Washington DC: Rail transit

[N830MH]

Here the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...hKW_story.html

I think it's great news. They are going move forward to start construction on second phase.

[OhioGuy]

^^ Interesting to note from that WaPo article:

The Silver Line’s first leg, expected to be running by August 2013, will pass through Tysons Corner to Wiehle Avenue in Reston. When the entire line — which is being built by the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority — is completed, it will span 23 miles of rail between East Falls Church and Ashburn.

I'm wondering if this is a mistake? Or has the timeline been moved up for the first phase? It was my understanding it wouldn't be ready until December 2013 at the earliest. Or maybe they're just saying the line will be ready for train testing by August 2013, but actual revenue operation won't happen until December 2013?

[afiggatt]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

^^ Interesting to note from that WaPo article:

I'm wondering if this is a mistake? Or has the timeline been moved up for the first phase? It was my understanding it wouldn't be ready until December 2013 at the earliest. Or maybe they're just saying the line will be ready for train testing by August 2013, but actual revenue operation won't happen until December 2013?

You are correct. The current schedule is for the Phase 1 construction to be completed by July/August 2013, then for revenue service to begin in December, 2013. We shall see if WMATA can meet that schedule.

[afiggatt]

Originally Posted by ardecila

What's the latest cost figure on this? I really don't understand why they don't just build the damn thing. It's got to be the most hand-wringing over an infill station I've ever seen.

The decision and analysis on where to place the Potomac Yard Metro station is still in process. Besides the location where the station was originally supposed to go, they are considering 2 other locations closer to the Potomac Yards development. The most aggressive is Alternative D which would have 1/2 mile of new track crossing over the CSX/VRE/Amtrak tracks with the station located much closer to the entire Potomac Yards development.

The decision is coupled, from what I see, to the plans for the Potomac Yards complex, the cost of the alternate station locations, who pays, and to some extent, the route of the Crystal City/Potomac Yards Transitway (or streetcar). I suspect the cost of Alternative D will preclude it being selected. Going to be another year or more before a decision is made. Website for the Potomac Yard station EIS if you want to see the presentations: http://potomacyardmetro.com/index.html

[ardecila]

Wow, every other transit agency would simply build the station and worry about the long pedestrian bridges later, but WMATA has to relocate the whole alignment.

The one good thing I saw in that presentation was that the funding is coming exclusively from developer contributions and some kind of TIF, so it's not like these funds could be repurposed elsewhere. Bad news is that the budget is $240M, so with that much money this planning process could drag on for years. It seems wiser to build a cheap station on the existing alignment and sink the rest of the money into a better transitway for the local service.

[afiggatt]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

I have said this before but I am very mixed about this extension past Dulles. I fully support the extension to Tysons, Reston, and Dulles but I don't see the value of spending $1B - $2B to build this past Dulles. I understand that billions of dollars have already been spent in the expectation of the complete Phase II of the Silver Line and that complex financing agreements might have been jeopardized if Loudon County opposed this.

There are huge unmet capacity needs in the inner counties and the region's core that WMATA should be focused on instead of spending another one or two billion dollars to extend the Silver Line and have stations be surrounded by huge parking garages low/medium-density suburban town centers.

In Northern Virginia alone, the streetcar on Columbia Pike in Arlington, the streetcar connecting Arlington and Alexandria, the Potomac Yards metro station, investments towards high speed rail for the DC - Richmond corridor would have all been better investments than building the Silver line past Dulles.

Only a part of the funding going to Phase 2 would have been available to other transit projects in Northern Virginia. There is no federal contribution for Phase 2; the federal contribution was $900 million for Phase 1 only. The funding for Phase 2 is coming from MWAA drawing on increased tolls from the Dulles Toll Road (54% of Phase 2 funding), MWAA aviation funds ($230 million), Fairfax County (~$500 million), Loudoun (~$270 million), Virginia ($150 million if I understand Phase 1 versus 2 funding breakdown). Fairfax and Loudoun will also be paying for the parking garages at the Phase 2 stations separately ($404 million! Big parking garages are expensive), but not having followed that part much, I would expect the parking garages will be paid for by municipal bonds to be paid off by (projected) parking revenue.

MWAA and Loudoun would not be contributing to streetcar or Potomac Yard projects in Arlington and Alexandria. The airport authority is paying for over 1/2 of the cost of the Silver Line by dinging the Dulles Toll road drivers. Fairfax would likely only contribute to street car projects that extended into Fairfax or Metro improvements that benefit Fairfax. The only parts of the Silver Line funds that might have gone to other DC Metro projects, streetcar projects, upgrades to the RF&P line to Richmond would be the Virginia, maybe part of the Fairfax contributions. The $900 million of federal transit funds would have gone to another transit project elsewhere in the country.

