Dear New Yorkers..How Do You Rate Other Urban Experiences?

[3rd&Brown]

I'm a Philly native. Have lived in Brooklyn the past ten years (having just returned to Philly). Work in Manhattan still and have worked in a few industries (fashion, consumer products).

I won't speak for all New Yorkers, but what strikes me about New York compared to other cities in the US is not the built environment which is always impressive to outsiders, but rather the people.

New Yorkers make an effort with respect to the way they carry themselves more than any other place I've ever been or lived, and its not contrived in any way. Individuality is celebrated. You can wear literally anything the F you want and so long as you lean into it and put it together, no one will blink an eye at you. Everyone hustles and has an agenda and its a great place to be especially if you're still ascending in your career. People are nice enough, but no one will go out of their way to help you.

Maybe it's because I've worked in fashion and care a lot about art and design, but I very often feel the aura of a place by how it's people dress and carry themselves. In this regard, NY is unmatched.

The point being, density and urbanity are super important to any city, but what attracts me to any city really, is the existance of a notable vibe. It doesn't have to be a NY vibe per se, but just something that is unapologetically and authentically that place.

Through that lens, the only places in the US to me that qualify as having any real authentic and individual vibe are:
NY
LA
Miami
Philly
New Orleans
Austin

There are beautiful cities all over the country that I love to visit: SF, Portland, Seattle, DC, Charleston, Chicago, etc.

But at the end of the day, to a certain extent, they all feel very middle America to me. There's an incredible amount of conformity in most places in America that's simply boring to be immersed in. When I travel, I spend as much time people watching and just hanging out as I do seeing the sites, etc.

SF is a beautiful (albeit not very urban) city with great food and beautiful scenery. And every time I'm there my friends criticize me for putting so much effort into my appearance, which by the way, is not very much effort.

In DC, Boston, and Chicago there is an insane amount of conformity. They're great cities in their own right. I could never live in any of them.

Anyways. That's my take.

If it makes anyone feel any better, there are plenty of things about NY that NYers hate that visitors don't see.

No one has air conditioning. No one has a dishwasher. Most people don't have more than 3 feet of counter space. Laundry isn't a thing unless you live in a posh door man building.

The trash collection schematic is disgusting. Most parts of NY don't have alleys, so trash is seemingly out all of the time. Huge piles of bags lining the streets of even the most posh neighborhoods.

The subway is amazing, obviously. It's still hard as hell to get around NY. There are always detours and delays. It's way bigger than most tourists realize and getting anywhere is very often still a 45 minute subway ride in 2 directions. People are so overscheduled nothing all that spontaneous happens. Ask a friend to dinner and very often it devolves into comparing calendars and making a plan for 3 weeks from today.

And this will be a third rail, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the food in NY (on AVERAGE) is actually quite mediocre. I'm not talking about Eleven Madison Park. I'm just talking about the average restaurant you could walk off of the street to order a sandwich or a simple meal. Or take out from every night. There is a ton of mediocre food in NYC. Ten years of living in Brooklyn ordering from Seamless and never once had edible Indian takeout. Working in the Financial District, 90% of the restaurants are literally garbage.

Obviously, there are still plenty of great restaurants. But more than most are average to below average. The sheer volume of tourists in NYC creates a space for bad food that doesn't exist in other urban centers where more of a restaurants business comes from residents and businessmen.

Anyway. That's my spiel on NY.

As for Paris. I would say, NYers who don't work in fashion love Paris. NYers who work in fashion hate Parisians but love Paris.

[Emprise du Lion]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I suspect you can attribute Chicago's "cleanliness" to its weather. Living in a tent on the sidewalk much of the year in Chicago would be really brutal.

In terms of actual garbage, you have Chicago's alley system to thank. All the dumpsters are hidden, and yes there are actual dumpsters vs just stacked trash bags.

In terms of homeless people, Chicago has plenty, but CPD would never allow them to throw up a permanent tent city in downtown or any of the other bougie neighborhoods. When I lived there it was highly rumored that CPD would load up homeless people from said neighborhoods and dump them in Uptown. Once there they'd start putting tents up under the LSD overpasses in Uptown, and then the city would clear them out by power washing the area on a weekly basis.

Not saying this type of policing is good, but it happens.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by proghousehead

Paris is on par with NYC in terms of urbanity and density. No question. Very approximate urban experience.

