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  #2601  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2018, 2:05 AM
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We just need their promo videos to be some kind of weird sequence with people talking in reverse and we're all set!
That gum you like is going to come back in style.
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  #2602  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2018, 3:37 AM
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Originally Posted by pianowizard View Post
Is it known whether some of the units are for sale?

UPDATE: *Sigh*, they are super expensive:

https://www.onebennettpark.com/condo/availability

I was hoping for a fairly small unit, like 700 square feet.
It's half renters half owners, and owners will have separate amenities, entrance, etc. to make sure they don't have to fraternize with those filthy residents paying ~4-17k per month

However truthfully, I totally get the aspect of building a community
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  #2603  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2018, 8:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BonoboZill4 View Post
Very expensive... Why would someone even rent at that price? Might as well just own.

It all looks very nice though!
1) Better alternative uses of capital than Chicago real estate (which is generally not a rapidly appreciating asset).

2) Monthly cost may still be lower than owning an equivalent property.

$4800/mo for a two bedroom is expensive for Chicago, but not shockingly so for a prime market. At a 5% cap rate that would work out to $1.15 million as the value of the unit, which again isn’t crazy for a two bedroom in such a prime building.
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  #2604  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2018, 1:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
$4800/mo for a two bedroom is expensive for Chicago, but not shockingly so for a prime market. At a 5% cap rate that would work out to $1.15 million as the value of the unit, which again isn’t crazy for a two bedroom in such a prime building.
Actually, there are 1 bedroom places for around that much in the same place, so yeah..
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  #2605  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2018, 1:25 PM
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I think a good comparable would be 465 N Park. That building was built the same time and just recently opened a block away from this property. A 1-bed there goes for around $3.75/SF ($2,500/mo)which I think is market rate for new product in this neighborhood. $4,000 - $4,500 for a unit a block away is nuts! But some people aren’t as price conscious and don’t mind overpaying for their housing even though us common folks might find it crazy. Of all buildings in that neighborhood, I would choose Optima Signature... close to the same prices as 465, but really nice amenities. It would be a great place to live. Unfortunately I couldn’t justify paying that much for monthly rent...
     
     
  #2606  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2018, 7:36 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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"us common folks"

Or just people who aren't stupid enough to dump that kind of money on a rental. You could afford to purchase a unit in the Hancock where the lowest units are above the highest apartment in OBP for those prices. My mortgage taxes and insurance payment is less than half that for an entire 2 flat in Logan square with 5 beds and 3 baths...

That's just stupid behavior, the nightlife and bars are better out by me anyhow.
     
     
  #2607  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 2:42 PM
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
There's a difference between thinking something is expensive and thinking something is ridiculously/over priced. Like a $3500/mo 1 bedroom apartment to me is not terribly expensive if I'm in NYC, but in Chicago I'd think it's ridiculously priced even if I don't think it's "expensive." At least in 2018.

These units are extremely overpriced - that is a fact. It doesn't matter what you personally think is expensive and not expensive. It matters what other apartments in the area cost of similar size and similar quality. Even if you argue the quality is better here, it's not "over $1000 more expensive than the most expensive rental building in town" quality.
If the units rent - they are not overpriced. The market will determine whether or not they are priced accordingly. I bet they rent with no issue at this price point.
     
     
  #2608  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
"us common folks"

Or just people who aren't stupid enough to dump that kind of money on a rental. You could afford to purchase a unit in the Hancock where the lowest units are above the highest apartment in OBP for those prices. My mortgage taxes and insurance payment is less than half that for an entire 2 flat in Logan square with 5 beds and 3 baths...

That's just stupid behavior, the nightlife and bars are better out by me anyhow.
Certainly there are a large amount of people who can afford $10,000/mo.in rent and not even remotely impact their financial well being...many people can't find enough ways to spend their interest their assets earn them. I know several people like this.
I know you know this, but the typical person looking to rent in OBP has no interest in living in Logan Square, and probably vice versa.
     
     
  #2609  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
If the units rent - they are not overpriced. The market will determine whether or not they are priced accordingly. I bet they rent with no issue at this price point.
Whether units rent or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether the units are overpriced relative to 99.9% of the buildings in the area (and the entire city of course). These units are overpriced plain and simple relative to nearly every other rental in the entire city. It doesn't matter if they rent or not.

