How Austin Became One of the Least Affordable Cities in America

[The North One]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Sure. "The Nations" is probably the most egregious example. Pretty much everything you see here has been built since 2015 in place of an older house:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Th...!4d-86.8490873

Also, they installed giant metal utility poles right through the neighborhood, as if the place is under threat of a Cat 5 hurricane strike:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1607...7i16384!8i8192

People are paying huge money for the privilege of living in this half-ass neighborhood.

These wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the insanely deep front yards, do they not like backyards in Nashville? What the fuck? If this is their attempt at form based zoning code then they need to fire whoever their consultant was and sue for damages. Like did they even consider reducing these wildly inappropriate setbacks after splitting the lots?

It is weird though that they managed to get one major thing right, the garages being hidden in an alley. Too bad literally everything else is horribly wrong, it's hard to even look at this.

[Omaharocks]

Those in Nashville wearing cowboy boots tend to be from Ohio/Michigan/Wisconsin.

Nashville is primarily a big draw for people from the midwest and northeast. For folks from the SE, Nashville is not a big draw. Atlanta tends to be the destination for motivated/progressive/business oriented southeasterners, while New Orleans is the destination for the artsy/musically inclined, and for city vacations.

Austin though, tends to draw from everywhere - it's trendy/hipster vibe is aligned much more with the west coast than the east.

While I agree the urbanity and architecture of Austin can't match that of Cincy, it is much more vibrant and open, and that's the draw, along with the high-paying jobs and youthful energy. What it lacks in strong residential bones, it makes up for with vibrant commercial corridors and an active downtown.

[Manitopiaaa]

Originally Posted by edale

I don't get the hype over Austin. It's fine but I don't see why it's such a hot spot these days. Even with all the crazy downtown construction, it felt small and suburban (quasi rural, actually) to me. You get like 5 mins south of downtown and you're in neighborhoods like this without sidewalks or any semblance of density:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2541...7i16384!8i8192

There were a couple of cool commercial nodes, but a lot of the major commercial corridors were basically suburban stroads. Texas Nashville.

No offense to any Austinites, but I agree. Of the big 4 cities, I spent 3 days in each (3 day weekends) and would rank them:

1. San Antonio
-GAP-
2. Dallas
-GAP-
-GAP-
3. Houston
4. Austin

Austin does have the best barbecue I've ever had though (La Barbecue). Then again, I also didn't like Nashville much (Memphis and New Orleans were far funner to me), so maybe I just have a really high standard for "cool cities"

[llamaorama]

After moving here a few weeks ago, Fort Worth to me looks like what I remember Austin looking like in the 1990s and early 2000s when I was a kid. Obviously Fort Worth has basically nothing in common with Austin culturally either now or then, I just mean like visually. What you see looking out the window of a car. Same oak trees, same kind of "Texas" look and feel. The downtown skyline is impressive but not huge, there's rolling hills and lots of 1950s era suburbs with big mature trees, a scattering of 1980s beige midrise office buildings, aging strip malls, etc. There's a lot of very old school established businesses and attractions that only locals are familiar with. In my new workplace everyone I work with seems to be from here and there's not a lot of transplants. Traffic is not so bad as long as you avoid the new sprawlburbs going out north along 35 and I feel like everything inside the 820 loop is pretty close together.

I am in Southwest Fort Worth and there's a pretty strong resemblance to central North and West Austin, especially when you get around Camp Bowie Blvd. The Ridglea theater is a pretty neat landmark. Instead of Schlotzsky's there's something called Galligaskin's. Just a lot of really old stuff that's not at all exciting but also unique given how in other major Texas cities (aside from SA) the effects of gentrification and rapid growth would have totally changed the vibe a long time ago.

That said Fort Worth has its things I don't like, and I already had some judgemental opinions of the place long before I moved here. I don't know if I'll necessarily be dropping those opinions either. But it's okay. It's just one half(technically more of a 1/3) of a much bigger city and if you don't like it you can commute from one of the suburbs that's towards the east and be able to to reach Dallas too.

Also Fort Worth does boast more outdoor activities than people realize, like the Trinity Trail System and the Lake Worth nature area, it doesn't really have the activities Austin has. Who knows, maybe if they proceed with damming up the trinity and building the diversion canal to create Panther Island with federal money you'll be able to paddleboard around just like on Town Lake. Cedar Hill State Park is in the grand scheme of things not special but it kind of looks like the crap Austin prides itself on. If you wanted to see "hills" (emphasis on the quotes) I suppose you could drive west to Mineral Wells which also has a very long former railroad converted to bike trail. Nothing like Barton Springs or Deep Eddie though, actually, the city's only big public swimming pool in Forest Park(which is down the street from my office hence why it's on my mind) is apparently too old to keep running and will have to be rebuilt into a smaller version of itself. People are mad enough about this to make a big thing with the city council, so who knows. Fortunately other suburbs in the region do invest more in parks and things like that, and the DFW area at large has a lot to offer families and people who are active various whatever.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by The North One

These wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the insanely deep front yards, do they not like backyards in Nashville? What the fuck? If this is their attempt at form based zoning code then they need to fire whoever their consultant was and sue for damages. Like did they even consider reducing these wildly inappropriate setbacks after splitting the lots?

