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  #241  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 6:04 AM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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^
The Harper in Rittenhouse is probably their best high rise project to date. But, let's just say they are not on the same level as SOM, Foster and Partners, Snohetta or other top tier architects, at least not in any projects completed to date. And their projects aren't featured in Architectural Digest. But, glad to see they are getting work in the Philly area. I'm sure money has to do with some of the design, but hope to see them do more work in Philly and up their design game.
Why would you want to see bad architects do more work in Philly? I'd just as soon never see them or Cecil Baker or Eric Leighton design another building here again. Some architects manage to create something interesting and decent with modest budgets and standard cost efficient materials. Gluck+ and their design with the Bridge is a good example of that. https://www.architectmagazine.com/pr...ery/bridge_3_o Those are the types of architects I want to see doing more work here.
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  #242  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 2:39 PM
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iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Why would you want to see bad architects do more work in Philly? I'd just as soon never see them or Cecil Baker or Eric Leighton design another building here again. Some architects manage to create something interesting and decent with modest budgets and standard cost efficient materials. Gluck+ and their design with the Bridge is a good example of that. https://www.architectmagazine.com/pr...ery/bridge_3_o Those are the types of architects I want to see doing more work here.
I certainly don't want to see bad architecture in Philly for sure. Hyatt Centric has a unique shape to it and isn't just a vertical rectangle. In giving it more thought and another look of the design, I think the design is fine. Like others, I now think the issue was with the downgrade of materials or not following what we saw from the original renders in terms of material currently be installed as compared to the renders.

Eric Leighton did 500 Walnut as part of the Cecil team and giving the lot and spatial surrounding, I think it turned out very good. One Riverside from Cecil is good too. Not great, but good.

I think philosophically we can all easily say lets get Philly the best design and best material that the budget can afford or the developer is willing to spend. But, at the end of the day, I think all projects look for a ROI and are constrained by budget that determined the designs and outcomes of how the projects will look when factoring labor costs and the amount of rent or selling cost each unit can fetch. But, I'm no insider so I can't claim to know the decision making and selection process of how all this works. For example, if the developer goes through a bidding process and ask architects for design proposals or is favored to do business with one selected architect for its project and makes the final decision. Some developers may just have bad taste in selecting design/materials, or their taste grossly differs from ours. Like the saying goes, just because you have money doesn't mean you have taste. Who knows?

Last edited by iheartphilly; Nov 6, 2019 at 4:58 PM.
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  #243  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 4:02 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
I certainly don't want to see bad architecture in Philly for sure. Hyatt Centric has a unique shape to it and isn't just a vertical rectangle. In giving it more thought and another look of the design, I think the design is fine. Like others, I now think the issue was with the downgrade of materials or not following what we saw from the original renders in terms of material currently be installed as compared to the renders.

Eric Leighton did 500 Walnut as part of the Cecil team and giving the lot and spatial surrounding, I think it turned out very good. One Riverside from Cecil is good too. Not great, but good.

I think philosophically we can all easily say lets get Philly the best design and best material that the budget can afford or the developer is willing to spend. But, at the end of the day, I think all projects look for a ROI and are constrained by budget that determined the designs and outcomes of how the projects will look when factoring labor costs and the amount of rent or selling cost each unit can fetch. But, I'm no insider so I can't claim to know the decision making and selection process of how all this works. For example, if the developer goes through a bidding process and ask architects for design proposals or is favored to do business with one selected architect for its project and makes the final decision. Some developers may just have bad taste in selecting design/materials, or their taste grossly differs from ours. Like the saying goes, just because you have money doesn't mean you have taste. Who knows?
They aren't good architects. Their exteriors are consistently below average. DAS is multiple levels below SOM and that ilk. There are many unknowns and lesser knowns in levels above them before we get to a SOM. Cecil and Eric are extremely average with average buildings and can only create a decent building with very high budgets. Good architects can create something decent with mediocre materials and modest budgets. Also, with DAS, they inevitably use the ugliest materials and cladding. Unclear to me how much of that is developer-driven or whether they just lack any good sense and creativity once the budget is fixed. My main point was that their renders, more than any other company, are a fiction. I am just going to ignore them completely going forward and have no expectations as to what their buildings will actually look like until construction is well underway.
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  #244  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2019, 4:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
They aren't good architects. Their exteriors are consistently below average. DAS is multiple levels below SOM and that ilk. There are many unknowns and lesser knowns in levels above them before we get to a SOM. Cecil and Eric are extremely average with average buildings and can only create a decent building with very high budgets. Good architects can create something decent with mediocre materials and modest budgets. Also, with DAS, they inevitably use the ugliest materials and cladding. Unclear to me how much of that is developer-driven or whether they just lack any good sense and creativity once the budget is fixed. My main point was that their renders, more than any other company, are a fiction. I am just going to ignore them completely going forward and have no expectations as to what their buildings will actually look like until construction is well underway.


Isn't it amazing that they manage to get work to stay in business? I guess we have to manage expectations on some of these architects then.
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  #245  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 1:41 PM
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Although the south face is regrettable, the rest of the building works well for me. I like the undulating brick spine running up the 17th Street side ( can be seen in the photo).
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  #246  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 3:51 PM
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Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
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^If I had a dollar for every building that was complete on three sides.... It's like they save one side for apprentices to design. We've come a long way since cathedral architects' commitment to beauty saw them put effort into design elements that only God could see.
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  #247  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 4:51 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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Although the south face is regrettable, the rest of the building works well for me. I like the undulating brick spine running up the 17th Street side ( can be seen in the photo).
Yeah it's not bad. The big story is the activation this thing will have of Chancellor Street - a sleeping parking garage Alley street will be transformed into a pretty lively area with a 4-star hotel entrance, restaurant, Vetri, etc.
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