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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
Certainly there are a large amount of people who can afford $10,000/mo.in rent and not even remotely impact their financial well being...many people can't find enough ways to spend their interest their assets earn them. I know several people like this.
I know you know this, but the typical person looking to rent in OBP has no interest in living in Logan Square, and probably vice versa.
Affording something and actually going through with paying for it are two completely separate things. I can afford the rent of a 1 bedroom at OBP, but it doesn't mean I'm about to do it. Just because you can afford something doesn't mean you automatically are going to do it. Many people could afford what you say, but it means nothing in the end unless they actually pay for it.

I have family and friends who are UNHW individuals ($30M+) who live in fairly humble situations, but they choose to invest/spend their money elsewhere like funding other companies (VC/angel investing), buying other property as investment, nice vacations, etc. This idea that just because you have a ton of money that you have to spend a ton on your own housing is ignorant. Only someone new to money or someone who hasn't actually been around people who have real money for a long time would actually think this way.

Of course, this is much different than $4000-$5000 per month - you don't have to be even close to rich to afford that. The point is though that just because you can afford $5000 per month doesn't mean you need to. If you're making a few million per year let's say, then sure - but at that point, I'd expect you to buy something unless you know your living situation is fairly short term (a year or less).
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Last edited by marothisu; Nov 23, 2018 at 3:13 PM.
     
     
  #2610  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BonoboZill4 View Post
I would imagine not until a single resident moved in, wouldn't make sense to waste thousands of dollars lighting something up until then from the developer's perspective. Maybe they'll test it out soon though. We'll need some snoopers to keep an eye out
There are units available as of now seems like some people are already moving in or will be soon.
     
     
  #2611  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 3:31 PM
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Whether units rent or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether the units are overpriced relative to 99.9% of the buildings in the area (and the entire city of course). These units are overpriced plain and simple relative to nearly every other rental in the entire city. It doesn't matter if they rent or not.
Actually it has everything to do with whether the units are overpriced or not. If the developer rents the units at the prices they are asking, I don't think they will think they overpriced the units.


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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Affording something and actually going through with paying for it are two completely separate things. I can afford the rent of a 1 bedroom at OBP, but it doesn't mean I'm about to do it. Just because you can afford something doesn't mean you automatically are going to do it. Many people could afford what you say, but it means nothing in the end unless they actually pay for it.

I have family and friends who are UNHW individuals ($30M+) who live in fairly humble situations, but they choose to invest/spend their money elsewhere like funding other companies (VC/angel investing), buying other property as investment, nice vacations, etc. This idea that just because you have a ton of money that you have to spend a ton on your own housing is ignorant. Only someone new to money or someone who hasn't actually been around people who have real money for a long time would actually think this way.

Of course, this is much different than $4000-$5000 per month - you don't have to be even close to rich to afford that. The point is though that just because you can afford $5000 per month doesn't mean you need to. If you're making a few million per year let's say, then sure - but at that point, I'd expect you to buy something unless you know your living situation is fairly short term (a year or less).
I'm not sure what you are arguing...I understand this - but it is all relative. You don't get to dictate what is overspending. Somebody out there thinks spending $1000 month on an apartment is crazy, even if they can afford it. Somebody out there thinks spending $1500 on an apartment is crazy even if they can afford it, and so on...get it?
Everybody has different needs, and depending on a situation, purchasing property can be a stupid move. Everybody has a different budget, and there will always be somebody who thinks someone else spent too much. We are lucky to live in a city that has something for everyone.
     
     
  #2612  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 3:54 PM
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Maybe part of their strategy is to overprice it to create a status-symbol type feel? Like a designer handbag for thousands of dollars, it is overpriced but flying off the shelves for the affluent or people who want to appear to be more affluent than they are... This is not my area of expertise, just enjoying the debate and trying to think through it.
     
     
  #2613  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
Actually it has everything to do with whether the units are overpriced or not. If the developer rents the units at the prices they are asking, I don't think they will think they overpriced the units.
The only way you'll know it was fairly priced or overpriced is what happens to the price after awhile. You cannot tell this right away before any leases have been signed. If prices start coming down, you'll know it's overpriced.

And relative to everywhere else in town (other than say 61 E Banks and maybe the Chestnut Row Homes), it's overpriced relative to other buildings for sure. Things of similar quality are still much cheaper.