So the Silver Line is not really taking that much funding away from other transit projects in the DC region. The VA DRPT transit six year budget plan has $189 million for the Columbia Pike streetcar and $103 million for the Pentagon City-Crystal City-Potomac Yards transitway/streetcar. The Potomac Yards infill station is supposed to be mainly paid for by the PY developers. Those projects look to have most of their funding lined up regardless of the Silver Line costs.

The DC to Richmond rail corridor got federal HSIPR funding for Tier II EIS and preliminary engineering studies. The reason it did not get more of the $10.1 billion of high speed and intercity passenger rail funds is that the engineering analysis and design work was not ready for the big construction grants.

What the Silver Line project and the current multi-billion 6 year maintenance & repair push may do is create fatigue in planning and getting funding for the next stages in Metro expansions. Whether it is an expensive re-route of the Blue Line through Georgetown to M street to Union Station or extending either the Orange, Blue, Yellow, or Green Lines. Many of the political leaders and media types may want to postpone any serious discussions or first level engineering studies of Metro expansion until after the Silver Line and the big maintenance project are completed and maybe not until after the Purple Line is in advanced construction. If Orange Crush becomes the Rosslyn deep crush, well, they'll fix it eventually - in 15-25 years. We shall see.

[ardecila]

I don't think any of the lines should be extended at this point. Investing in the Long Bridge and more capacity expansion on the NS and CSX tracks could allow for a frequent and useful VRE service to serve outer suburbs with fast travel times.

Coordinated transfers between VRE and Metro would be great; if, for example, the new Potomac Yards station was built straddling the CSX tracks, to allow direct cross-platform transfers.

[afiggatt]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I don't think any of the lines should be extended at this point. Investing in the Long Bridge and more capacity expansion on the NS and CSX tracks could allow for a frequent and useful VRE service to serve outer suburbs with fast travel times.

Coordinated transfers between VRE and Metro would be great; if, for example, the new Potomac Yards station was built straddling the CSX tracks, to allow direct cross-platform transfers.

There will be proposals pushed by the suburban politicians to extend this or that line. Things like extending the Orange Line from Vienna to Rt. 50, Fairfax County Parkway, Centreville. Extend the Blue Line to Lorton or northern end of Ft. Belvoir. And so on. Some will push those plans over capacity expansion in the core.

Extending the Blue Line does not make that much sense to me, because I agree, that replacing the Long Bridge, adding a 3rd or 4th track to the CSX tracks, and expanding VRE to 7 day a week service is more economical. If a line is going to be extended much, it should be only where there are not ROW alternatives for VRE, MARC expanded service.

As far as I know, there are no plans for a Potomac Yards VRE station. Really not needed anyway as it is only a few miles between the Alexandria and Crystal City VRE stations.

The transfer connections at the Alexandria station to the King Street Metro will be greatly improved in the next 2-3 years with the construction of a new pedestrian tunnel under the tracks to the lower level of the Metro station. New elevators and stairs will be installed on the Amtrak/VRE platforms leading to the tunnel. The project is funded. Don't think much can be done for the two Crystal City stations because the VRE platforms are not close to the Metro station entrances as I recall. Walkable transfer, but not a quick one.

[novawolverine]

I don't think the Blue line needs to be extended, either. But, I'd actually prefer that lines expand incrementally rather than with these massive projects added 10 or so miles of track. The Blue line down to Ft. Belvoir, I could get behind, but by the time politicians are done with it, it would be creeping past Lorton and down to Woodbridge where there'd be a ton of distance between stops in a corridor with VRE as it is.

Likewise with the Orange Line. Extending it to Fairfax Corner and Fair Lakes is a no-brainer to me, but it wouldn't end there, we'd have it going all the way to Rt. 28, which is unnecessary, IMO.

Expanding VRE is a no-brainer as well. Having lived in an area with great commuter rail, it's frustrating the mentality that people have in this area with respect to commuter rail vs. metro. I understand there are engineering, fiscal, and logistical issues with commuter rail, but I think there's been a failure to sell people on the benefits of it.

[cambron J]

ardecila
He also insisted on standardizing column spacing to get the greatest savings from prefabrication. A similar approach might have really benefitted in Tysons.

The vast majority of the structural elements are of standard sizes. All of the columns in the three elevated station were space the same distance apart to allow the use of precast platform span beam of the same dimensions. The mezzanine / platform canopies at all 5 station will be identical. Much of the structural steel used in the construction of the mezzanine is of the same dimension.

There were only a had full of different size segments used in the fabrication of the post-tension elevated spans. The column forms are the same size to allow the forms be used multiple times.

[ardecila]

Thanks, and welcome to the forum.

Yeah, I think this kind of standardization is now pretty routine on large projects, but sometimes the engineers make questionable choices.

This is the Miami viaduct I was referring to - I can't imagine an elevated train being more low-impact than this one.

