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  #41  
Old Posted May 5, 2015, 4:16 PM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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Chicago: Very diverse, but highly segregated.

Source: https://cbschicago.files.wordpress.c...map-census.jpg
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  #42  
Old Posted May 5, 2015, 5:06 PM
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And once again, you're deflecting so as to not have to answer a direct and pertinent question -- although I commend you on doing so with less open hostility than you displayed before.
I shall not answer for what other people purportedly say or what media outlets report. If you want answers to your questions, I suggest you ask the sources directly.
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  #43  
Old Posted May 5, 2015, 5:40 PM
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The least segregated cities

7 out of the top 10 are California cities (most diverse and least segregated.)

Read more here:
http://priceonomics.com/the-most-and...es-in-america/

Last edited by Leo the Dog; May 5, 2015 at 9:38 PM.
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  #44  
Old Posted May 5, 2015, 9:28 PM
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Is there anywhere that's very diverse but not segregated? I feel like this is something that's true everywhere rather than specific to these cities.
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  #45  
Old Posted May 5, 2015, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Is there anywhere that's very diverse but not segregated? I feel like this is something that's true everywhere rather than specific to these cities.
West coast cities ranked high in diversity and integration.
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  #46  
Old Posted May 5, 2015, 11:51 PM
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Houston. Pretty surprised it wasn't even mentioned in the article since it's the most diverse city in the country.

[IMG]HoustonDots2 by rellott, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]HoustonDots by rellott, on Flickr[/IMG]
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  #47  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 12:20 AM
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West coast cities ranked high in diversity and integration.
Because they're Asian and Latino, who are integrated everywhere, and predominately Sunbelt style development which lends itself to more integration at least on a Census tract level.
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  #48  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 12:38 AM
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My point is that for my whole life I have heard the NE, West disparage the SE for being racist and backwards, but the truth is that the conditions in the North were as bad or worse than what African Americans left during the early 20th Century. That era lives on today in that map of Chicago.
Oh Lord! another thread about "Chicago"! There were two types of "racism" back in the day. Southerners didn't tolerate blacks and Northerners did as long as you were "proper".
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  #49  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 1:44 AM
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Because they're Asian and Latino, who are integrated everywhere, and predominately Sunbelt style development which lends itself to more integration at least on a Census tract level.
Asians and Latinos aren't integrated in that Chicago map.

Also Sunbelt is pejorative on this forum. So you are calling San Francisco and Seattle Sunblet? You are calling los angles, one of amerca's five largest cities for almost 100 years as Sunbelt?
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  #50  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 1:55 AM
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Oh Lord! another thread about "Chicago"! There were two types of "racism" back in the day. Southerners didn't tolerate blacks and Northerners did as long as you were "proper".
Harold washington wasn't that long ago and he only carried 5% of white democrat vote in the very white democrat Chicago. White people in Chicago who had never voted republican, voted against Harold. I know as I saw a film about it at the Chicago history museum.

And it isn't just Chicago. Have you ever seen the pictures of when they desegregated school bussing in Boston in the 70s. It was as bad as Birmingham in the 60s.
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  #51  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Is there anywhere that's very diverse but not segregated? I feel like this is something that's true everywhere rather than specific to these cities.
To a degree everywhere is segregated, but not necessarily by race. In some racially diverse cities class and religion are more polarizing distinctions than race. Even in the United States race is far from universally being the most polarizing factor in every racially diverse city.
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  #52  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 11:43 AM
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As long as we only classify people into these 4 categories, the results are going to be off base and to a point not very meaningful. It'd be interesting to see integration based on foreign born status.
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Last edited by brickell; May 6, 2015 at 1:01 PM.
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  #53  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 12:58 PM
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Or some sort of matrix that takes into account socioeconomic status.
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  #54  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 2:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bobdreamz View Post
Oh Lord! another thread about "Chicago"! There were two types of "racism" back in the day. Southerners didn't tolerate blacks and Northerners did as long as you were "proper".
What are you basing this on? Restrictive covenants against Blacks were highly popular in Northern cities and its didn't really matter if you were proper or not. In fact, a "proper" Black person would have been called uppity by most Whites. America was an apartheid state for 100 years after slavery and it was not restricted to the South, although it did get more blatant the deeper South you went.