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I'm not sure what you are arguing...I understand this - but it is all relative. You don't get to dictate what is overspending. Somebody out there thinks spending $1000 month on an apartment is crazy, even if they can afford it. Somebody out there thinks spending $1500 on an apartment is crazy even if they can afford it, and so on...get it?
Everybody has different needs, and depending on a situation, purchasing property can be a stupid move. Everybody has a different budget, and there will always be somebody who thinks someone else spent too much. We are lucky to live in a city that has something for everyone.
This was not my point at all. If someone wants to overspend, that's their choice. This had nothing to do with my point at all. Your statement:

Quote:
Certainly there are a large amount of people who can afford $10,000/mo.in rent and not even remotely impact their financial well being...many people can't find enough ways to spend their interest their assets earn them. I know several people like this.
Yes, there's numerous people who can afford $10,000/mo in rent and not impact their financial well being. Completely, but your whole point is basically predicated on that fact that these people, because they can afford it, will go and spend it. My argument had absolutely nothing to do with whether they should overspend or not. It's all about your statement implying that people with these types of situations would automatically spend it just because it's available, which is false.

I don't think the rental portion of this is going to bomb, but I'll put money on it not getting full unless they lower the price a little.

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Maybe part of their strategy is to overprice it to create a status-symbol type feel? Like a designer handbag for thousands of dollars, it is overpriced but flying off the shelves for the affluent or people who want to appear to be more affluent than they are... This is not my area of expertise, just enjoying the debate and trying to think through it.
Yes - that was my thought on the other page as well. With that being said though, who rents as a status symbol? Maybe the condo units could be seen as a status symbol, but renting? Not sure about that..
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  #2614  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 4:42 PM
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Uh yeah, anyone who can "easily afford" $10k/mo rent better just need temporary housing if they are going to rent. Again, there's being able to afford something and wanting to treat yourself and there's "literally flushing money down the toilet" which is what long term rental at these prices is regardless of how much money you have. With that level of resources you should be able to locate and afford a much nicer unit for the same price.

I have a feeling a lot of the super high tier apartments in Chicago are in fact leased by people who are only here for a year for work or something. Those who are renting units like this longer term and could afford more are not likely to stay that wealthy for long if those spending habits extend elsewhere.

My wife works at a wealth management firm where the minimum investment is $25 million. They frequently have to "fire" clients when their holdings drop below the minimum because they blow their money on stupid shit. Usually it's the second generation kids who only know how to spend and not how to make money who do this, but just because you have a shit ton of money doesn't mean you can't blow it all quickly...
     
     
  #2615  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 5:01 PM
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Uh yeah, anyone who can "easily afford" $10k/mo rent better just need temporary housing if they are going to rent. Again, there's being able to afford something and wanting to treat yourself and there's "literally flushing money down the toilet" which is what long term rental at these prices is regardless of how much money you have. With that level of resources you should be able to locate and afford a much nicer unit for the same price.

I have a feeling a lot of the super high tier apartments in Chicago are in fact leased by people who are only here for a year for work or something. Those who are renting units like this longer term and could afford more are not likely to stay that wealthy for long if those spending habits extend elsewhere.

My wife works at a wealth management firm where the minimum investment is $25 million. They frequently have to "fire" clients when their holdings drop below the minimum because they blow their money on stupid shit. Usually it's the second generation kids who only know how to spend and not how to make money who do this, but just because you have a shit ton of money doesn't mean you can't blow it all quickly...
That's my thought as well regarding shorter term. My guess would be someone making decent or better money moving to Chicago and wants to take a few months to locate a property to buy. They might rent for a little bit but definitely not long term. $4700 per month will afford you around a $1M mortgage FYI.

It is usually the people who are new to having money who are dumb with it and flush it down the toilet, or just ones who think they have to spend it because they don't know there's a balance between saving, investment, and spending. Usually people with actual money do not stick out with a sore thumb in public . One of my co-workers retired at the end of last year - he had $15M- $20M he earned himself by investment and wanted to do his own thing - he's only 30 years old. He looked like the poorest person in our office. He lived the most minimalist life ever too. If you're worth $5M or $10M even, it's definitely not enough to live however you want. You can live comfortably, but I find that peoples' notion of money is like 40+ years old when $1M was actually a good chunk of money. If your net worth is in the hundreds of millions or better, then sure - that's way different than $5M.
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  #2616  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 5:44 PM
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The only way you'll know it was fairly priced or overpriced is what happens to the price after awhile. You cannot tell this right away before any leases have been signed. If prices start coming down, you'll know it's overpriced.
Disagree, rental markets are cyclical, if they sell out the rental portion then it wasn't overpriced. What happens in 2 years (or whenver) isn't relevant to todays prices...Also, you say we will only know if it's overpriced is after awhile, but you also just proclaimed these apartments as overpriced.