NYC has somewhat higher weighted & core density, but, yeah, they're definitely in the same weight class. The main difference is that the Paris core has flatter density, while NYC is quite variable across neighborhoods.

The typical cross-Atlantic comparison is NYC-London, but I feel NYC-Paris is much closer for city feel and local attitude. London is much more organized, polite and buttoned-down, Paris is messy and chaotic like NYC and the people are more fashionable, outrageous and occasionally obnoxious, also like NYC. I feel like I could live almost the same lifestyle in Paris, but London would be an adjustment.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Mother Nature at her finest isn't just about greenery but at the Marin Headlands it's about the interplay of sea, sky and awesome land. And it's not dusty--the dry grass holds the soil in place.

Re. Bay Area scenery, back in college I hiked an amazing state park very close to San Jose, and full of redwoods. It was just a few miles from San Jose. But I can't remember the name.

Would it have likely been Big Basin?

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

And this will be a third rail, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the food in NY (on AVERAGE) is actually quite mediocre. I'm not talking about Eleven Madison Park. I'm just talking about the average restaurant you could walk off of the street to order a sandwich or a simple meal. Or take out from every night. There is a ton of mediocre food in NYC. Ten years of living in Brooklyn ordering from Seamless and never once had edible Indian takeout. Working in the Financial District, 90% of the restaurants are literally garbage.

Obviously, there are still plenty of great restaurants. But more than most are average to below average. The sheer volume of tourists in NYC creates a space for bad food that doesn't exist in other urban centers where more of a restaurants business comes from residents and businessmen.

Anyway. That's my spiel on NY.

As for Paris. I would say, NYers who don't work in fashion love Paris. NYers who work in fashion hate Parisians but love Paris.

its true about the food. we’ll say we have it, and that may be true, but a lot of the average everyday price level food is pretty mediocre. or far flung for the unusually good, like as you say indian.

[proghousehead]

Tons of great Indian/desi especially in Queens and Brooklyn. Just need to know where to look.

Adda for starters.

[aaronevill]

A bit of a contrarian perhaps, but as a resident, NYC feels much smaller to me than other cities. I have lived in DC, Chicago, London, Paris, St. Louis and NYC has always felt the most intimate. Unless on the waterfront, there are no vistas like Chicago or DC. Much less of a feeling of grandeur of London or Paris. NYC is quite utilitarian. However, there is a community. I see the same person everyday in the subway, don't know his name, never spoken, but we are here together. There is more involvement with people...you make your own village.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by aaronevill

A bit of a contrarian perhaps, but as a resident, NYC feels much smaller to me than other cities. I have lived in DC, Chicago, London, Paris, St. Louis and NYC has always felt the most intimate. Unless on the waterfront, there are no vistas like Chicago or DC. Much less of a feeling of grandeur of London or Paris. NYC is quite utilitarian. However, there is a community. I see the same person everyday in the subway, don't know his name, never spoken, but we are here together. There is more involvement with people...you make your own village.

It always felt massive because there are a ton of mini cities in one. Flushing Queens, DoBro, Manhattan, LIC, East NY, the South Bronx, North Bronx... and than if you count the intermingling of the Gold Coast in NJ and Jersey City... it just all feels like multiple massive cities in one. Even Staten Island, adds a flavor to it. Many with their own style and alterations in growth patterns. I think this adds to the scale of grandness. While it might only be 300 square miles, IMO, it feels much bigger due to its lack of mundane character.

Also the fact that sometimes traveling 5-10 miles could be a 2 hour ordeal. Time slows down in NY traffic, sometimes you may not know your name or who you are by the end of it.

I think Queens is a very unrated borough that is essential to the city. Want to talk about diversity and mini cities in just one borough, Queens really makes the NY experience seem dynamic and grandiose.

[chris08876]

Well one positive is that no other city landing compares!

Exhibit A:

• Video Link

Ego shattering for non-NY folks. Full screen a must.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by aaronevill

A bit of a contrarian perhaps, but as a resident, NYC feels much smaller to me than other cities. I have lived in DC, Chicago, London, Paris, St. Louis and NYC has always felt the most intimate. Unless on the waterfront, there are no vistas like Chicago or DC. Much less of a feeling of grandeur of London or Paris. NYC is quite utilitarian. However, there is a community. I see the same person everyday in the subway, don't know his name, never spoken, but we are here together. There is more involvement with people...you make your own village.

I wouldn't say "smaller" but yes, it is more "intimate." You will recognize a lot of people whose routines coincide with yours. On the other hand, there is a good chance that you won't recognize all of the faces of the people that live in the same building as you.

