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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 4:47 PM
Boku Boku is offline
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Thought there was a limitation on building on this lot due to the subway lines below?
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 5:50 PM
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Thought there was a limitation on building on this lot due to the subway lines below?
yes, hence the reason the proposed design has so much open space
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2019, 5:56 PM
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We can have our disappointments, but we should not make the perfect the enemy of the good. These are decent on a long standing eyesore of a lot. Right now there is ZERO density. This is a crummy, busy intersection so any urban activity is welcome. The old Metropolitan Hospital and the Roundhouse don't do anything for the life of that corner.
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2019, 1:27 PM
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We can have our disappointments, but we should not make the perfect the enemy of the good. These are decent on a long standing eyesore of a lot. Right now there is ZERO density. This is a crummy, busy intersection so any urban activity is welcome. The old Metropolitan Hospital and the Roundhouse don't do anything for the life of that corner.
Agreed. Not every new building can be a perfect 10.
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  #65  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2019, 1:56 PM
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Philly’s Equal Justice Center: More delays, less public space

https://whyy.org/articles/phillys-eq...-public-space/

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Philadelphia’s long-awaited Equal Justice Center project hit another delay and will be redesigned to feature less public space than initially envisioned.

It is the second revision in the last six months for a project that has gone through several design iterations and groundbreaking dates since 2017, when the Philadelphia Redevelopment Authority (PRA) selected Pennrose to execute redevelopment of the site. The land, owned by PRA, currently houses a surface parking lot and a headhouse for SEPTA’s Chinatown subway station.

The first phase of the redevelopment aims to co-locate a string of prominent Philadelphia-based legal aid societies –– like Community Legal Services and the Public Interest Law Center –– into a $70 million office tower near 8th and Vine streets.
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  #66  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2019, 2:13 PM
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Philly’s Equal Justice Center: More delays, less public space

https://whyy.org/articles/phillys-eq...-public-space/
What a disgusting atrocity. Eliminating public space to accommodate additional parking spaces? Cities are for humans, not cars. I can't stand people with the regressive "but where will they park" mindset, especially when it comes to valuable land in Center City.
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  #67  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2019, 2:32 PM
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Did you read the full article? Or it is just a knee-jerk reaction when you hear added parking? The concerns with parking in Chinatown are valid. The Chinatown businesses need to survive based on revenue not just from Phila residents or the surrounding counties, but also folks from the other side of the river and Delaware. So that means parking for those coming in from over NJ, and even Delaware that do grocery shopping, have a meal, see a friend, have banquet celebrations like wedding, birthday, etc. Alot of folks visiting are also elderly folks that are chauffeured by their kids, grand-kids. I think it is a happy medium. And, let's see the revised plans before we get our knickers in a twist.

Second, the article said their funding efforts have been slow. They are not getting enough donations to be able to start construction even with the committed PA grant.

I'm happy with the compromise. Chinatown is part of the fabric of Philly and needs to continue to survive and thrive. I glad they were heard and that the Councilman stepped in to addressed their real and valid concerns and that solutions were found.
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  #68  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2019, 3:24 PM
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^^^^^
I think you make some valid point but for me, it would be more appropriate if the existing area (bounded by Filbert to Vine Street and 7th to 9th ) didn’t contain more surface lots than structures already. I’m not saying that those lots are convenient for the purposes you stated but purely from an urban standpoint, it’s a pretty miserable area.

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  #69  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2019, 3:56 PM
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This is especially egregious when you consider that the lot literally sits on top of a subway station. A subway that connects directly to PATCO, the MFL, and North Philly.
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  #70  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2019, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
^
Did you read the full article? Or it is just a knee-jerk reaction when you hear added parking? The concerns with parking in Chinatown are valid. The Chinatown businesses need to survive based on revenue not just from Phila residents or the surrounding counties, but also folks from the other side of the river and Delaware. So that means parking for those coming in from over NJ, and even Delaware that do grocery shopping, have a meal, see a friend, have banquet celebrations like wedding, birthday, etc. Alot of folks visiting are also elderly folks that are chauffeured by their kids, grand-kids. I think it is a happy medium. And, let's see the revised plans before we get our knickers in a twist.

Second, the article said their funding efforts have been slow. They are not getting enough donations to be able to start construction even with the committed PA grant.

I'm happy with the compromise. Chinatown is part of the fabric of Philly and needs to continue to survive and thrive. I glad they were heard and that the Councilman stepped in to addressed their real and valid concerns and that solutions were found.
You might be correct, but why do you think Chinatown is dependent on people who drive there, have you ever seen any reports/studies? And even if you're right I can't believe that 10 or 20 spots at this site are going to make a difference.

In terms in of the design change I don't believe their stated reasons. Professionals in the design, development and parking fields don't need over 2 years to figure out how to locate 145 parking spots. Unless this is built before the next down cycle comes along, I doubt this will ever be built, and I've got doubts about it starting next year. Never mind phases 2 and 3. (but admittedly the Chinatown tower took forever to get built!)

I think anyone who follows development knows to never, ever trust any time line that a developer mentions (amount others, here's looking at Blumenfeld re Mural West that he said would start in July of '19!!). And for its worth, I didn't read anything about 'donations' being part of the funding mix or funding problems they are having. Getting over 60% of your target market to sign up years before any dirt has been touched is remarkable, and not something to be troubled by. I would say this is definitely a 'don't hold your breath' type concept/project. But I have always like the ideas behind this project, and wish it could have been built by now (as long as it doesn't include a 'poor door'). But as time goes by the whole thing and the excuses that are being trotted out make me believe its getting slippery.
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  #71  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2019, 1:00 AM
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
You might be correct, but why do you think Chinatown is dependent on people who drive there, have you ever seen any reports/studies? And even if you're right I can't believe that 10 or 20 spots at this site are going to make a difference.

