Winnipeg Retail

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by Labroco

After 115 years Birks departs Winnipeg…

Birks existed here for "120" Years (1903 - 2023)
Holt-Renfrew was 102 years (1911-2013)
EATONS @ 320 Portage Ave - 94 years (1905-1999)
HBC Downtown in Dept store format since 1881 = 139 years, breakdown
Main St & York ave 1881-1926 = 45 years
450 Portage ave & Memorial. 1926 - 2020 = 94 years
** Interesting note.
94 years is the expiration date on Portage ave for both our former grand ladies.

[WinCitySparky]

Time marches on

[wags_in_the_peg]

Birks closing is not a "Winnipeg" thing. They use to sell fine silverware and extremely high end jewelery and the demand for that is just not there anymore. They closed they Victoria location, where there old ladies who are borderline Royal living there. Ottawa location closed recently

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

Birks closing is not a "Winnipeg" thing. They use to sell fine silverware and extremely high end jewelery and the demand for that is just not there anymore. They closed they Victoria location, where there old ladies who are borderline Royal living there. Ottawa location closed recently

Birks has not closed in Ottawa. There are two Birks stores in Ottawa - Downtown in the Rideau Centre and a suburban location at Bayshore Shopping Centre.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by WinCitySparky

^ Great points, and why the focus should be fully shifted to medium-high density residential, where whatever retail does manage to succeed is built off the consuming population that lives there.

Considering at least three of the past mega projects included significant residential and that failed to really turn things I am not sure that is the answer either.

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I reject the nasty weather argument on the basis that there are places that get fairly cold weather in central Europe that have thriving downtowns. I attribute the difference to culture. Fricken Irkutskt has more pedestrian activity than Winnipeg, and it gets plenty damned cold there. So culture is a big factor. We also have poor planning and zoning. Every street downtown is essentially a stroad. Downtown isn't all that walkable (heck even the exchange isn't aside from smaller segments of it).

Not sure why people say downtown is not walkable as it is very walkable. It is as friendly or more so than some of most high volume pedestrian streets on the global.

It is also notable as a pedestrian in downtown Winnipeg how the level of street activity significantly drops when the weather gets cold. It is such an actual issues that the Garrick theater when it was a movie place had installed heaters in it's awning over the sidewalk out front where patrons would wait to purchase tickets. The other huge issues is when winter gets here the city scraps the streets down to the pavement and often intentionally moves that snow onto the sidewalks. Then when the sidewalks do eventually get cleared they are an ice riddled mess than pale to how the streets and bike lanes have been cleared. Given there is really no other alternative that forces the pedestrians into the street, which is obviously far from ideal.

Originally Posted by Biff

All other streets should be returned to two way streets.

That is pretty close to the worst thing you could do to make downtown more inviting. People here often talk about shifting the focus away from personal use vehicles and changing downtown roads to be two way streets does the exact opposite of that as it puts all the emphasis on convivence of personal use vehicles. With traffic in most of downtown coming from a single direction it actually makes the whole area much more pedestrian friendly as the complexity in predicting traffic scenarios is significantly reduced.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Labroco

After 115 years Birks departs Winnipeg…

Pretty sure Birks fully exited mall locations in Winnipeg and had no presence here for a time then some years later opened the now closed Main St location.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Considering at least three of the past mega projects included significant residential and that failed to really turn things I am not sure that is the answer either.

This like taking the stairs to the 10th floor of a building, then having climbed up three floors, throwing up your hands and grumbling that the steps aren't taking you any closer to your destination and wondering aloud if the staircase even connects to higher floors.

As someone who recently moved downtown, I've personally gone from spending almost none of my money in downtown Winnipeg to almost all of it. No reason to think that this would not be true for most people, and that this will in turn support a more lively retail scene.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Pretty sure Birks fully exited mall locations in Winnipeg and had no presence here for a time then some years later opened the now closed Main St location.

Birks had a steady presence in Winnipeg always.
At 1 time, Birks, besides downtown since 1903... & was in nearly every Major mall...Unicity, Kildonan Place, St Vital, Polo Park... Due to a near bankruptcy issue, it had been sold & many locations were axed in the 90's..
The Birks Building on Portage avenue from 1903 - 1987, then moved to Portage Place main floor neat the Fountains Kennedy seen by the Street entrance...after about 10 years, closed it, that's the company struggled... then for a few years only Polo Park remained as it had for many years, which they then decided to move back downtown to 191 Lombard Avenue.
Yes, some of what made Birks famous for, when they had more location like the 70's thru 90's, they have abandoned. But they still on a smaller scale do business elsewhere. Winnipeg is a tough market. People with money that want luxury goods can not only buy online, often fly to other cities where they know there is a better selection.
High end stores now struggle here. unless A dollar store, low end, last years stock, discontinued, perceived bargain stores..Costco, G Tiger, Wally world.
For stores like Holt-Renfrew, Birks ect.. They, in any other city attract the downtown shopper, often business people & workers. Luxury goods do no longer have a large crowd in Manitoba. That is their base. Since there exists an apathy to shop downtown, even by some of the well to do, sometimes due to lack of safety, Those upscale retailers abandon Winnipeg totally. The thought is, if you can not make a go downtown, then that is not the city to do business in even if in a large city they have a suburban presence.
Most major Canadian cities also have a Harry Rosen downtown for example.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by CoryB