It is also much easier to randomly cross paths with people you know (for met at least). This summer I've randomly crossed paths with several people that I haven't seen in years, even though I'm still working remotely and spending most of my time at home.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Well one positive is that no other city landing compares!

Exhibit A:

• Video Link

Ego shattering for non-NY folks. Full screen a must.

That's a sick video, especially with those white puffy clouds sitting on midtown, also kind of crazy how your eye doesn't gravitate towards the Empire State Building and Chrysler building now.

[DCReid]

Asking NYers to rate their urban experiences is like asking the Dallas Cowboys or Alabama Tide to rate other football teams. Of course they will think they are far above everywhere else. I think many cities have pleasant urban experiences especially in their downtowns and nice neighborhoods. For example, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, Chicago and SF are quite pleasant to walk around, explore, and go out. While not on a grand scale like NYC, they are still pleasant. I haven't been to many mega cities, but Paris definitely felt like NYC with sheer masses of people on the streets.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Re. Bay Area scenery, back in college I hiked an amazing state park very close to San Jose, and full of redwoods. It was just a few miles from San Jose. But I can't remember the name.

Would it have likely been Big Basin?

Sounds right.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I'm a Philly native. Have lived in Brooklyn the past ten years (having just returned to Philly). Work in Manhattan still and have worked in a few industries (fashion, consumer products).

I won't speak for all New Yorkers, but what strikes me about New York compared to other cities in the US is not the built environment which is always impressive to outsiders, but rather the people.

New Yorkers make an effort with respect to the way they carry themselves more than any other place I've ever been or lived, and its not contrived in any way. Individuality is celebrated. You can wear literally anything the F you want and so long as you lean into it and put it together, no one will blink an eye at you. Everyone hustles and has an agenda and its a great place to be especially if you're still ascending in your career. People are nice enough, but no one will go out of their way to help you.

Maybe it's because I've worked in fashion and care a lot about art and design, but I very often feel the aura of a place by how it's people dress and carry themselves. In this regard, NY is unmatched.

The point being, density and urbanity are super important to any city, but what attracts me to any city really, is the existance of a notable vibe. It doesn't have to be a NY vibe per se, but just something that is unapologetically and authentically that place.

Through that lens, the only places in the US to me that qualify as having any real authentic and individual vibe are:
NY
LA
Miami
Philly
New Orleans
Austin

There are beautiful cities all over the country that I love to visit: SF, Portland, Seattle, DC, Charleston, Chicago, etc.

But at the end of the day, to a certain extent, they all feel very middle America to me. There's an incredible amount of conformity in most places in America that's simply boring to be immersed in. When I travel, I spend as much time people watching and just hanging out as I do seeing the sites, etc.

SF is a beautiful (albeit not very urban) city with great food and beautiful scenery. And every time I'm there my friends criticize me for putting so much effort into my appearance, which by the way, is not very much effort.

In DC, Boston, and Chicago there is an insane amount of conformity. They're great cities in their own right. I could never live in any of them.

Anyways. That's my take.

If it makes anyone feel any better, there are plenty of things about NY that NYers hate that visitors don't see.

No one has air conditioning. No one has a dishwasher. Most people don't have more than 3 feet of counter space. Laundry isn't a thing unless you live in a posh door man building.

The trash collection schematic is disgusting. Most parts of NY don't have alleys, so trash is seemingly out all of the time. Huge piles of bags lining the streets of even the most posh neighborhoods.

The subway is amazing, obviously. It's still hard as hell to get around NY. There are always detours and delays. It's way bigger than most tourists realize and getting anywhere is very often still a 45 minute subway ride in 2 directions. People are so overscheduled nothing all that spontaneous happens. Ask a friend to dinner and very often it devolves into comparing calendars and making a plan for 3 weeks from today.

And this will be a third rail, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the food in NY (on AVERAGE) is actually quite mediocre. I'm not talking about Eleven Madison Park. I'm just talking about the average restaurant you could walk off of the street to order a sandwich or a simple meal. Or take out from every night. There is a ton of mediocre food in NYC. Ten years of living in Brooklyn ordering from Seamless and never once had edible Indian takeout. Working in the Financial District, 90% of the restaurants are literally garbage.

Obviously, there are still plenty of great restaurants. But more than most are average to below average. The sheer volume of tourists in NYC creates a space for bad food that doesn't exist in other urban centers where more of a restaurants business comes from residents and businessmen.