In terms in of the design change I don't believe their stated reasons. Professionals in the design, development and parking fields don't need over 2 years to figure out how to locate 145 parking spots on a parking lot. Unless this is built before the next down cycle comes along, I doubt this will ever be built, and I've got doubts about it starting next year. Never mind phases 2 and 3. (but admittedly the Chinatown tower took forever to get built!)

I think anyone who follows development knows to never, ever trust any time line that a developer mentions (amount others, here's looking at Blumenfeld re Mural West that he said would start in July of '19!!). And for its worth, I didn't read anything about 'donations' being part of the funding mix or funding problems they are having. Getting over 60% of your target market to sign up years before any dirt has been touched is remarkable, and not something to be troubled by. I would say this is definitely a 'don't hold your breath' type concept/project. But I have always like the ideas behind this project, and wish it could have been built by now (as long as it doesn't include a 'poor door'). But as time goes by the whole thing and the excuses that are being trotted out make me believe its getting slippery.
Have you ever walked the blocks of Chinatown frequently or driven there looking for street parking regularly? There isn't a lot of street parking giving its density. Beyond that, Chinatown is basically a regional destination serving all Philadelphians, including the Asian community in the surrounding burbs and folks from the tri-State area, plus outside folks visiting beyond these geographic boundaries that travel in by vehicle. And we are not talking about keeping 10-20 spots. It's almost impossible to park on the street unless you drive around for 30+ minutes (excluding the exception of being lucky enough when someone happens to pull out and leave after finishing dinner/shopping/errand, etc.) and that's just for the people coming in for shopping/dinner. All the privately owned parking lots plus the big operators like Park America are busy and filled on any given day, and especially on weekends, and especially for banquets, weddings, and other big celebrations. That's a cultural thing there on a regular basis. So, when there's surge in parking needs from these banquets, weddings, celebrations, etc., the need is filled and it doesn't make it next to impossible to fill the need from street parking. The need has been demonstrated so that they are not adding parking to parking that is already there. It was about eliminating it because of the project. But fortunately, the plan is no longer to eliminate the existing parking due to folks understanding this need.

Also, go to their website, the project needs donations to fund the new project. I drew that out of commonsense and from the website and not necessarily from the article per se, but when I read it, I did read between the lines in the article that all the money isn't there and that's why dates moved.

I think the first phase will happen but the others like the hotel will depend on financing.

Last edited by iheartphilly; Nov 10, 2019 at 3:52 AM.
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  #72  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2019, 5:38 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
Have you ever walked [...]
The pedestrian experience here is a nightmare. This area is in desperate need of less parking.
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  #73  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2019, 6:12 PM
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Nah. It's fine, sidewalks are decent size and you can walk around and get to where you want to go. It's a bustling area because people are out and about. It's a busy and unique destination. It serves the widest audience and the restaurants, bakery, and other service industry businesses know that. This isn't some office district with highrises where people show up for their 8 hours of work and leave back to the burbs or whatnot.
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  #74  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2019, 6:25 PM
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Not enough parking:

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  #75  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2019, 6:39 PM
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I'm aware of both. I'm taking about the surface parking lot bounded by 8th and Race and the VSE. That lot is always full, especially on the weekend. There's demand and lots of it for all the reasons I stated. And that's where the development is happening but they have revised it recognizing the need for parking, so that's where we are at now. Fun to debate, but I can't beat a dead horse on this anymore. The plans have changed, so be it.
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  #76  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartphilly View Post
^
I'm aware of both. I'm taking about the surface parking lot bounded by 8th and Race and the VSE. That lot is always full, especially on the weekend. There's demand and lots of it for all the reasons I stated. And that's where the development is happening but they have revised it recognizing the need for parking, so that's where we are at now. Fun to debate, but I can't beat a dead horse on this anymore. The plans have changed, so be it.
So be it, yes, but the parking in this project hasn't changed, its just been rearranged. Hopefully no net gain.

Although this forum has different voices and opinions I think what you're advocating, keeping a huge number of surface parking lots intact, is unusual. Why not have that some view about other parts of CC, after all the easier it is for outsiders to drive into town and find parking the better it is for business. That's a viewpoint straight from the late 60's and early 70's, and one many cities are still trying to recover from. I'm not trying to be overly critical, but just push your assumptions to see where they lead.
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  #77  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 3:17 PM
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^^^ Exactly!!

The fact that surface parking lots are full, does not make them a good use of land in the core of a large city. I'm guessing ihreatphilly has some personal connection to people who use the lots but once again, not a very good reason to support them.
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  #78  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 4:04 PM
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If it came to compromise, I'd rather see all that parking consolidated into a garage with joint ownership.
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  #79  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 4:09 PM
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Please read the WHYY article again all. It's a re-configure of the site with the project. I never said to keep the surface lot in favor of the development. And, from the article, there's no net gain in parking but to fit it into the plan with the existing count. I also said let's see what the revised plans look like, if/when they become available. Again, I think this is a unique regional destination-no other Chinatown in Philly besides this one and mass transit isn't always going to work for everyone-the net gain is that we get folks from all around to support the local economy. And, I'm not advocating this for all of Center City-that would be just flat out silly. My connection to this issue is not different than my connection to downtown Philly, but with a critical eye on these issues. It's to easy to just paint with a broad brush on parking without the necessary critical thinking of the issues at play.
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  #80  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2019, 4:18 PM
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If the project is built, that's a plus for the neighborhood. As far as surface parking, I see it as a hold for future development. If it's not possible to develop the entire site, do what's possible now. The surface lot can always be a site for future development with little disruption to the rest of the site.
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