That is pretty close to the worst thing you could do to make downtown more inviting. People here often talk about shifting the focus away from personal use vehicles and changing downtown roads to be two way streets does the exact opposite of that as it puts all the emphasis on convivence of personal use vehicles. With traffic in most of downtown coming from a single direction it actually makes the whole area much more pedestrian friendly as the complexity in predicting traffic scenarios is significantly reduced.

I think we have to disagree here. I think the one way streets make traffic move faster and more difficult for consumers as you need to go around a block if you miss an address. In my opinion on the streets I mentioned earlier - Kennedy, Edmonton, Carlton, Hargrave, Garry and Smith - all which are not thru streets would be perfect candidates for 2 way traffic.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

Birks had a steady presence in Winnipeg always.
At 1 time, Birks, besides downtown since 1903... & was in nearly every Major mall...Unicity, Kildonan Place, St Vital, Polo Park... Due to a near bankruptcy issue, it had been sold & many locations were axed in the 90's..
The Birks Building on Portage avenue from 1903 - 1987, then moved to Portage Place main floor neat the Fountains Kennedy seen by the Street entrance...after about 10 years, closed it, that's the company struggled... then for a few years only Polo Park remained as it had for many years, which they then decided to move back downtown to 191 Lombard Avenue.
Yes, some of what made Birks famous for, when they had more location like the 70's thru 90's, they have abandoned. But they still on a smaller scale do business elsewhere. Winnipeg is a tough market. People with money that want luxury goods can not only buy online, often fly to other cities where they know there is a better selection.
High end stores now struggle here. unless A dollar store, low end, last years stock, discontinued, perceived bargain stores..Costco, G Tiger, Wally world.
For stores like Holt-Renfrew, Birks ect.. They, in any other city attract the downtown shopper, often business people & workers. Luxury goods do no longer have a large crowd in Manitoba. That is their base. Since there exists an apathy to shop downtown, even by some of the well to do, sometimes due to lack of safety, Those upscale retailers abandon Winnipeg totally. The thought is, if you can not make a go downtown, then that is not the city to do business in even if in a large city they have a suburban presence.
Most major Canadian cities also have a Harry Rosen downtown for example.

Edmonton and Winnipeg are the two cities where Harry Rosen is located in a mall rather than downtown. Other cities have Harry Rosen locations both downtown and in suburban malls (except for Ottawa which is downtown only).

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Biff

I think we have to disagree here. I think the one way streets make traffic move faster and more difficult for consumers as you need to go around a block if you miss an address. In my opinion on the streets I mentioned earlier - Kennedy, Edmonton, Carlton, Hargrave, Garry and Smith - all which are not thru streets would be perfect candidates for 2 way traffic.

Ideally on the streets here, two-way traffic, one lane each direction plus parking, create curb bumpouts at intersections, implement other traffic calming measures.

The goal should be making those streets into desinations, not through-fares. The focus on York and St Mary could still be to move traffic to take pressure off of Portage. Graham is already pretty good.

I've been reading a bunch on the topic of streets versus roads. I'm more convinced than ever that we need to calm streets like Osborne, Corydon, and Provencher and other similar streets. We would have to undertake major upgrades to the road network, but the payoff would be worth it on the traffic movement level and the improvement of destination neighbourhoods level.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by Biff

I think we have to disagree here. I think the one way streets make traffic move faster and more difficult for consumers as you need to go around a block if you miss an address. In my opinion on the streets I mentioned earlier - Kennedy, Edmonton, Carlton, Hargrave, Garry and Smith - all which are not thru streets would be perfect candidates for 2 way traffic.

I agree though I believe you meant Fort rather than Smith.

[thebasketballgeek]

There’s also the option of having 1-way streets that are only 1-2 lane for cars + Diamond lane for buses and if you remove street parking could probably add a cycling lane on streets like Donald and Smith.