With that said, Chicago is a highly segregated city in person and on paper. I think that map proves it. Now is Chicago alone in being a highly segregated city? Hell NO, but for people to deny its highly racist past and present is really disingenuous. To rationalize why Chicago is hyper segregated and not link it to America's history of systemic and intentional racism is retreating into denial.

Last edited by goat314; May 6, 2015 at 2:46 PM.
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  #55  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 2:52 PM
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i thought the conventional wisdom was that, historically speaking, there were two different types of white racism in this country. white southerners wanted to continue subjugating black people and keep them in their place, whereas white northerners just wanted black people to go away entirely.

white southerners, who had lived alongside black people for centuries, weren't afraid of black people, but white northerners were utterly terrified by the large influx of southern blacks that poured into the northern industrial cities during the great migrations. white northerners where generally against slavery, and agreed that all men are created equal in principle, etc., but when it actually came time to live up to that ethos when they had to accommodate large numbers of black people in "their" cities and live alongside of and with black people, white northerners had one of the biggest collective paranoia-fueled conniption fits in history and ran away from the scary black people as fast as they fucking could, sometimes stumbling over themselves to get away. i think these two different histories play a part in why residential segregation is generally worse in the northern industrial cities to this very day.

it's not about northern or southern whites being more racist than the other, it's about different racial histories in the two regions and how they played out over the course of the 20th century.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 6, 2015 at 3:34 PM.
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  #56  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 3:23 PM
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Originally Posted by goat314 View Post
Atlanta is somewhat of an anomaly amongst the New South cities. It actually has very Northern racial segregation patterns despite being aesthetically Southern. I've also noticed that Atlanta also has the worst income inequality in the US too. Seems like a lot of people moved there with dreams of striking it rich only to find out that it wasn't all what it is cracked up to be, in many respects. With that said, I hope it finds a balance soon or else we could be looking at Detroit 2.0. Its almost inevitable that at least one of the New South cities will not fair well through the maturation process. If I had to guess, either Dallas or Houston will be the shining star, not so sure about Atlanta and income inequality in Miami is equally disturbing.
Detroit 2.0 because of a high black population, huh? Atlanta has a top 3 most diverse economy in the U.S....other than a high black population, there's no striking parallels between the two cities. And the only reason why Atlanta has such high income disparity is because of Buckhead and rapid gentrification. When you begin including the suburbs of Atlanta, blacks have a higher median income than those in the city. In fact, there are cities in the Atlanta suburbs where blacks have a higher median income than whites. Fayetteville is one of them.

Atlanta and D.C. are alike in that they both have white populations in their city limits that are abnormally highly educated and have high incomes relative to the black populations.

Here is the % of college educated non-hispanic whites and their median income for each city based on 2010 census data.

Quote:
Washington, DC (89.40%/$108,629)
Atlanta (76.16%/$84,036)
San Francisco (72.31%/$95,011)
Seattle (63.8%/$71,393)
Boston (62.29%/$71,625)
Miami (59.88%/$62,009)
Dallas (56.30%/$66,270)
Chicago (55.99%/$68,254)
New York (52.15%/$72,295)
Houston (52.82%/$71,908)
Los Angeles (51.83%/$67,252)
Baltimore (50.26%/$58,046)
Milwaukee (35.41%/$47,316)
Philadelphia (34.80%/$50,164)
Detroit (23.96%/$26,391)
Cleveland (23.81%/$33,581)
Whites are earning more in Atlanta than cities like Seattle, NYC,Chicago, etc...This is the result of massive gentrification in Atlanta and blacks who gain the opportunity to leave the city limits and move to the suburbs. The poorest blacks are left behind and high earning whites move into the city hence the high income disparity.

