Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW)

[fanofYOW]

"Those pressures are why experts say WestJet is focusing heavily on Alberta, while Air Canada is prioritizing markets in the east, such as Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa."

What exactly is AC prioritizing in Ottawa? I hope Porter obliterates them here. At least for the NA market for the time being.

[Tesladom]

"The airport said it has year-round daily non-stop flights operated by Air Canada between Halifax and London Heathrow, the largest hub airport in the United Kingdom.

The airport said peak summer travel will be supported by additional flights between Halifax and Frankfurt offered by Condor and Eurowings Discover. The companies will each offer three non-stop, weekly flights."

Yeah.... and we get ZERO!

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

"Those pressures are why experts say WestJet is focusing heavily on Alberta, while Air Canada is prioritizing markets in the east, such as Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa."

What exactly is AC prioritizing in Ottawa? I hope Porter obliterates them here. At least for the NA market for the time being.

Yeah that is horrible journalism letting that comment stand.

It's hard to see how Porter obliterates them here. Air Canada is vulnerable on International for sure where Porter has no ambitions. Other profitable routes that others tried to pick off like Vancouver they have put back on the schedule. Porter needs to add a new route to make AC think twice. What would they do if Porter did San Francisco for example.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yeah that is horrible journalism letting that comment stand.

It's hard to see how Porter obliterates them here. Air Canada is vulnerable on International for sure where Porter has no ambitions. Other profitable routes that others tried to pick off like Vancouver they have put back on the schedule. Porter needs to add a new route to make AC think twice. What would they do if Porter did San Francisco for example.

100%. Maybe direct flights out of YOW to places like SFO is the kick in the a** AC needs to take us as a market seriously. Apparently 60+ daily pre-pandemic flights to hub airports isn’t important enough. I still think though direct options with Porter at reasonable fares will take over the AC YOW-YYZ connecting route. It could be what big Ottawa based corporate bases have been waiting for. They’ve said time and time again that connections and travel time deters their ability to recruit.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

"Those pressures are why experts say WestJet is focusing heavily on Alberta, while Air Canada is prioritizing markets in the east, such as Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa."

What exactly is AC prioritizing in Ottawa? I hope Porter obliterates them here. At least for the NA market for the time being.

AC is prioritizing flight to YYZ in Ottawa. Not much else really.

Personally I think AC Will fight Porter on routes out of YYZ, but will concede them YOW. The struggle for Porter will be convincing bureaucrats and MPs to switch, as they will do whatever it takes to fly on AC to get their precious Aeroplan points and status.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by roger1818

AC is prioritizing flight to YYZ in Ottawa. Not much else really.

Personally I think AC Will fight Porter on routes out of YYZ, but will concede them YOW. The struggle for Porter will be convincing bureaucrats and MPs to switch, as they will do whatever it takes to fly on AC to get their precious Aeroplan points and status.

Maybe Porter will give them incentive to switch? For sure big companies will value the direct options as they have said they’ve struggled to recruit because of all the layovers and flight time.

[YOWflier]

Porter will need to strike a balance between offering a viable alternative to AC/UA (i.e. compete on certain existing routes), and innovating with new nonstops. A solid network will be needed to get people to jump *A ship.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

Porter will need to strike a balance between offering a viable alternative to AC/UA (i.e. compete on certain existing routes), and innovating with new nonstops. A solid network will be needed to get people to jump *A ship.

Well with five route announcements for YOW in December, they're laying the foundation. The YQT route at twice daily is the one that really sticks out for me. At 2x daily, that has be laying the groundwork for a substantially larger YOW base with future connections as the O&D on the route is probably enough to support 1x daily...especially with F8 also flying 7M8s twice weekly this summer.

Speaking of Porter, tomorrow's the big day with the arrival of PD 155 at 0800 from YYZ and departure of PD 156 for YYZ at 0920.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Well with five route announcements for YOW in December, they're laying the foundation. The YQT route at twice daily is the one that really sticks out for me. At 2x daily, that has be laying the groundwork for a substantially larger YOW base with future connections as the O&D on the route is probably enough to support 1x daily...especially with F8 also flying 7M8s twice weekly this summer.

Speaking of Porter, tomorrow's the big day with the arrival of PD 155 at 0800 from YYZ and departure of PD 156 for YYZ at 0920.

I'm just wondering what the purpose of the YQT route is other than the O&D you mentioned. For the E2s, would that not be too much of a backtrack for them as most of the E2's would be headed West-bound? Considering WS takes them to YWG. For Dash-8's, they already are funnelled through YTZ. Am I missing something?

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I'm just wondering what the purpose of the YQT route is other than the O&D you mentioned. For the E2s, would that not be too much of a backtrack for them as most of the E2's would be headed West-bound? Considering WS takes them to YWG. For Dash-8's, they already are funnelled through YTZ. Am I missing something?

Well the new YQT-YOW & YOW-YQT flights will already connect to and/or from some of the YOW-east and YOW-transborder flights, plus YYZ for those crazy few. For a route coming from YQT, correct most of the connections will not be to backtrack. Future connections will probably include the likes of YYT and Florida.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Maybe Porter will give them incentive to switch? For sure big companies will value the direct options as they have said they’ve struggled to recruit because of all the layovers and flight time.

You don't understand how bad a lot of politicians and they're staffers are. These people get substantial discounts on VIA. They'll talk about the environment by then fly to Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City from Ottawa.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I'm just wondering what the purpose of the YQT route is other than the O&D you mentioned. For the E2s, would that not be too much of a backtrack for them as most of the E2's would be headed West-bound? Considering WS takes them to YWG. For Dash-8's, they already are funnelled through YTZ. Am I missing something?

