Winnipeg Construction X

[Hecate]

The reality is… is that 80% of people would choose to live in detached single family homes if they could. People want privacy, they don’t want to listen to their neighbours shitting while living in a shitty stick frame apartment where you can’t have your tv too loud cause you might piss someone off. People want small yards and gardens and space to store shit like a boat or a camper. It’s really not hard to understand. Every single one of my neighbours including myself are helping people out who live in apartments or condos. All of us storing peoples boats, cars, campers, quads, bikes, extra furniture, boxes of stuff from people living their urban dream in Winnipeg. I haven’t bought vegetables for three months. I like that… I’m still harvesting potatoes beets carrots and parsnips.

[davequanbury]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

And the woke lefties give their take….of course oblivious to the economics..

Hey! I am left-handed. How did you know?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by WildCake

The economics make sense only for a private developer of SFHs.

Cities lose out on the long run when SFHs are built and need the level of service for a city. It doesn't matter if its what most people want, allowing it to happen to the scale that it is right now is a losing proposition for Winnipeg and most other North American cities. If there is no supply available, these newcomers will find alternative housing to meet their needs.

Bolded, I agree!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Hecate

The reality is… is that 80% of people would choose to live in detached single family homes if they could. People want privacy, they don’t want to listen to their neighbours shitting while living in a shitty stick frame apartment where you can’t have your tv too loud cause you might piss someone off. People want small yards and gardens and space to store shit like a boat or a camper. It’s really not hard to understand. Every single one of my neighbours including myself are helping people out who live in apartments or condos. All of us storing peoples boats, cars, campers, quads, bikes, extra furniture, boxes of stuff from people living their urban dream in Winnipeg. I haven’t bought vegetables for three months. I like that… I’m still harvesting potatoes beets carrots and parsnips.

Do you and your neighbours run an unlicensed mini storage facility in your yards?

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Fargo doesn’t have the same social problems we have here in our downtown core and if they did would come up with solutions unlike here where anything goes, lawlessness prevails and our neutered politicians stick their heads in the sand!

And defined shopping area in downtown Fargo is a bit of stretch…

Fargo also doesn't have the population as Winnipeg.
Fargo also doesn't have the aboriginal population Winnipeg has, I believe Winnipeg has the highest Aboriginal population in North America. This is racist. It's a fact and people need to understand this is a reason for the change from the 80's to now. 80's the Aboriginal population in Winnipeg was I believe 25000, it's now closer to 125000. This was before the mass migration from reserves to Winnipeg.
People forget the reason most Aboriginal young people left the reserve was to get away from abuse etc. Sadly that didn't turn out as well as they thought. Those same people who abused them on the reserve just moved their business here. Drugs , prostitution etc. In fact it was easier to do in Winnipeg then the reserve. And now we have a city that has at last police count 20 Aboriginal Gangs . That's alot sorry to say. Those gangs don't care if you are white or black or Aboriginal. You are just a dollar sign to them. That's the sad part.

It's time we stopped comparing this city to others and keep asking why it's so much crime here. It's staring you in the face. Clean up these fkn Gangs and you'll see our Aboriginal population rebound. Leave the Gangs run this city and you will never see the the Aboriginal peoples succeed. No matter how many urban reserves you make. It's just lipstick on a pig.

What's the incarceration population in Stoney? I know. 70% Aboriginal. Can you do the math here ?????? Now go to Fargo. Find the nearest prison and see who the majority is .

And before you get all excited , especially our northern Aboriginal poster here. I'm also Aboriginal. So chill. I'm stating facts that too many are afraid to state and rather look the other way.

Things that can help right away.

Change the fkn criminal code.
When in prison or jail and you serve more then 5 years. Make ( force ) them to take courses and don't lock gang members up with other gang members FFS. I've talked to members and said they learned more gang related shit in prison then they did outside.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Fargo doesn’t have the same social problems we have here in our downtown core and if they did would come up with solutions unlike here where anything goes, lawlessness prevails and our neutered politicians stick their heads in the sand!

And defined shopping area in downtown Fargo is a bit of stretch…

Fargo also doesn't have the population as Winnipeg.
Fargo also doesn't have the aboriginal population Winnipeg has, I believe Winnipeg has the highest Aboriginal population in North America. This is not racist. It's a fact and people need to understand this is a reason for the change from the 80's to now. 80's the Aboriginal population in Winnipeg was I believe 25000, it's now closer to 125000. This was before the mass migration from reserves to Winnipeg.
People forget the reason most Aboriginal young people left the reserve was to get away from abuse etc. Sadly that didn't turn out as well as they thought. Those same people who abused them on the reserve just moved their business here. Drugs , prostitution etc. In fact it was easier to do in Winnipeg then the reserve. And now we have a city that has at last police count 20 Aboriginal Gangs . That's alot sorry to say. Those gangs don't care if you are white or black or Aboriginal. You are just a dollar sign to them. That's the sad part.

