CHICAGO: Transit Developments

[maru2501]

I wish I had a better understanding of who owns which lots. I agree economics will take over eventually

[Steely Dan]

while i'm all for new stations on that underutilized stretch of the green line, a new station at damen/lake will only be marginally closer to the UC's front door than the current IMD blue line stop.

0.38 miles vs. 0.44 miles, respectively, according to google earth. that's only a times savings of roughly one minute at average walking speed (8.8 minutes vs. 7.6 minutes).

that's better than nothing, but the way to really make a proper UC station is to add one at madison on the pink line, as others have mentioned (only 0.20 miles to the UC front door, a 4 minute walk).

[orulz]

Completely agree about Madison on the Pink Line, needs a stop too.

As for the green line, Western probably needs a stop eventually given the bus connection. And given that this area is Chicago's newest boom town, I think another stop between Morgan and Ashland would make sense, too. Perhaps at Elizabeth...

[nomarandlee]

4mins vs. 9mins is a big gap when talking about walking to a game in January and February.

Still, the Damen stop will be a good location to fill in a rather large gap on the Green Line.

[the urban politician]

I think it's about more than just UC. I think the West Loop boom is playing a role in this. My hope is that the city uses this investment to spur more development, particular some moderately dense TOD

[Mr Downtown]

I hope no part of this is being justified as serving the United Center.

The owner of all those parking lots made a choice not to build the United Center close to a transit station. Why should public money now be used to subsidize rides to his sports venue? CTA already runs an express bus right to the door for him.

[IrishIllini]

That stretch of Damen leaves a lot to be desired. North of the tracks seems fairly intact. Most of the buildings have been maintained and there are few surface lots. South of the tracks it totally different. There's some new construction in the area, but there are tons of vacant parcels. It'll be interesting to see how quickly infill occurs. The state of the area around the United Center should be a crime. Anyone know the history of why so much of the neighborhood was leveled? I'm assuming the destabilization of East Garfield Park has something to do with it?

I agree the Pink Line also makes sense. Maybe in the future they'll add a stop at Madison. The West Loop is changing fairly quickly, so I can't imagine why the CTA wouldn't add one at some point.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Still, the Damen stop will be a good location to fill in a rather large gap on the Green Line.

for sure, the fact that there are currently no stops between ashland and freaking california (1.5 miles) is a bit mind blowing. damen and western should absolutely both have stops on the green line.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by orulz

...
And given that this area is Chicago's newest boom town, I think another stop between Morgan and Ashland would make sense, too. Perhaps at Elizabeth...

That's unlikely to happen. If they were going to do anything like that, they would have rebuilt the Halsted stop and added one at Racine. I suppose if things got *really* dense that they might consider one between Morgan and Ashland, but I can't see that happening anytime soon.

But, if we're talking about putting closely spaced stations as infill, a Brown/Purple stop at Franklin/Ohio/Ontario would be useful, too. Walking-wise it's nearly the same distance, only about 10% closer together. There used to be a stop at Grand. The improvement wouldn't be so much for people east of Wells, but it would dramatically improve access to that retail area on Ontario west of Orleans and near Grand and the River.

But neither of those should come before a Brown Line stop at Division. Or even a Brown Line stop at Halsted, for that matter. Heck, for the Near North area, the City should either get serious about a Clinton Street subway or save up for a Red Line station at Clybourn/Larrabee.

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

TThe state of the area around the United Center should be a crime. Anyone know the history of why so much of the neighborhood was leveled? I'm assuming the destabilization of East Garfield Park has something to do with it?

Personally, I thought Western would've been a better choice.
The connectivity is better, the existing structure is massive enough to support a modern station and the CTA already owns land on one of the corners so a large hunk of the elevator placement problem is already solved.
But I'll take what I can get.

[Mr Downtown]

Aren't the 1968 riots on the West Side more relevant than a 1941 survey of how many dwellings lacked indoor plumbing?

[maru2501]

before my brother dumped his bulls season tickets this year I would regularly walk from the ashland green stop.
It is in fact far in the cold

[Steely Dan]

^ as mentioned earlier in the thread, the blue line IMD stop is currently the closest el stop to the UC.

0.44 miles walking distance to the UC vs. 0.64 miles from green line ashland. that's 8.8 minutes walking time vs. 12.8 minutes.

if it's bitterly cold out, those 4 minutes are not inconsequential.

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Aren't the 1968 riots on the West Side more relevant than a 1941 survey of how many dwellings lacked indoor plumbing?

First off, that picture is quite a bit west. Those trees in the distance are in Garfield Park.

Second, if it was only plumbing, half of the city would be labled as blighted. To make it to that distinction 20% of the buildings had to be uninhabitable, 40% substandard and 50% constructed before 1895.