And instead of the talk of 1-way or 2-way streets it’s time to have the dialogue of having a few car-free streets in the Downtown. There’s the obvious E-W one on Graham when the busses are moved, but Hargrave, Carlton, Edmonton, or Fort could also be car-free N-S streets with minimal disruption in traffic. And the more car-free streets means more space for patios, vegetation, and food trucks which are the elements that help make the core more vibrant.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

There’s also the option of having 1-way streets that are only 1-2 lane for cars + Diamond lane for buses and if you remove street parking could probably add a cycling lane on streets like Donald and Smith.

And instead of the talk of 1-way or 2-way streets it’s time to have the dialogue of having a few car-free streets in the Downtown. There’s the obvious E-W one on Graham when the busses are moved, but Hargrave, Carlton, Edmonton, or Fort could also be car-free N-S streets with minimal disruption in traffic. And the more car-free streets means more space for patios, vegetation, and food trucks which are the elements that help make the core more vibrant.

Sad as it is to say, I think with the city's current state, if Graham became pedestrian-only after the transitway is moved to Portage, I think Graham would feel like a particularly unsafe street to walk down at night.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

Sad as it is to say, I think with the city's current state, if Graham became pedestrian-only after the transitway is moved to Portage, I think Graham would feel like a particularly unsafe street to walk down at night.

Have you walked down Graham at night recently? I was taking a bus after a wrestling event at CLC 2 weeks ago and felt sketched out the whole time. The busses didn’t really make much of a difference when everything is already closed nearby. At this point what ever infrastructure changes we make that become substantial will have a transition period just because of the state we’ve let our DT succumb too. We just gotta bite the bullet and take these chances because the status quo is clearly not the answer.

Maybe those bozos at the WPS should finally try to make the street where their headquarters are located to feel a bit safer.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

I agree though I believe you meant Fort rather than Smith.

Yes, you are right.

[GreyGarden]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

And instead of the talk of 1-way or 2-way streets it’s time to have the dialogue of having a few car-free streets in the Downtown. There’s the obvious E-W one on Graham when the busses are moved, but Hargrave, Carlton, Edmonton, or Fort could also be car-free N-S streets with minimal disruption in traffic. And the more car-free streets means more space for patios, vegetation, and food trucks which are the elements that help make the core more vibrant.

I’m a big fan of these when cycling and pedestrian traffic reach a certain point, but I cannot think of a street in downtown Winnipeg that warrants that kind of treatment. I’m definitely in favour of widening sidewalks, slowing traffic, planting trees and returning to two-way traffic. My favourite streets in Canada still have cars on them, but they’re not 3-4 lane high speed one-way roads. I think that removing cars completely from a downtown Winnipeg street would probably make it feel eerily quiet and unsafe after dark.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

The goal should be making those streets into desinations, not through-fares.

Posts like this one make me wonder if people have even ever been in downtown Winnipeg or if they are just posting based on city planning course they took.

The majority of downtown Winnipeg has very large purpose built buildings filling up large parts of a block. Changing how traffic flows on the streets isn't going to change those buildings or their purpose and somehow magically make them a destination.

And the idea that downtown has nothing but through-fares is also laughable. There are at best 8 streets it downtown that meet that description including Portage, Main, Broadway, Ellice, Smith, Donald and Carlton. Everything else is essentially limited to being only in downtown.

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

There’s also the option of having 1-way streets that are only 1-2 lane for cars + Diamond lane for buses and if you remove street parking could probably add a cycling lane on streets like Donald and Smith.

You describe how most downtown streets already are today. And it was already decided that the downtown bike routes are on Fort and Garry.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by CoryB

You describe how most downtown streets already are today. And it was already decided that the downtown bike routes are on Fort and Garry.

Well if they are already that way what’s the harm in adding a few painted diamonds on a lane and call it a day?

Also, it was decided that the city want bike lanes on Hargrave, St. Mary’s, Graham and Carlton. It’s also inevitable they will have bike lanes on Portage, Osborne, and Main but that’s probably a decade away with how slow progress is in the city. Really they should use the median on Broadway as a bike lane as well that’s an easy one. The one on Fort is also a complete joke so they have to redo it anyway.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Have you walked down Graham at night recently? I was taking a bus after a wrestling event at CLC 2 weeks ago and felt sketched out the whole time. The busses didn’t really make much of a difference when everything is already closed nearby. At this point what ever infrastructure changes we make that become substantial will have a transition period just because of the state we’ve let our DT succumb too. We just gotta bite the bullet and take these chances because the status quo is clearly not the answer.

Maybe those bozos at the WPS should finally try to make the street where their headquarters are located to feel a bit safer.

Yes, I live nearby. It's dodgy. This is I think one of the big takeaways from cities' experience with pedestrian streets, though:

If you build it, they may not come.

In other words, pedestrian-only streets are successful when they take already successful streets and close them to traffic. Making a street that isn't already vibrant pedestrian-only tends to deaden it further.