Why Montreal is so charming

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Qu'est-ce tu racontes, gros ? J'ai un peu de mal avec ton orthographe du verbe relaxer.

Nan, je vais pas me relaxer. Tu vois ? Du moins pas avant un bon moment...
Je l'ai assez fait jusqu'à présent, à la cool. Perso je suis pas à plaindre, hein, mais je commence à m'inquiéter pour cette société.

Ces choses ne sont pas cool. Faut pas les prendre à la légère. D'ailleurs j'ai un léger soupçon te concernant. Bwahahaha!

C'était une erreur d'orthographe. Ça s'écrit toujours "relaxer" ici aussi.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

That's because of extreme dicks... I'm getting fed up of subsidizing them because the French left wing decided racialism (read racism) was good for their electoral interests.
This whole crap is coming to us from the US far left saying - White heterosexual men are spoiled and guilty of all misery and unhappiness in the world!
Yeah, right... Fuck those US leftists. Who or what do they think they are? Just dicks. I don't care about them.

We have 10 million people out of 67 million living below the poverty line in this country. It pisses me off.

I think I'm going to vote for right-wing Valérie Pécresse to punish naive centrist Macron and the leftists for the harm they've been causing to our country.
I'm not quite sure yet. We'll see what Macron has to suggest, but I bet he's shitting his pants before Pécresse, cause she's some sort of badass French woman.
And he mostly thinks about seducing people anyway, not doing actual useful things for them.
That's the problem with Macron. He wants to be a seducer to anybody, then he's not acting tough enough.

Of course I would never vote for Le Pen or Zemmour, cause those are retarded, frustrated with life and impotent.

So you would still vote for Macron if Le Z makes it to the second round?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The disease has affected Europe too. You sound like many of my German relatives, vowing to vote for the far right because men are supposedly victims of pc culture. Voting for fascists because it's no longer proper to pinch women's behinds or laugh at Muslims.

The world is likely in for a horrible few years. I guess it happens every few generations.

I think you may have a distorted view of who is mostly doing the pinching of women's behinds (and such) in 2021 France.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The disease has affected Europe too. You sound like many of my German relatives, vowing to vote for the far right because men are supposedly victims of pc culture. Voting for fascists because it's no longer proper to pinch women's behinds or laugh at Muslims.

The M.O. of the French far right and of Euro fascists in general isn't limited to simply laughing at Muslims.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nite

Here you go, this is from 3 days ago

• Video Link

Downtown indoor malls seem to all be doing well in the cities where downtown in general is doing well.

Where downtown is struggling, the fortunes of downtown malls generally follow.

So I wonder what that says about the theory that indoor malls downtown sucks the life off of the streets around them.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The disease has affected Europe too. You sound like many of my German relatives, vowing to vote for the far right because men are supposedly victims of pc culture. Voting for fascists because it's no longer proper to pinch women's behinds or laugh at Muslims.

The world is likely in for a horrible few years. I guess it happens every few generations.

Regarding the general point...

The more mainstream politicians and parties are at least partly responsible for the rot as they are either ignoring or pushing back on issues that the public is concerned about and that end up driving these guys.

The people are rarely completely wrong when it comes to these things.

Though yes things can sometimes go tragically awry with the paths they take to address them.

[Razor]

I found Montrealers to be well dressers. Just an observation that I made the last few times that I was there..People, young and old, milling about downtown during the day were dressed up a little more then casual it seemed. Not sure if this is a French Canadian rub, or just a product of being a larger metropolitan area where it's more taboo to go out shopping or out for a casual Saturday lunch downtown while sporting your grubbies.

[MolsonExport]

Montreal is as different from the rest of Quebec as Toronto is from the rest of Canada (you could probably throw in Vancouver vs. BC in a similar fashion). Giant (from a Canadian perspective), dense cities teeming with ethnic and built-form diversity.


As for the lifestyle differences, the devil is in the details (it usually is) yet still quite profound.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So you would still vote for Macron if Le Z makes it to the second round?

Ben oui ! Zemmour, c'est un furieux plein de cynisme. Il ne ferait qu'aggraver notre cas en instrumentalisant les haines qui traversent cette société. En un mot, c'est un extrémiste et il n'atteindra jamais le 2nd tour.

Les extrémistes sont tous les mêmes, hein. De droite ou de gauche, politiques ou religieux, ce sont des gens haineux qui nous foutent le merdier systématiquement.

Moi aussi, je suis favorable à ce qu'on remette de l'ordre et du bon sens dans le bordel, ne serait-ce que pour qu'on ait moins d'incivilités ou de comportements aigris, parfois violents et abrutis ici à Paris. C'est précisément pour ça qu'il faut éviter les extrêmes.