There is a tendancy to look at Madison as it exists today, and imagine it was all burnt down by rioters.

The riots left Madison snaggletoothed, but easily 60% of the structures were still there 5 years Martin Luther King died.

The Madison we see now evolved over the next 10 or 15 years. Fair plan insurance (a byproduct of the riots) sparked an epidemic of landlord lightning.

[ardecila]

I honestly think the new Damen stop is in a more versatile location than a Pink Line stop would be. Within walking distance of the Damen stop is a fairly attractive new mixed-income development (Westhaven Park) and north of Lake is a booming industrial district that's becoming home to thousands of creative-sector jobs.

It's true that the new station offers only the tiniest advantage over taking the Blue Line to Medical District, with the added disadvantage that Green Line service is much less frequent than Blue Line service, and the Green Line doesn't directly connect to many places where fans are likely to board.

If Rahm really wants to provide better transit access to the UC, he should direct CDOT to improve the pedestrian connections between CTA stations and the stadium. A streetscaping or sidewalk widening could be done for far cheaper than the $80M cost of a new station. Right now, the pedestrian paths from the Medical District stop's Damen or Ogden exits are not inviting at all.

A small note in Rahm's statement today mentions that the Damen stop will be "based on" the previous Morgan project. Probably this means the design will be simplified a little bit and recycled, which is fine - it's a gorgeous station. But the Morgan stop also has an auxiliary exit to Sangamon Street. It's possible that the new Damen stop will have a secondary entrance from Wolcott, which is a straight shot to the north doors of United Center along a relatively low-traffic street with landscaped sidewalks. That would only be a 0.26 mile walk.

[Justin_Chicago]

As a long time Bulls season ticket holder, I applaud this move. I walk from the Ashland Greenline stop every game and appreciate the shorter distance in the winter. I personally dislike the IMD Blueline stop because the sidewalks are awful. I probably take that route 20% of the time. Also, I enjoy stopping off at the Morgan stop for a nightcap at Au Cheval.

[Mr Downtown]

^Curious why you don't find the #19 United Center Express bus useful for the trip to the game.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

^Curious why you don't find the #19 United Center Express bus useful for the trip to the game.

speaking strictly for myself, i generally enjoy walking and buses are kinda stupid. i use them only as a last resort.

if the el can get me to within a half mile walking distance of my destination, i'll choose that option almost every time.

[Justin_Chicago]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

^Curious why you don't find the #19 United Center Express bus useful for the trip to the game.

Simple. I leave from my office in the Central Loop or the Redline State/Lake stop on the weekend. In my personal experience, the CTA train is always faster than the express bus with stop lights and traffic around 6-6:30pm. Also, the buses line up after the game and take 5-10 minutes to board people and leave. I can walk to Ashland in the same amount of time and not be packed like sardines. I have been taking Chicago public transit for more years than most and try to avoid buses at all costs if rail is a nearby alternative option. Buses are a last resort for me. I cannot stand bus or light rail systems that wait in line with vehicles at lights. It defeats the purpose of "rapid" public transit in my opinion. I know this is a controversial statement for many people on this board that promote BRT/Light Rail. I feel like you are either 100% in it (invest in heavy rail) or faking it with short-term cheap alternatives (BRT). Rail is a long-term (50+ year) investment that can significantly boost economic activity and residential density if done right. Despite our state political issues, we should view investments in Chicago's infrastructure in the same manner as NYC and the major cities of Europe and Asia. We should not invest in BRT/Light Rail because that is what car-centric cities like Dallas and Denver are doing. A short-term patch with long-term implications. Do not dilute our stature and economic advantages. I spent time in Portland and found it faster to walk around downtown then ride their light rail. I am in Houston for work this week and absolutely hate it. People rarely use sidewalks and have a preference to drive/uber a few blocks to a restaurant.

Sorry for ranting. This is my broad personal view and not directed towards any specific board member.

Health wise, I am in excellent shape and I enjoy walking/exercising if my destination is within a mile...assuming I'm not in a rush. This is why the Ashland stop is not an issue for me. I also like using Divvy for the last leg if I am traveling alone.

I am personally excited for the Damen Green line stop. I think this will continue to increase residential and commercial density along the line. A Pink line would not be advantageous unless a developer purchased the surrounding private parking lots and built flats or mid-rises. I doubt that will happen. There will always be people that pay a premium to drive and park.

[OhioGuy]

An infill station for the green line at Damen makes sense as presumably the popularity of the Fulton Market District will lead to further demands for housing spreading westward. Now when will an infill station happen on the brown line at Division now that adjacent Atrium Village is set to be redeveloped (which I believe takes into account a possible future station?) and lots of additional redevelopment will be occurring in the Cabrini Green area to the west?