It's time we stopped comparing this city to others and keep asking why it's so much crime here. It's staring you in the face. Clean up these fkn Gangs and you'll see our Aboriginal population rebound. Leave the Gangs run this city and you will never see the the Aboriginal peoples succeed. No matter how many urban reserves you make. It's just lipstick on a pig.

What's the incarceration population in Stoney? I know. 70% Aboriginal. Can you do the math here ?????? Now go to Fargo. Find the nearest prison and see who the majority is .

And before you get all excited , especially our northern Aboriginal poster here. I'm also Aboriginal. So chill. I'm stating facts that too many are afraid to state and rather look the other way.

Things that can help right away.

Change the fkn criminal code.
When in prison or jail and you serve more then 5 years. Make ( force ) them to take courses and don't lock gang members up with other gang members FFS. I've talked to members and said they learned more gang related shit in prison then they did outside.

[biguc]

If SFH living were as universally desirable as some of you think, Manhattan would be famous for its cheap rent.

It's a moot point, anyway. We're talking about SFH zoning, not building SFH. These are two different things. If there's demand for SFH, developers can build SFH on over-zoned property. We don't need a legal intervention to make that happen.

Making it illegal to build anything but SFH strangles development potential and permanently beggars the city.


Here's an example of a street I found on a long Covid walk that illustrates how development works without SFH zoning.

This street is in a very gradual transition from SFH to dense, mixed use. There are single family homes, there are duplexes and triplexes, there are apartment buildings--all on the same footprint (if you turn the streetview 180 degrees, you'll see a larger-footprint, Bauhaus-era apartment siedlung). As demand for housing in the area has increased, the market has been free to respond. Property owners make money, developers make money, people get places to live, the area scales up from sleepy suburbia to vibrant neighbourhood, city tax revenue increases--win, win, win, win, win.

[pegcityboy]

Great post highwayman! Your bang on !

[trueviking]

^ sounded pretty racist to me.

You guys talk about downtown like its Mad Max Beyond the Thunderdome FFS.

The biggest issues are the empty office buildings, low population density, and 50% of the land being used to store cars on. You think Winnipeg is the only city on the continent with poverty challenges?

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by biguc

If SFH living were as universally desirable as some of you think, Manhattan would be famous for its cheap rent.

It's a moot point, anyway. We're talking about SFH zoning, not building SFH. These are two different things. If there's demand for SFH, developers can build SFH on over-zoned property. We don't need a legal intervention to make that happen.

Making it illegal to build anything but SFH strangles development potential and permanently beggars the city.


Here's an example of a street I found on a long Covid walk that illustrates how development works without SFH zoning.

This street is in a very gradual transition from SFH to dense, mixed use. There are single family homes, there are duplexes and triplexes, there are apartment buildings--all on the same footprint (if you turn the streetview 180 degrees, you'll see a larger-footprint, Bauhaus-era apartment siedlung). As demand for housing in the area has increased, the market has been free to respond. Property owners make money, developers make money, people get places to live, the area scales up from sleepy suburbia to vibrant neighbourhood, city tax revenue increases--win, win, win, win, win.

that is a great example of a transitioning street.

an example of a mixed-density street closer to home....go for a walk down one block of Dorchester.
small apartment blocks on every corner, a 25-unit mid-block apartment, two duplexes, a four-plex, several single-family homes, new and old. A beautiful street character.

https://goo.gl/maps/CoeFN5urVxa4ZFAZ9

now compare that block to a typical single family only block.

each of these images represents 300,000 sf of land area.

The mixed-density block has 180 homes on it.
The single-family block has 30 homes.

[trueviking]

and because of that mixed-density, when you turn the corner on that block you get this....grocery, bookstore, hardware store, restaurants.....

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Hecate

The reality is… is that 80% of people would choose to live in detached single family homes if they could. .

if people were forced to pay the actual cost of single-family housing developments, many more would choose otherwise. Instead we feed the pyramid scheme.

[trueviking]

a little comparison of the street character for fun.

i cringe when I hear boomers talking about how everyone wants to live in a house, like it's nothing but desire that weighs into the decision. If you can't afford a half million-dollar house, you can't live in many neighbourhoods in the city....your children can't go to good schools, develop diverse friend networks...you have less access to employment and amenities which are disproportionately located in wealthy SFH only neighbourhoods....we relegate anyone who can't afford a house to living on big streets away from livable neighbourhoods....it makes me furious....its such a privileged viewpoint.

[pegcityboy]

Love the Corydon area pictured above my neck of the woods and great street character , actually my sisters house is in the 2nd picture !

[dmacc]

Poverty and crime are outcomes in every jurisdiction. Just because indigenous make up a disproportionate amount of that population doesn't mean that if they did not exist that there would be no problem. Our system would just have created other poor people and criminals.

Winnipeg is a slow growth city that doesn't have a particular industry that it leads the country in growth on. Cities like Toronto and Calgary (Pre Pandemic) have been able to look better because there is much more capital bringing in talent and diluting the per capita crime and poverty stats.