Ce sera donc soit Pécresse, soit Macron s'il veut bien se montrer un peu plus ferme (mais j'en doute). Oublie la gauche même modérée ici en France. Je crois bien qu'ils sont complètement à la masse depuis des décennies.
Je veux dire, j'aime bien leurs pistes cyclables en ville. C'est très gentil pour la bourgeoisie qui vit en centre-ville, mais ça s'arrête là. Ils n'ont pas le courage de faire le nécessaire pour remédier aux incivilités qui pourrissent l'atmosphère quotidienne des citoyens et en particulier celle des plus défavorisés.
C'est tout le paradoxe d'un parti censé défendre les gens en difficulté. Ils ne défendent en réalité que ce qu'ils pensent être leurs intérêts électoraux et ils vont se faire humilier à cette élection.

Voilà. On ne s'attardera pas plus sur la politique parce que ça doit en gonfler beaucoup ici.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Ben oui ! Zemmour, c'est un furieux plein de cynisme. Il ne ferait qu'aggraver notre cas en instrumentalisant les haines qui traversent cette société. En un mot, c'est un extrémiste et il n'atteindra jamais le 2nd tour.

Les extrémistes sont tous les mêmes, hein. De droite ou de gauche, politiques ou religieux, ce sont des gens haineux qui nous foutent le merdier systématiquement.

Moi aussi, je suis favorable à ce qu'on remette de l'ordre et du bon sens dans le bordel, ne serait-ce que pour qu'on ait moins d'incivilités ou de comportements aigris, parfois violents et abrutis ici à Paris. C'est précisément pour ça qu'il faut éviter les extrêmes.

Ce sera donc soit Pécresse, soit Macron s'il veut bien se montrer un peu plus ferme (mais j'en doute). Oublie la gauche même modérée ici en France. Je crois bien qu'ils sont complètement à la masse depuis des décennies.
Je veux dire, j'aime bien leurs pistes cyclables en ville. C'est très gentil pour la bourgeoisie qui vit en centre-ville, mais ça s'arrête là. Ils n'ont pas le courage de faire le nécessaire pour remédier aux incivilités qui pourrissent l'atmosphère quotidienne des citoyens et en particulier celle des plus défavorisés.
C'est tout le paradoxe d'un parti censé défendre les gens en difficulté. Ils ne défendent en réalité que ce qu'ils pensent être leurs intérêts électoraux et ils vont se faire humilier à cette élection.

Voilà. On ne s'attardera pas plus sur la politique parce que ça doit en gonfler beaucoup ici.

Surtout en français! Quoique, c'est vrai que le fil porte sur Montréal. M'enfin...

[Darkoshvilli]

On en finit avec le deraillement du thread hein les boys?

Mautadine!

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Nite

Montreal government is definitely the wilder more creative and adventures of the two. so many times Montreal tries and does stuff that the city of Toronto is too scared to try do to the large amount of nimbys in the city..
Montreal bike infrastructure and pedestrian streets are very good examples of this.

After a staycation in Montreal this summer, I was impressed by their bike network, especially in comparison to the dog's breakfast that's Toronto's network. Actually felt safe biking across most of the central island, and they even plan detour routes if there's construction ahead. The REV on St Denis was a pleasure to ride on and I can't wait to try out the future REV lines.

Instead of the makeshift 'cafe-TO' patios beside giant traffic cones, the Rue Pietonnes (especially Mont-Royal) were much more lively and people friendly. With giant patios going on for blocks on end, it was just a much better atmosphere to linger and chill at the terrasse.

The downtown parks also seem to be in much better shape in Montreal, and they're super busy even at night. Passing by TrinBell everyday it's embarrassing how Toronto can let a destination park be so rundown.

The Metro network is more comprehensive and practical than the TTC in the central city, and love the blue Azur trains with their bright interactive screens. Coming back and riding the TR rockets again felt like a downgrade.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Downtown indoor malls seem to all be doing well in the cities where downtown in general is doing well.

Where downtown is struggling, the fortunes of downtown malls generally follow.

So I wonder what that says about the theory that indoor malls downtown sucks the life off of the streets around them.

In Chicago, pre-Covid at least, the downtown malls were struggling while street-level retail space was doing fine. Americans don't come downtown to shop at a suburban-style mall, they come for an authentic urban experience that you can't get in the suburbs.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by ardecila

In Chicago, pre-Covid at least, the downtown malls were struggling while street-level retail space was doing fine. Americans don't come downtown to shop at a suburban-style mall, they come for an authentic urban experience that you can't get in the suburbs.