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And relative to everywhere else in town (other than say 61 E Banks and maybe the Chestnut Row Homes), it's overpriced relative to other buildings for sure. Things of similar quality are still much cheaper.
Perhaps, I don't know, I'm not an expert in luxury highrise apartments in Chicago - my only point is, if the project sells out, then it's not overpriced. Nothing more. Nothing less.


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Yes, there's numerous people who can afford $10,000/mo in rent and not impact their financial well being. Completely, but your whole point is basically predicated on that fact that these people, because they can afford it, will go and spend it. My argument had absolutely nothing to do with whether they should overspend or not. It's all about your statement implying that people with these types of situations would automatically spend it just because it's available, which is false.

I don't think the rental portion of this is going to bomb, but I'll put money on it not getting full unless they lower the price a little.
You're overthinking this...my point is what is expensive to you or I, may not be perceived as expensive to someone else. So yes, someobdy with with a UHNW may not drop what they perceive as a lot of money on an apartment, but what is consider "a lot" to them may be vastly higher than what we think is. To me, $10K on housing (whether rental or own) isn't THAT expensive....$10K per month is like a $1.8M mortgage + taxes in Chicago, if someone put 20% down, that's like a $2.2M home, in Chicago, that exists in spades.
     
     
  #2617  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 8:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
Disagree, rental markets are cyclical, if they sell out the rental portion then it wasn't overpriced. What happens in 2 years (or whenver) isn't relevant to todays prices...Also, you say we will only know if it's overpriced is after awhile, but you also just proclaimed these apartments as overpriced.
Right, except for if in 4 months after opening if they lower the prices a bit, you'll know it was overpriced. Who mentioned 2 years? It wasn't me.

Again, I'm talking about relative to the rest of the market. You're talking about something else. It's overpriced relative to the market regardless of whether it sells out or not. It's an outlier. Just because you have people to pay for these prices doesn't mean it fits into the standard deviation and is considered normal at all.

Quote:
You're overthinking this...my point is what is expensive to you or I, may not be perceived as expensive to someone else. So yes, someobdy with with a UHNW may not drop what they perceive as a lot of money on an apartment, but what is consider "a lot" to them may be vastly higher than what we think is. To me, $10K on housing (whether rental or own) isn't THAT expensive....$10K per month is like a $1.8M mortgage + taxes in Chicago, if someone put 20% down, that's like a $2.2M home, in Chicago, that exists in spades.
I still don't think you're understanding my point. Everything you're talking about is what people can afford. This is different from what people will pay for, and there's a few factors to think about when talking about what people will pay for.

Let's think about this another way - computers. Let's say the average computer costs anywhere from $400 to $3000 Then I make and sell a new line of computers that costs $8000 - $10,000. Lots of people can afford it. Will they though? Just because it's out there and they can afford it, doesn't mean they are going to just run and buy it. That's a ridiculous notion. There's a lot of things to make someone consider that. Is it just that much better quality than the normal $2500-$3000 ones? Will it bring them status? Does it offer them something or allow them to do something nothing else really does that they want to do?

OBP still needs to check those boxes. Yes there are people with money who are dumb who flush it away, but there's still many people with money who are still logical and this applies to them too. Is OBP that much better than the most expensive buildings in town (which are $3000/mo for the same sized unit downtown) that they'll pay for it? Will it bring them status? Does it offer them something no other building really does or can?

Honestly, I don't think any of them are the case. Renting is not going to bring you status either. The rental portion isn't No. 9 Walton, Trump Tower, Vista, or many places in NYC. Buying in the building may give you status, but surely not renting. Status is going to make you probably buy something, not rent it out. Better quality, amenities, etc? I don't really think so based on other luxury apartments I've seen downtown. They will probably go after people moving to town who can afford it but will only do it for a few months up to a year while they find a place to actually buy. It reminds me of what the office at my building in Chicago told me when I was moving out. They told me they get tons of people relocating from NYC and San Francisco who definitely did not do their homework about Chicago markets. They told me they were shocked by this, and how many thought they had to spend X amount of money in Chicago - similar to NYC. When they find out the average prices for certain types of luxury units in Chicago, they're elated and don't go that high usually even though they can afford it.
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Last edited by marothisu; Nov 23, 2018 at 8:54 PM.
     
     
  #2618  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 9:05 PM
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Right, except for if in 4 months after opening if they lower the prices a bit, you'll know it was overpriced. Who mentioned 2 years? It wasn't me.
I still don't think you understand...If they sell out, it's not overpriced, it was priced at what the market will bear. You can say it's more expensive than comparable apartments. We are splitting hairs here...