Winnipeg sees much more emigration of its talent and therefor what remains is a greater % of crime and poverty. This coupled with the immigration of indigenous people from reserves created somewhat of a refugee situation that was just ignored for decades. So the outflow of talent and the influx of people in crisis has created a difficult social imbalance.

I don't know what the solution is but I don't think deferring blame is it.

[post_man]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Our system would just have created other poor people and criminals

Yes, however, one cannot ignore the fact that there has been a generations-long systemic effort to make and keep specifically the indigenous people of Manitoba at a disadvantage, socially and economically.

[P&M40BELOW]

Originally Posted by trueviking

^ sounded pretty racist to me.

You guys talk about downtown like its Mad Max Beyond the Thunderdome FFS.

The biggest issues are the empty office buildings, low population density, and 50% of the land being used to store cars on. You think Winnipeg is the only city on the continent with poverty challenges?

That’s not poverty driven. The proximate cause is much deeper than that. There are a lot of fairly poor new Canadians who face a lot of challenges that don’t turn to street crime.

[trueviking]

^ there are a lot of Indigenous people who do not turn to crime.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by post_man

Yes, however, one cannot ignore the fact that there has been a generations-long systemic effort to make and keep specifically the indigenous people of Manitoba at a disadvantage, socially and economically.

This is a Canada wide issue that affects Manitoba the most because we have the highest share of Indigenous people as our population. I think Indigenous groups are somewhere close to 20% of our total population now.

Originally Posted by trueviking

^ there are a lot of Indigenous people who do not turn to crime.

That is very true. From my anecdotal experience Indigenous people are very kind and respectful people who are also very hard working. The unfortunate reality is that while many do not turn to crime our Indigenous population is the most likely to have to deal with violent crime. The gang culture that Highwayman pointed out is also a symptom of Indigenous youth predominantly in the North End not having the resources to act like children because the schools are underfunded, the libraries operate on limited hours, community and rec centres haven’t seen improvements in decades, and of course the main issue is the inner city being completely disregarded in favour of suburban sprawl in Southwest Winnipeg. When you factor in going on Selkirk Ave and see half the storefronts vacant and broken glass what hope do the youth exactly have that things are going to be fine? Anytime I go near North Main I just feel heartbroken. How many times do we have to hear a 13-14 year old committing crimes until enough is enough? How many times do I have to see the 7th largest city have the 2nd most homicides in the country on any given year only behind Toronto?

The most unfortunate part of all this is that the North End (and West End if we’re going to have this conversation) SHOULD be a great place to live. It’s primarily on a grid, walkable for Winnipeg standards, decent amount of corner stores (although vanishing because of our stupid zoning codes), and easy access too employment. However, we can’t disregard the very real social issues in the area and label it as racist to discuss. Again, I want to reiterate that I have lived in the North End, and actually try to get experience the culture and cuisine because some of the food in the area is absolutely phenomenal and ethnic grocers are hard to beat.

The unfortunate reality is that the safety issues are real, and if you live in an area where its NOT safe to go out at night what message are we sending to said population? This is also not indicative of the whole inner city because it’s quite easy to walk at night at Saint Boniface, Wolseley, and the Village. We as a city have to understand what revitalization efforts can be done because these issues have been plaguing Downtown for years but choose to be ignored by suburbanites in Charleswood who want “to fix the roads.”

The more I think about it I’m starting to realize amalgamation might have been quite a big mistake for Winnipeg. Sure we as a city might have gotten more tax revenue, but it came at the cost of extending our services to nearly every nook and cranny inside the perimeter increasing each of our tax burdens and stretching our services thin. If Winnipeg kept its old boundaries maybe we wouldn’t be talking about the city being broke every year and more concerted efforts would have been made to keep our inner city in better condition.

[biguc]

I can see the temptation to reduce safety problems in Winnipeg to a gang problem. Sweep away the gangs and the problems go with.

It's not that simple.

Exactly that happened in 2010-2011. The result was increased gang violence as new players clashed to fill the void left by the swept up gangsters. Nature, as it were, abhors a vacuum.

The solution, instead, is to fill that vacuum with real institutions. This is not that simple.

I've been lucky lately to be reading a lot about the origins of LA gangs for a project that's only tangentially related. There's a lot of good scholarship going back to the '60s on what gangs are and how they develop. Gangs are essentially proto states; they stand in for a state's official institutions when those institutions break down or otherwise fail a community. (I recommend reading James Diego Vigil, for the curious).

LA's case is surprisingly similar to Winnipeg's. Each is a wild-west city with an indigenous society summarily ignored by the settler population that established Anglo institutions. In both cases, the settler institutions established a long-term pattern of attacking, excluding, and displacing the indigenous populations, rendering the institutions untrustworthy and unreliable to those populations. And both cities have used urban sprawl to balkanize the city into zones with official or unofficial institutional control.

The result, in both cases, is a population that establishes its own institutions. These institutions are raw, unsophisticated, and often not allowed any legal legitimacy, driving them to conflict with each other and official institutions.

This is avoidable. This is why reconciliation is important.