If that's true Americans are odd with how they seperate their cities sometimes.

In Toronto you go to the closest mall to your home or work that has the stores you want regardless of where it's located.
No one is going to avoid a mall if it's in the suburbs or if it's downtown. I assume Montreal is the same.

[Minato Ku]

In my opinion, the difference between Toronto and Montreal is that Montreal seems to have its own unique culture while Toronto misses the something else that could help to stand itsef from other North American cities.
Montreal is helped by the fact that it's a big French speaking city in an mainly English speaking continent. So Quebec needed to build its own "universe" to not be completly absorbed over centuries of British dominance.
Add to this, the usual cultural diversity, a signifiant English speaking minority (not just in number but also in power) and it creates an unique environment in North America.

I often feel that English speaking people seems to be suprised by diverse environment where the dominant langage is not English as if it was a requirement for diversity or mixing.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nite

If that's true Americans are odd with how they seperate their cities sometimes.

In Toronto you go to the closest mall to your home or work that has the stores you want regardless of where it's located.
No one is going to avoid a mall if it's in the suburbs or if it's downtown. I assume Montreal is the same.

Yes there are a number of indoor malls along Rue Ste-Catherine and both the malls and the outdoor street itself are healthy.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by ardecila

In Chicago, pre-Covid at least, the downtown malls were struggling while street-level retail space was doing fine. Americans don't come downtown to shop at a suburban-style mall, they come for an authentic urban experience that you can't get in the suburbs.

250,000 Torontonians don't need to travel from suburbia to downtown to shop. They live in downtown Toronto.

[WhipperSnapper]

Quebec City is French. I never really felt that in Montreal despite the hands of government doing everything they can. It's bilingual like Ottawa/Gatineau or New Brunswick.

Toronto certainly has its own identity. No one will confuse it with Jacksonville or most other major league cities also jealous of Jacksonville's towers

I will agree its weird for another language other than English to be the language of communication between different cultural groups having spent so much of my life in lands once occupied by the British Empire and Eastern Europe.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Minato Ku

In my opinion, the difference between Toronto and Montreal is that Montreal seems to have its own unique culture while Toronto misses the something else that could help to stand itsef from other North American cities.
Montreal is helped by the fact that it's a big French speaking city in an mainly English speaking continent. So Quebec needed to build its own "universe" to not be completly absorbed over centuries of British dominance.
Add to this, the usual cultural diversity, a signifiant English speaking minority (not just in number but also in power) and it creates an unique environment in North America.

Even as a Torontonian I'll admit that you're right. There are very few truly bilingual metropoli of 4.5 million + in the world - especially in the developed world - and there is none where English and French interface. And then all of this is happening against a North American backdrop rather than a European or "Global South" backdrop. Montreal is pretty wild when you think about it.

But I wouldn't say Toronto is just another North American city, as if the city is basically a larger version of Grand Rapids or Fort Wayne. I can't really think of another North American city like it, and it's taking your conventional idea of what a North American metropolis should be in strange new directions.

[Doady]

The difference with Toronto is it is mostly post-war, even the central city is basically a giant suburb, mostly built for the car. In contrast, Montreal is a real city, older, built before the car, and maybe that is why Montreal is so charming. Toronto is often compared to other northern US cities like New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, but in reality it is Montreal that has more common with them, while Toronto is more like a Sunbelt city. Toronto is more akin to Los Angeles or Phoenix than to New York City or Chicago. This article explains it pretty well:


TORONTO: LOS ANGELES OF THE NORTH

Flying into Toronto’s Pearson International Airport one could easily get confused. It just plain looks like Los Angeles. There is an impressive downtown area, with towers similar to those found in downtown Los Angeles, but the Los Angeles towers are 20 years newer. It is true that Los Angeles has nothing to rival the CN Tower, nor is there a lake like Ontario, but it is similar nonetheless.

There is Yonge Street in North York, with its towers spread along a strip development that is what downtowns might look like if they had been developed after the car. It is, of course, an open question whether they would have developed at all. Yonge Street looks like Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles, only 40 years younger.

Then there are the slices of suburban Orange County to be found throughout the suburban area, with their five, ten and fifteen story buildings arranged in the fashion of a campus. There are the hundreds of square miles of single-family dwellings, set out on relatively small lots, for as far as the eye can see. Indeed, Toronto suburban densities are lower than those of Los Angeles. It might be better to think of it as suburban Phoenix with snow.

...

http://demographia.com/rac-toronto.pdf