Anyway. That's my spiel on NY.

As for Paris. I would say, NYers who don't work in fashion love Paris. NYers who work in fashion hate Parisians but love Paris.

As a native of DC area, you nailed DC. It is conformity to an absurd level. The people, the buildings, the food, etc.
I personally couldn't stand it and left as soon as I could. Yes, those jobs pay better than most cities but something is off about the vibe/feel. I told friends in LA and Chicago you have to live there to understand it, you wouldn't pick up on it as visitor.

Chicago, I guess it has some conformity. I think it's mostly from the burbs tho.

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I find that access to nature is what San Francisco does spectacularly well.

Yeah, you're probably right.

I'm always trying to find things that San Francisco isn't good at, but there isn't much, except maybe affordable housing lol.

[llamaorama]

So, I have to ask...

People from NYC who have been to other parts of world where the default form of any town or city is vertical and crowded regardless of population or importance, what's your feelings on that?

Like, I haven't been there but I can tell from pictures and google maps that even smaller cities in China (or Taiwan) as well as much of the Middle East and to some extent Latin America, have a great deal of high rises and their older cores are packed with tenement housing, concrete mid-rises and narrow streets with street markets and things like that.

A tiny no-name city in China that was in the league of say, Paducah or Scranton, would still be pretty damn urban at street level. Probably just as intense as Brookyln if I had to guess.

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

So, I have to ask...

People from NYC who have been to other parts of world where the default form of any town or city is vertical and crowded regardless of population or importance, what's your feelings on that?

Like, I haven't been there but I can tell from pictures and google maps that even smaller cities in China (or Taiwan) as well as much of the Middle East and to some extent Latin America, have a great deal of high rises and their older cores are packed with tenement housing, concrete mid-rises and narrow streets with street markets and things like that.

A tiny no-name city in China that was in the league of say, Paducah or Scranton, would still be pretty damn urban at street level. Probably just as intense as Brookyln if I had to guess.

Brooklyn has 2,700,000 people on 70 square miles, for a density of 39,000 per square mile, twice that of London. How would Scranton sized Chinese municipality be comparable to Brooklyn? Reading, PA is pretty urban too, but its also extremely small.

For the larger question, its true that the urban comps for NYC don't really exist in the western world outside of Paris and maybe Barcelona/Athens (which are extremely different cities of course). A city like Mexico City or Hong Kong or Sao Paolo is extremely comparable and even matches/exceeds New York .

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

So, I have to ask...

People from NYC who have been to other parts of world where the default form of any town or city is vertical and crowded regardless of population or importance, what's your feelings on that?

Like, I haven't been there but I can tell from pictures and google maps that even smaller cities in China (or Taiwan) as well as much of the Middle East and to some extent Latin America, have a great deal of high rises and their older cores are packed with tenement housing, concrete mid-rises and narrow streets with street markets and things like that.

A tiny no-name city in China that was in the league of say, Paducah or Scranton, would still be pretty damn urban at street level. Probably just as intense as Brookyln if I had to guess.

I'll split hairs about how intense NYC is versus other places (Tokyo isn't more intense than NYC, but Tokyo IS very dense over a much larger area), but density isn't really a novelty outside of the U.S. like it is here. The U.S. is one of the very few the places in the world to have large auto-centric metropolises. In a global context, places like Atlanta are waaaay more unique than New York. I've been to dozens of countries around the world and I've hardly ever seen any places outside the U.S. where you're absolutely immobilized if you don't have access to a car.

[dc_denizen]

^ but new york's density is a novelty in the western world. and Atlanta, judging by the census weighted density statistics, is a low-density novelty in the US

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by LA21st

As a native of DC area, you nailed DC. It is conformity to an absurd level. The people, the buildings, the food, etc.
I personally couldn't stand it and left as soon as I could. Yes, those jobs pay better than most cities but something is off about the vibe/feel. I told friends in LA and Chicago you have to live there to understand it, you wouldn't pick up on it as visitor.

Chicago, I guess it has some conformity. I think it's mostly from the burbs tho.

It would be quite troublesome for the almost literal epitome of Middle America to not conform to Middle American standards and expectations.

New York thoughts about urban life too often default to size, street activity, and individualism. Chicago at similar densities and street activity as New York would still be a radically different experience of urbanism.

As for DC, well it’s a government town, but without the vulnerability and radical events that shaped other capitals.