[cambron J]

Both tracks in the elevated through Tysons Corner are predominantly supported by single columns. The other thing you don't see in your Miami viaduct image are the concrete sound barrier parapets. The entire length of all the elevated sections will have them, noise mitigation is a big deal in WMATAland. The cat walks are integrated into the span deck, this is typical of all elevated on WMATA.



If you want to see all of the pictures I have taken of the construction go here:

DCMP 04 18 2009
DCMP 08 02 2009
DCMP 01 02 2010
DCMP 05 07 2010
DCMP 06 23 2010
DCMP 10 23 2010
DCMP 01 15 2011
DCMP 05 07 2011
DCMP 07 27 2011
DCMP 10 15 2011
DCMP 04 15 2012
DCMP 06 23 2012

DCMP Airport Station Renderings and plans of the Airport station

Miscellaneous related DCMP images and graphics
Various other miscellaneous WMATA related images and graphics

Oh, and let's not forget these:

WMATA 106 mile Area Regional Track Schematic Existing system
WMATA 129 mile Area Regional Track Schematic Existing system plus N route Silver line

[ardecila]

Ah, the parapet and catwalk! That's what I'm missing. Looks like the span and structural depth is about the same between Tysons and Miami. Our new-ish elevated structures in Chicago don't have any sound parapet either.

I actually like the massive look for highway medians - it looks fine at East Falls Church - but neighborhoods have different considerations. It's hard to imagine a pleasant urban center springing up around the huge hulking viaduct in Tysons. I hope I'm proved wrong.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Ah, the parapet and catwalk! That's what I'm missing. Looks like the span and structural depth is about the same between Tysons and Miami. Our new-ish elevated structures in Chicago don't have any sound parapet either.

I actually like the massive look for highway medians - it looks fine at East Falls Church - but neighborhoods have different considerations. It's hard to imagine a pleasant urban center springing up around the huge hulking viaduct in Tysons. I hope I'm proved wrong.

Our New Airtrain has a sound wall


Closing in on the bumpy cruves. by Esoteric_Desi, on Flickr

[cambron J]

ardecila
Looks like the span and structural depth is about the same between Tysons and Miami.

Looks to me to be quite the opposite.

The span depth is in the neighborhood of 7', a man can almost stand upright inside the span segments.



I actually like the massive look for highway medians - it looks fine at East Falls Church.

The spans in the VA I-66 flyover are different. They are shallower, they are a combination of precast concrete beams and fabricated steel beams with a poured in place concrete deck on them. . .








. . . Everything in Tysons Corner is post-tension precast concrete. . .






This image was taken 05 07 2011 09:16


This image was taken 05 07 2011 12:30

. . . The spans along the elevated station platforms are shorter and shallower.

[waltlantz]

I understand how Tysons will develop.

What I am failing to see is how vaunted TOD will work in places like Reston, Herndon and beyond with stations in the middle of the Toll Road.

[Nexis4Jersey]

If you cap the Road with a park , then I could see TOD exploding along the corridor...

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by waltlantz

I understand how Tysons will develop.

What I am failing to see is how vaunted TOD will work in places like Reston, Herndon and beyond with stations in the middle of the Toll Road.

I guess it depends on the design of the stations. Median stations require long walks to reach urbanized areas, but is that walk pleasant or not? Does the station connect to the "shore" with a wide, dedicated pedestrian bridge or does it dump people onto the narrow sidewalk of a road overpass? When you exit the station, do you emerge into an urban neighborhood or into an expanse of concrete and asphalt?

Certainly, the time it takes to get from a TOD to the station platform is long, but many cities have deep-level subway stations where the walking time is comparable (it takes a huge amount of time to reach the platforms at Woodley Park, for example). If the new stations are anything like the existing Fairfax station, I don't see why they can't generate TOD.

I think Chicago kinda poisoned the well for median transit - CTA's median stations are terribly designed, even if they might have been attractively minimalist when they first opened. They have tiny, tight little platforms and no protection from the roaring traffic, salt spray, or blasting winds. Stairs, escalators, and elevators are slow, undersized, and overcrowded. Rather than comfortably conveying people to the neighborhoods on the edges of expressways, they exit out onto tiny-ass sidewalks suspended between roaring highway traffic and roaring arterial traffic.

[dgreen]

It's only about 250 feet from the median to the where a bridge would connect to the beginning of any potential TOD development. There's plenty of space for higher density development between Sunset Hills Road and the OD trail on the north side and down to Sunrise Valley Rd on the south side.

It's less than half a mile to the center of Reston Town Center and a more direct walking path would put USGS at just over a half mile walk.

Reston has great potential.

[novawolverine]

There have been ideas floating around to develop the air rights above the toll road and closer to the metro station in Reston. It may or may not happen at some point, but I'd agree that Reston has potential. Having Reston Town Center develop the way it has helps as far as the way people think and they're also thinking about putting bikeshare stations out that way.