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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Again, I'm talking about relative to the rest of the market. You're talking about something else. It's overpriced relative to the market regardless of whether it sells out or not. It's an outlier. Just because you have people to pay for these prices doesn't mean it fits into the standard deviation and is considered normal at all.



I still don't think you're understanding my point. Everything you're talking about is what people can afford. This is different from what people will pay for, and there's a few factors to think about when talking about what people will pay for.

Let's think about this another way - computers. Let's say the average computer costs anywhere from $400 to $3000 Then I make and sell a new line of computers that costs $8000 - $10,000. Lots of people can afford it. Will they though? Just because it's out there and they can afford it, doesn't mean they are going to just run and buy it. That's a ridiculous notion. There's a lot of things to make someone consider that. Is it just that much better quality than the normal $2500-$3000 ones? Will it bring them status? Does it offer them something or allow them to do something nothing else really does that they want to do?

OBP still needs to check those boxes. Yes there are people with money who are dumb who flush it away, but there's still many people with money who are still logical and this applies to them too. Is OBP that much better than the most expensive buildings in town (which are $3000/mo for the same sized unit downtown) that they'll pay for it? Will it bring them status? Does it offer them something no other building really does or can?

Honestly, I don't think any of them are the case. Renting is not going to bring you status either. The rental portion isn't No. 9 Walton, Trump Tower, Vista, or many places in NYC. Buying in the building may give you status, but surely not renting. Status is going to make you probably buy something, not rent it out. Better quality, amenities, etc? I don't really think so based on other luxury apartments I've seen downtown. They will probably go after people moving to town who can afford it but will only do it for a few months up to a year while they find a place to actually buy. It reminds me of what the office at my building in Chicago told me when I was moving out. They told me they get tons of people relocating from NYC and San Francisco who definitely did not do their homework about Chicago markets. They told me they were shocked by this, and how many thought they had to spend X amount of money in Chicago - similar to NYC. When they find out the average prices for certain types of luxury units in Chicago, they're elated and don't go that high usually even though they can afford it.
But who are you to say what the price point is that makes something a bad purchase? Your computer analogy is apples to oranges. A better example would be two condos for purchase (vs. Renting)...It happens all the time where somebody buys a condo unit that is an order of magnitude more expensive than comps, or a building (like No. 9 walton) comes on the market and really pushes the price per sq ft of what the city typically offers (this happens in NYC seemingly on an annual basis too), We have just hit that point where (presumably, we'll see) a new building that comes out and pushes the pricing to new highs, then another comes along and matches, and before you know it there are multiple buildings at the OBP price point.

Bottom Line: If OBP apartments sell out at/near the pricing they are asking (which I have a hunch they will) then it wasn't overpriced - If you think it is worth it or not, is your opinion
     
     
  #2619  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 9:30 PM
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But who are you to say what the price point is that makes something a bad purchase? Your computer analogy is apples to oranges. A better example would be two condos for purchase (vs. Renting)...It happens all the time where somebody buys a condo unit that is an order of magnitude more expensive than comps, or a building (like No. 9 walton) comes on the market and really pushes the price per sq ft of what the city typically offers (this happens in NYC seemingly on an annual basis too), We have just hit that point where (presumably, we'll see) a new building that comes out and pushes the pricing to new highs, then another comes along and matches, and before you know it there are multiple buildings at the OBP price point.

Bottom Line: If OBP apartments sell out at/near the pricing they are asking (which I have a hunch they will) then it wasn't overpriced - If you think it is worth it or not, is your opinion
Still not understanding my point at all. I never said it's automatically bad purchase. My whole point, for about the 4th time, is that most people don't just automatically pay more for something just for the sole reason that they can afford it. There are other factors they need to get out of it such as quality, status, etc that make them pay more for something. People pay more for expensive condos because they offer more, are better quality (maybe), and/or they provide certain status that comes with the purchase and address. It's pretty simple, and I think you understand this but for some reason are hung up on something I'm not even saying and you are completely missing the point I'm trying to make.

Is a rental at OBP going to do that? Condos maybe, but not rentals especially considering the high end of rentals in downtown Chicago of fairly similar quality is $1000 - $1700 less. Nobody gets status from renting an apartment, and the quality really isn't that much better than the top of the line places downtown. The location also is not that great in terms of downtown.
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  #2620  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2018, 9:59 PM
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SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 5,991
I almost wonder if they're targeting students with ultra-rich parents for those rentals...
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