Remember, Detroit happened because whites left the city, not move into it and the collapse of the auto industry.
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  #57  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Detroit 2.0 because of a high black population, huh? Atlanta has a top 3 most diverse economy in the U.S....other than a high black population, there's no striking parallels between the two cities. And the only reason why Atlanta has such high income disparity is because of Buckhead and rapid gentrification. When you begin including the suburbs of Atlanta, blacks have a higher median income than those in the city. In fact, there are cities in the Atlanta suburbs where blacks have a higher median income than whites. Fayetteville is one of them.

Atlanta and D.C. are alike in that they both have white populations in their city limits that are abnormally highly educated and have high incomes relative to the black populations.

Here is the % of college educated non-hispanic whites and their median income for each city based on 2010 census data.



Whites are earning more in Atlanta than cities like Seattle, NYC,Chicago, etc...This is the result of massive gentrification in Atlanta and blacks who gain the opportunity to leave the city limits and move to the suburbs. The poorest blacks are left behind and high earning whites move into the city hence the high income disparity.

Remember, Detroit happened because whites left the city, not move into it and the collapse of the auto industry.
No, not Detroit because of high black population. I believe Atlanta will likely go bust because of massive income inequality.

ATLANTA leads nation in income inequality...AGAIN!

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/n...ity-again.html

I'm also concerned with the lack of infrastructure investment and development patterns. How will we retrofit Metro Atlanta?
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  #58  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i thought the conventional wisdom was that, historically speaking, there were two different types of white racism in this country. white southerners wanted to continue subjugating black people and keep them in their place, whereas white northerners just wanted black people to go away entirely.

white southerners, who had lived alongside black people for centuries, weren't afraid of black people, but white northerners were utterly terrified by the large influx of southern blacks that poured into the northern industrial cities during the great migrations. white northerners where generally against slavery, and agreed that all men are created equal in principle, etc., but when it actually came time to live up to that ethos when they had to accommodate large numbers of black people in "their" cities and live alongside of and with black people, white northerners had one of the biggest collective paranoia-fueled conniption fits in history and ran away from the scary black people as fast as they fucking could, sometimes stumbling over themselves to get away. i think these two different histories play a part in why residential segregation is generally worse in the northern industrial cities to this very day.

it's not about northern or southern whites being more racist than the other, it's about different racial histories in the two regions and how they played out over the course of the 20th century.
I mostly agree. There is an old saying "In the South, Blacks can get close but not too big, in the North Blacks can get big but not too close".
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  #59  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 3:37 PM
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That's for city limits only. Only 460k live in the city limits. The metro has a estimated population of 5.61 million. Buckhead makes up 1/3 of the city limits and among the most wealthy areas in the country.

It seems like you have no idea why Detroit went bust. You only say it because of "INCOME DISAPRITY"(for which less than 10% of the metro's population actually lives in the city) and "HIGH BLACK POPULATION". The city limits of Detroit are bad, but the suburbs of Detroit are doing fine. Atlanta's city limits are becoming more and more gentrified and educated which means it can't go Detroit.
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  #60  
Old Posted May 6, 2015, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Whites are earning more in Atlanta than cities like Seattle, NYC,Chicago, etc...This is the result of massive gentrification in Atlanta and blacks who gain the opportunity to leave the city limits and move to the suburbs. The poorest blacks are left behind and high earning whites move into the city hence the high income disparity.
No, it's beause you aren't comparing apples to apples. Atlanta (proper) is a black city.

The city of Atlanta is tiny, and the white population in the city of Atlanta is tinier still. You're basically comparing suburban Buckhead and a few gentrified in-town blocks with entire cities. There are no working class or even middle class white areas in Atlanta proper.

Obviously a rich suburb and a few yuppie condos will have higher median incomes than millions of people in entire cities.
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Remember, Detroit happened because whites left the city, not move into it and the collapse of the auto industry.
Not really. The collapse of the auto industry, yes, but not really the racial changes, which were actually at their height when the region was booming. Detroit, unlike Atlanta has working class, in-town white neighborhoods, so obviously will have lower medians. SW Detroit is, for the most part, a white neighborhood, since forever.

I don't see how any of this is relevant in the overall metro area context, though.
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