Dallas: Capitol of America's Heartland?

[kingkirbythe....]

"Heartland" isn't really a place. At least not how it once was. Now it more code for rural (or small town), conservative, middle to lower class and mostly white. I've met people from rural Florida, California, Massachusetts, Idaho, Arizona, and Alaska that claim to be from the "Heartland".



And anything from the mind of Joel Kotkin should be dismissed out of hand.

[Steely Dan]

^ agreed 100%.

It's a billion times more of a cultural marker these days than a geographic one.

Whenever you find yourself in a small town or out in farm country, you're in "the heartland".

[Dariusb]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

And it's crazy, weird urban poverty/extreme Deep South poverty in between downtown and the master planned communities along BW8/ Kingwood/Humble. It's as if a chunk of Mississippi or Juarez Mexico was placed just north of downtown.

I do enjoy the few times I have to use 59N, a really under the radar major freeway expansion.

In 2010-2011 I lived in north Houston at the intersection of Greens Rd and Imperial Valley Dr. I wonder what that area is like now?

[The North One]

Originally Posted by kingkirbythe....

"Heartland" isn't really a place. At least not how it once was. Now it more code for rural (or small town), conservative, middle to lower class and mostly white. I've met people from rural Florida, California, Massachusetts, Idaho, Arizona, and Alaska that claim to be from the "Heartland".

US big media likes to refer to major metropolises in the midwest as "heartland" though. Chicago and Detroit are heartland according to trash outlets like NYT.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Dariusb

In 2010-2011 I lived in north Houston at the intersection of Greens Rd and Imperial Valley Dr. I wonder what that area is like now?

Greenspoint area has been considered kind of rough for decades. https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9505...7i16384!8i8192

[bilbao58]

Des Moines is the Heartland. There. It's settled.


ETA: Or maybe it's Omaha?

[Lobotomizer]

Originally Posted by The North One

US big media likes to refer to major metropolises in the midwest as "heartland" though. Chicago and Detroit are heartland according to trash outlets like NYT.

Detroit is definitely the heartland, though. When I'm listening to Skynyrd I always change the words from Sweet home Alabama to Sweet Home Detroit.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

that's funny you say "i can see" and kind of kneejerk really because illinois is a one horse state, yet actually, by sight, ohio is obviously just that, being the literal shape of a heart, in the exact position of the heart on the body of the usa, and being as mixed politically and urban, suburban and rural a state as there could be.

Blame National Geographic.

The term originates from a geopolitical theory about landlocked continental areas mainly in Russia and Central Asia. (Which is why OH, IN, and MI were not considered Heartland)

Basically the British (being an island people) feared that the railroad would allow continental powers like Russia and Germany to overcome maritime powers by consolidating control over interior resources away from the coast. And that this ‘Heartland’ was an existential threat to their democracy and liberty.

In the 1950s, NG wanted a sentimental sounding term for the middle of America, and chose this random geopolitical phrase that meant the opposite of American values.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...vot_of_History

Dallas would have probably been calling itself “Capital of the Cattlefolk”.

[Dariusb]

Originally Posted by bilbao58

Greenspoint area has been considered kind of rough for decades. https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9505...7i16384!8i8192

I didn't have any problems while I was there although I do agree it wasn't the best neighborhood. Very diverse area or at least my apartment complex.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Dariusb

What about Cleveland or is that too far out and more of an exurb?

Not even that. Kingwood is 30+ miles from downtown which is more of an exurb. Porter is just north of Kingwood (in Montgomery county) and is still pretty rural and rednecky save for a few new developments clustered near Kingwood. There's some commercial development in New Caney at the Grand Parkway but still largely rural and undeveloped. Cleveland is another 15-20 miles and not (yet) really connected to Houston development wise.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

Blame National Geographic.

The term originates from a geopolitical theory about landlocked continental areas mainly in Russia and Central Asia. (Which is why OH, IN, and MI were not considered Heartland)

Basically the British (being an island people) feared that the railroad would allow continental powers like Russia and Germany to overcome maritime powers by consolidating control over interior resources away from the coast. And that this ‘Heartland’ was an existential threat to their democracy and liberty.

In the 1950s, NG wanted a sentimental sounding term for the middle of America, and chose this random geopolitical phrase that meant the opposite of American values.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...vot_of_History

Dallas would have probably been calling itself “Capital of the Cattlefolk”.

