sacs definitely aren't the same thing as dead ends. A normal sized car should be able to enter/exit a cul-de-sac without needing to perform a sharp u-turn or three point turn.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 10:41 PM
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Zat eez ze fency Fraynch tairm foor "Noo egzeet!"
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Those are referred to as a "cul de sac".
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
Zat eez ze fency Fraynch tairm foor "Noo egzeet!"
I wasnt gonna say it ... but if we are talking terminology, then for the record, the plural is "culs-de-sac"
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2021, 10:49 PM
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If we're getting technical here, no more eating beef (boeuf)--just dead cow.
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