Furthermore to what Dominion301 pointed out, I am sure that YQT-YOW does have a significant O&D base, but Porter also sees an opportunity to connect people via YOW. It will also give folks in YQT more options (varying departure times from YQT instead of only the flights to YTZ).

For example, if you are a YQT originating passenger, and want to go to Halifax, Boston or even NYC (EWR), the straight distance via YOW is shorter for both YHZ and BOS. In fact, the difference to EWR is not much either.

So the YQT route opens up O&D passengers, as well as giving folks in Thunder Bay more options to get to more places.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You don't understand how bad a lot of politicians and they're staffers are. These people get substantial discounts on VIA. They'll talk about the environment by then fly to Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City from Ottawa.

In fairness, if you ae going to Toronto or Quebec City for a day of meetings, flying is currently the only choice. I don't think that there is a lot of flying to Montreal.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by phil235

In fairness, if you ae going to Toronto or Quebec City for a day of meetings, flying is currently the only choice. I don't think that there is a lot of flying to Montreal.

Not so sure I agree with that. Flying requires you arrive early, go through security, checking baggage, landing, getting your baggage (if it's even there) and then having to get from the airport to (probably) downtown.

With trains, it's downtown to downtown service, other than Ottawa where the train station is still closer than the airport.

Even if flying has a slight time advantage (if flying through Billy Bishop, that time advantage is probably higher), environmental considerations should take precedent.

Not expecting politicians, or anyone really, to ride the train to Winnipeg, but in the Quebec City-Windsor corridor, flights should be the last resort, and straight up banned once the HFR is operational.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Not so sure I agree with that. Flying requires you arrive early, go through security, checking baggage, landing, getting your baggage (if it's even there) and then having to get from the airport to (probably) downtown.

With trains, it's downtown to downtown service, other than Ottawa where the train station is still closer than the airport.

Even if flying has a slight time advantage (if flying through Billy Bishop, that time advantage is probably higher), environmental considerations should take precedent.

Not expecting politicians, or anyone really, to ride the train to Winnipeg, but in the Quebec City-Windsor corridor, flights should be the last resort, and straight up banned once the HFR is operational.

They aren't checking bags. Via also requires arriving 30 minutes early. In many cases the destination is not downtown at least on the Quebec and Toronto sides. Their ridings/homes and events are spread out and could be closer to Pearson than downtown. Maybe we can set up the incentives we want to and let people make their own choices. Maybe we can make our MPs suffer even more than we do but shaming people doesn't seem like an effective strategy. Bigger threat to Via though less carbon impact is the return of busses. $40 to Toronto is stealing back the student and price sensitive market.

[YOWflier]

Irrational heavy-handedness has no place in democratic governance. Thankfully, current directives for travel (public service at least) state that the mode of transport should be selected “based on cost, duration, convenience, safety and practicality.” It should stay that way.

Wouldn’t surprise me that politicians and staffers march to a different drum beat. If anything, they should be forced to align with the directives that govern the grunts.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by phil235

In fairness, if you ae going to Toronto or Quebec City for a day of meetings, flying is currently the only choice. I don't think that there is a lot of flying to Montreal.

Let's be honest. The vast majority of travel, especially for politicians and staff, is not same day out and back. It's usually returning to the riding for a few days or weeks with the opening and closing of parliament.

They fly because they want the perks and the status. Doesn't have much to do with time sensitivity. And it's particularly galling because they get larger discounts at VIA than the rest of us. The exceptions do stand out. I remember seeing Jack Layton and Olivia Chow on VIA 1 all the time.

I am not suggesting at MP from London or Windsor or Saguenay take VIA. But from the GTA or Quebec City? I think it's a reasonable expectation. Especially from the mostly red team that talks a lot about climate change and is actually attempting to limit public service air travel over climate concerns.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Not so sure I agree with that. Flying requires you arrive early, go through security, checking baggage, landing, getting your baggage (if it's even there) and then having to get from the airport to (probably) downtown.

With trains, it's downtown to downtown service, other than Ottawa where the train station is still closer than the airport.

Even if flying has a slight time advantage (if flying through Billy Bishop, that time advantage is probably higher), environmental considerations should take precedent.

Sometimes people really do need to go up and back in one day, and it's not a slight time advantage in the case of Toronto. It's really not possible to take a train from Ottawa to Toronto for a one-day meeting, as that is 10+ hours of travel time alone, and the earliest you can arrive is noon. On the other hand it is entirely possible to catch a 7 am Porter flight, be downtown Toronto by 9:30, and come back late afternoon.

I agree that environmental considerations should be part of the equation, but as noted, there are times when practicality has to take precedence.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Let's be honest. The vast majority of travel, especially for politicians and staff, is not same day out and back. It's usually returning to the riding for a few days or weeks with the opening and closing of parliament.

They fly because they want the perks and the status. Doesn't have much to do with time sensitivity. And it's particularly galling because they get larger discounts at VIA than the rest of us. The exceptions do stand out. I remember seeing Jack Layton and Olivia Chow on VIA 1 all the time.

I am not suggesting at MP from London or Windsor or Saguenay take VIA. But from the GTA or Quebec City? I think it's a reasonable expectation. Especially from the mostly red team that talks a lot about climate change and is actually attempting to limit public service air travel over climate concerns.

I think that if you look at most politicians' schedules, there is more time sensitivity than you are suggesting.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by phil235

I think that if you look at most politicians' schedules, there is more time sensitivity than you are suggesting.

For Ministers sure. For the average backbencher? Not as much.

But also, it's not just the pols. All kinds of staffers too. I get it, this is one of those perks of the job. They get to feel important flying everywhere and sitting in the Maple Leaf Lounge. Doesn't make it any less hypocritical or wasteful.