You also need to consider what is meant by "Landlocked"

With the Mississippi, Ohio, Tennessee, Missouri, Arkansas, Illinois, St Lawrence, Sacramento, Colombia Rivers (And several other smaller ones) And the great lakes, Almost every state in the USA has open access to the oceans and even truly landlocked states are not far (with train and highway) from some sort of portage.

It really changes the calculation on what landlocked means for north America.

[Steely Dan]

^ according to this wikipedia map, the only states that have absolutley no navigable water route to the ocean are: ND, SD, MT, WY, CO, UT, NV, AZ, & NM.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by kingkirbythe....

"Heartland" isn't really a place. At least not how it once was. Now it more code for rural (or small town), conservative, middle to lower class and mostly white. I've met people from rural Florida, California, Massachusetts, Idaho, Arizona, and Alaska that claim to be from the "Heartland".



And anything from the mind of Joel Kotkin should be dismissed out of hand.

Yes and yes. Couldn't have said it better myself.

So, that pretty much wraps up the thread for me. How could there be a big city at the heart of the "Heartland" when the Heartland is (a) rural, (b) not a geographical place?

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Yes and yes. Couldn't have said it better myself.

So, that pretty much wraps up the thread for me. How could there be a big city at the heart of the "Heartland" when the Heartland is (a) rural, (b) not a geographical place?

Pickup trucks and cowboy hats.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Pickup trucks and cowboy hats.

Bakersfield?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ according to this wikipedia map, the only states that have absolutley no navigable water route to the ocean are: ND, SD, MT, WY, CO, UT, NV, AZ, & NM.

And when it comes to AZ, there are ocean ports in Sanora literally 60 miles south of the border

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Bakersfield?

Dallas is the capital of Bakersfields

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by JManc

Not even that. Kingwood is 30+ miles from downtown which is more of an exurb. Porter is just north of Kingwood (in Montgomery county) and is still pretty rural and rednecky save for a few new developments clustered near Kingwood. There's some commercial development in New Caney at the Grand Parkway but still largely rural and undeveloped. Cleveland is another 15-20 miles and not (yet) really connected to Houston development wise.

My idea of a pleasant drive in the country used to be up 59 to Livingston and Onalaska, across the lake to Huntsville. Then down I-45 back to Houston. I loved the WALL of pines on both sides of 59. Driving back on I-45 isn't all that relaxing, anymore. Or maybe it's just because I'm not as young anymore.

[Quixote]

If you had to pick a major metropolis, I would say yes. Latitudinally, Dallas is pretty much at the geographic center of the continental U.S. It's within a 4-hour flight of every CSA with a population of 5+ million (I rounded up Seattle and Phoenix, especially since they are both fast-growing metros). And it seems like everyone (domestic and foreign) is moving to Dallas these days.

Dallas is a true "American" city, especially demographically (where we are now and where we're headed). Culturally, DFW is where the South, Midwest (excluding Great Lakes), and West (excluding PNW) converge. But Dallas has a close connection with Denver, who's first cousins with Seattle and Minneapolis. The Cowboys ("America's team") are in the NFC East with New York, Philadelphia, and Washington. Can anyone find a connection with Boston/New England?

Texas County, MO (about 100 miles southwest of St. Louis and 150 miles southeast of Kansas City) was the mean center of the U.S. population as of 2010. I would have to imagine it's since moved farther south and westward, at which point you'd be entering Arkansas or Great Plains territory. Both share cultural similarities with Dallas.

That being said, I first think of Kansas when I hear "America's Heartland;" certainly not the Great Lakes or upper Midwest (Minnesota, Dakotas).

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

Blame National Geographic.

The term originates from a geopolitical theory about landlocked continental areas mainly in Russia and Central Asia. (Which is why OH, IN, and MI were not considered Heartland)

Basically the British (being an island people) feared that the railroad would allow continental powers like Russia and Germany to overcome maritime powers by consolidating control over interior resources away from the coast. And that this ‘Heartland’ was an existential threat to their democracy and liberty.

In the 1950s, NG wanted a sentimental sounding term for the middle of America, and chose this random geopolitical phrase that meant the opposite of American values.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...vot_of_History

Dallas would have probably been calling itself “Capital of the Cattlefolk”.

well in that case it sures beats calling it the midlands.