It is weird though that they managed to get one major thing right, the garages being hidden in an alley. Too bad literally everything else is horribly wrong, it's hard to even look at this.

It appears that the old building line was maintained, at least on this street. I feel like I've seen spots where the tall-skinnies have been built closer to the street than the original houses but I can't remember exactly where.

Many blocks do not have rear alleyways and so the new pairs of houses often share an oddly-configured driveway and parking pad. Stuff like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1593...7i16384!8i8192

...and notice how the open drain culvert precludes construction of a sidewalk.

More total crap from that same block:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1595...7i16384!8i8192

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by edale

I don't get the hype over Austin. It's fine but I don't see why it's such a hot spot these days. Even with all the crazy downtown construction, it felt small and suburban (quasi rural, actually) to me. You get like 5 mins south of downtown and you're in neighborhoods like this without sidewalks or any semblance of density:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2541...7i16384!8i8192

There were a couple of cool commercial nodes, but a lot of the major commercial corridors were basically suburban stroads. Texas Nashville.

Interesting that you would pick this particular neighborhood which is known as Bouldin or Bouldin Creek. It is perched on a bluff directly across Town Lake from downtown. Next to Travis Heights, it is probably one of the most sought after locations in central Austin. Tear down properties go for well in excess of $700,000. New construction is usually in the $1.2 million to $1.5 million price range. It is exactly the kind of neighborhood that appeals to new arrivals, although few can actually afford it. It has a small town vibe but a very high level of amenities close at hand. BTW, you can bike downtown or just about anywhere else in the central area in a matter of minutes. https://www.zillow.com/bouldin-creek-austin-tx/

[C.]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Sure. "The Nations" is probably the most egregious example. Pretty much everything you see here has been built since 2015 in place of an older house:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Th...!4d-86.8490873

Also, they installed giant metal utility poles right through the neighborhood, as if the place is under threat of a Cat 5 hurricane strike:
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1607...7i16384!8i8192

People are paying huge money for the privilege of living in this half-ass neighborhood.

Thanks! Definitely weird vibe.

[Reverberation]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Ah yes the double-edged sword of success, always fun to have to start dealing with this part of it.


What I have always found interesting is the spin about the housing costs over the years. About six years ago I had the opportunity to relocate to Dallas via my job and I have a few friends that moved there so it was enticing and I spent a week working from there and exploring. But at the time while the housing prices were comparable/slightly better than around here in Philly [depending on the area of course], the property taxes and some other living expenses were more than I had expected so on paper was it really cheaper and if so, was it really by that much?

In suburban Houston, I have seen property tax rates (including all other assessments) in new communities in Brazoria County close to 4%. It doesn’t totally wipe out the price gap but depending on where you’re coming from, it can turn a $500k budget into a $345k budget.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by austlar1

Interesting that you would pick this particular neighborhood which is known as Bouldin or Bouldin Creek. It is perched on a bluff directly across Town Lake from downtown. Next to Travis Heights, it is probably one of the most sought after locations in central Austin. Tear down properties go for well in excess of $700,000. New construction is usually in the $1.2 million to $1.5 million price range. It is exactly the kind of neighborhood that appeals to new arrivals, although few can actually afford it. It has a small town vibe but a very high level of amenities close at hand. BTW, you can bike downtown or just about anywhere else in the central area in a matter of minutes. https://www.zillow.com/bouldin-creek-austin-tx/

These are the types of neighborhoods that are just mindblowing, to me. Why would anyone want to live there? It looks like a neighborhood in the Mississippi Delta. Forget lack of sidewalks, or Wild West-style utility poles, I wouldn't even trust the water pipes.

I can totally see moving to Austin or Nashville and getting a suburban sprawl home. Great job markets and the metros are built for that kind of lifestyle. Lots of nice new communities, with good schools and services. But paying $1 million for a lot in a shotgun neighborhood with developing-world level infrastructure, is just weird, IMO. Those are Tunica, Mississippi-type homes.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by DCReid

But unfortunately for Austin, it is still cheap compared to California, so the waves of relocations and business growth will likely continue. I got the impression years ago that Austin was attracting people from all over the country, so it will be interesting to see if its attraction shifts mostly to the west coast and it starts to have outmigration to other cheaper areas, like the midwest (Columbus, Des Moines, Madison), southeast (Raleigh, Atlanta), and maybe even cities like OKC and Louisville. Nashville appears to be a new favorite - I don't recall people wanting to relocate there when I was early in my career in the 1980s and 1990s. Raleigh is also another up-and-coming capital city that is a favorite.

My perception is that Austin is driven primarily by people from the West Coast, but it does attract some from the East Coast. It's already more expensive than most of the Midwest, so I doubt it is still attracting people from that region who may be looking for a lower cost of living.

[Crawford]

Yeah, I feel Austin gets newcomers from coast-to-coast, but it's draw is especially California-heavy. It feels more California, culturally, than the East. It's only "cheap" if you're coming from coastal CA. I haven't heard of too many people in my social/business circle talking much about Austin. Raleigh-Durham is kind of our Austin.

I have one friend from high school in Michigan who now lives in Austin (she married someone in grad school originally from Kansas and he took a job in Austin, she's a stay-at-home mom).

[C.]

Austin is a great city! Also, I got to thumbs up Le Barbecue as some of the best BBQ i've ever had.



But it's not my favorite city in Texas. It's also not a very diverse city.

That award for me goes to Houston. I feel people either love or hate Houston, but I'm in the former camp. It's a big city with an incredible amount of things to do. It's truly something for everyone. The criticism about the sprawl and traffic are valid ones, but there are some fantastic urban neighborhoods that have been built recently. Best BBQ I've ever was in Houston in a whole in the wall place called the Brisket House.

[strongbad635]

You wanna see part of the problem? This is a big part of it. The yellow areas ban all development except single family, detached houses.

[Six Corners]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Seems about right. As a note, just about any large capital city with a large university is a popular relocation and business hub right now, regardless of where they are located. Think Columbus and Des Moines in the midwest, and even Madison to a point even though it is quite small.

There are really no large universities in Des Moines. A couple smaller ones exist, but nothing like Ohio State or University of Wisconsin.

Unless you're referring to my alma-mater, Iowa State, but that's 35 miles from downtown Des Moines.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

Those in Nashville wearing cowboy boots tend to be from Ohio/Michigan/Wisconsin.

Nashville is primarily a big draw for people from the midwest and northeast. For folks from the SE, Nashville is not a big draw. Atlanta tends to be the destination for motivated/progressive/business oriented southeasterners, while New Orleans is the destination for the artsy/musically inclined, and for city vacations.

Austin though, tends to draw from everywhere - it's trendy/hipster vibe is aligned much more with the west coast than the east.

While I agree the urbanity and architecture of Austin can't match that of Cincy, it is much more vibrant and open, and that's the draw, along with the high-paying jobs and youthful energy. What it lacks in strong residential bones, it makes up for with vibrant commercial corridors and an active downtown.

yes and in closer to home ohio terms its the difference between cinci and columbus.

because after all, columbus its austin's more sedately booming twin brother.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by Crawford

These are the types of neighborhoods that are just mindblowing, to me. Why would anyone want to live there? It looks like a neighborhood in the Mississippi Delta. Forget lack of sidewalks, or Wild West-style utility poles, I wouldn't even trust the water pipes.

I can totally see moving to Austin or Nashville and getting a suburban sprawl home. Great job markets and the metros are built for that kind of lifestyle. Lots of nice new communities, with good schools and services. But paying $1 million for a lot in a shotgun neighborhood with developing-world level infrastructure, is just weird, IMO. Those are Tunica, Mississippi-type homes.

Lol. Because some people like to live closer to things that older neighbors provide.

The water pipes in Manhattan are far older than what’d you find in rapidly gentrifying inner Austin or Houston.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by edale

I don't get the hype over Austin. It's fine but I don't see why it's such a hot spot these days. Even with all the crazy downtown construction, it felt small and suburban (quasi rural, actually) to me. You get like 5 mins south of downtown and you're in neighborhoods like this without sidewalks or any semblance of density:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2541...7i16384!8i8192

There were a couple of cool commercial nodes, but a lot of the major commercial corridors were basically suburban stroads. Texas Nashville.

Because people care more about jobs than an urbanish standard of living.

I understand this forum likes to complain about Austin, Nashville, Atlanta, etc but it’s what the people want. And people like living in Austin.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

because after all, columbus its austin's more sedately booming twin brother.

Columbus is growing, not "booming". When DT Columbus comes into sight, it's not a forest of tower cranes as is the case when driving to Nashville or Austin.

That said, the older cities with large prewar office buildings and prewar office towers are seeing most of them renovated into apartments and condos, which means there is a lot going on but it's just not as obvious because it's not new construction. In the past, these things sat empty for decades but now the turnaround is almost instant.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Lol. Because some people like to live closer to things that older neighbors provide.

The water pipes in Manhattan are far older than what’d you find in rapidly gentrifying inner Austin or Houston.

Live close to what, though? Austin isn't a large or centralized metro. There are nice neighborhoods all around Austin. My friend in Austin lives on a lake, in an attractive older suburban area.

And the issue isn't age, it's infrastructure. The infrastructure in some of the in-town neighborhoods of Austin and Nashville are basically developing-world standards. No curbs, open drainage ditches, no sidewalks, no transit, leaning utility poles, etc.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Crawford

These are the types of neighborhoods that are just mindblowing, to me. Why would anyone want to live there? It looks like a neighborhood in the Mississippi Delta. Forget lack of sidewalks, or Wild West-style utility poles, I wouldn't even trust the water pipes.

I can totally see moving to Austin or Nashville and getting a suburban sprawl home. Great job markets and the metros are built for that kind of lifestyle. Lots of nice new communities, with good schools and services. But paying $1 million for a lot in a shotgun neighborhood with developing-world level infrastructure, is just weird, IMO. Those are Tunica, Mississippi-type homes.

Yeah, it reminds me of rural Appalachia. How is there a supertall going up just a mile or two away from this? It just doesn't make sense to me.