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  #1061  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2018, 5:25 PM
JK47 JK47 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
This implies there is no more space available in Willis Tower which is very much not true, even with the recent Morgan Stanley announcement. Also I find it hard to believe that Blackstone would be willing to let their main tenant of 850K sqft leave over lack of space in a building that has over 4m sqft.

I suppose it's possible that United got a hell of a discount on their lease and Blackstone feels that with the new investments they can re-lease the space at a much higher rate and so they're willing to let United walk.

Could be the lack of open contiguous spaces. United is leasing, if I remember right, floors 5 thru 17 and 21 through 23. Floors 18 through 20 are held by Willis and with the recent signing of Morgan Stanley I don't think there are any large contiguous blocks available at the moment (tower is currently 90% leased).

The ongoing renovations are also a major headache. Beyond nuking amenities (imagine eliminating all of the food vendors in the dead of winter) the timeline for completion stinks (2019 to 2020) and there's also an ongoing elevator renewal program that will drag on till 2023 (each elevator is being refurbished and the generators are being replaced & updated which takes 3 months per elevator) so for a bank of six elevators serving a dozen floors that's 18 months of disruption.

Honestly it kind of sucks working here at the moment.
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  #1062  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2018, 3:11 PM
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OPO in NYT

Not new news, NYT article on post offices in US adaptive reuse in general, mainly shines on Chicago. Some new interviews and pics.

NYT link
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  #1063  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2018, 3:56 PM
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Live-look inside the Post Office. They are at full-speed ahead.

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  #1064  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2018, 5:54 PM
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I wonder why sprinklers are needed for a concrete frame building? That's a lot of iron pipe there.

Good to know the sprinkler-fitting is done, though (and presumably any concrete/asbestos work) and they're already doing mechanicals.
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  #1065  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2018, 7:16 PM
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By code in Chicago your egress capacity increases 50 percent if it has sprinklers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I wonder why sprinklers are needed for a concrete frame building? That's a lot of iron pipe there.

Good to know the sprinkler-fitting is done, though (and presumably any concrete/asbestos work) and they're already doing mechanicals.
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  #1066  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2018, 8:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I wonder why sprinklers are needed for a concrete frame building? That's a lot of iron pipe there.

Good to know the sprinkler-fitting is done, though (and presumably any concrete/asbestos work) and they're already doing mechanicals.
Building appears to be steel frame in this photo. You can see the fire block wrapped around the beams with a couple tiles missing exposing the steel
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  #1067  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2018, 11:27 PM
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It's normally not smoke from the structural components of a building that kills you....rather the super heated and toxic smoke from the buildings contents.
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  #1068  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 12:39 AM
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Those look like nice tall floor heights 13-14 feet high?.

I hope they keep them open like via a loft and not do a drop ceiling calling from the 70's with popcorn ceilings.

I read some floors spaces are 19 feet tall or is that just the lobby?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/b...velopment.html


The redevelopment will turn former mail-processing areas into uncommon office spaces, taking advantage of expansive spaces with 19-foot-high ceilings, said Brian Whiting, president of Telos Group, a Chicago brokerage firm looking for tenants to fill the building. The biggest floor space stretches 285,000 square feet.


...

out of 2.8 million sq feet


Here is a nice 49 page of PDF of the post office history


https://www.cityofchicago.org/conten...relim_Summ.pdf
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Last edited by bnk; Feb 21, 2018 at 1:03 AM.
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  #1069  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
Building appears to be steel frame in this photo. You can see the fire block wrapped around the beams with a couple tiles missing exposing the steel
That would be the reason, then. I’ve never seen fireproofing like that, only the spray-applied kind or intumescent paint...

I guess since there’s no steel decking, it just made sense to soffit all the beams instead to get the desired fire rating.
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  #1070  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 2:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
That would be the reason, then. I’ve never seen fireproofing like that, only the spray-applied kind or intumescent paint...

I guess since there’s no steel decking, it just made sense to soffit all the beams instead to get the desired fire rating.
I think Chicago was on a bit of a gypsum block craze in the 20’s and 30’s. My old apartment building had interior walls made of gypsum blocks and that also wrapped the steel. In Detroit, all of the fireproofing was done with orange structural clay, but I’m sure both were common everywhere.

The floor slabs probably aren’t reinforced concrete either. I’m assuming it’s a composite block slab topped with concrete. Reinforced concrete was around in the 30’s but I doubt it was practical for a building this big. Too new and variable at the time. I’ll bet if the the plaster and grout is scraped away from the ceiling you’ll see that orange block
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  #1071  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 4:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
I think Chicago was on a bit of a gypsum block craze in the 20’s and 30’s. My old apartment building had interior walls made of gypsum blocks and that also wrapped the steel. In Detroit, all of the fireproofing was done with orange structural clay, but I’m sure both were common everywhere.

The floor slabs probably aren’t reinforced concrete either. I’m assuming it’s a composite block slab topped with concrete. Reinforced concrete was around in the 30’s but I doubt it was practical for a building this big. Too new and variable at the time. I’ll bet if the the plaster and grout is scraped away from the ceiling you’ll see that orange block
I've totally seen buildings from that vintage that are reinforced concrete. The Pickens Kane building on Goose Island (now Lost Arts) is pretty enormous, it has entire reinforced concrete construction with drop panels and mushroom capitals (photo from 1909).
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  #1072  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 1:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I've totally seen buildings from that vintage that are reinforced concrete. The Pickens Kane building on Goose Island (now Lost Arts) is pretty enormous, it has entire reinforced concrete construction with drop panels and mushroom capitals (photo from 1909).
My condo building has this kind of reinforced concrete construction and it's even a little older than that so yeah it was around for a while.
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  #1073  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 1:43 PM
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Looks like reinforced concrete slab to me. If it were something similar to a clay tile arch system with topping slab, like most of the 1920s Loop office buildings, you would see the exposed clay tile from the underside. Since many of these floors were designed to be driven on reinforced concrete was probably a better method.

The gypsum block wrap however is new to me, I am much more familiar with the clay tile fireproofing system, which is pretty pervasive in Chicago too. The columns btw are most likely steel I shapes encased in concrete, That was a standard construction in highrises for the period.

Another reason to sprinkler the building, aside from protecting the structure, contents, and occupants: Chicago code allows you 50% greater egress distances to a stair when a space is sprinklered. Considering the massive size of the building, that may have been a requirement to make the exiting work without adding new fire stairs all over the place.
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  #1074  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 2:14 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
That would be the reason, then. I’ve never seen fireproofing like that, only the spray-applied kind or intumescent paint...

I guess since there’s no steel decking, it just made sense to soffit all the beams instead to get the desired fire rating.
You've never seen steel protected by block or clay? Or are you just saying you've never seen it protected by gypsum block?

They have been fireproofing steel with block since literally the day they started using steel here. Here's a picture of one of the columns in Louis Sullivan's 1882 Jewelers Building. Notice the cast structural steel exposed from within a circular layer of clay coated with plaster.

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  #1075  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 3:17 PM
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Cool info. I didnt know it went that far back in history. When did they invent/start using the spray-on. Fire proofing?
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  #1076  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 4:00 PM
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The "office building" fronting Van Buren is steel frame with tile arches, 12'8" floor-to-floor. The 1921 building on the east side is steel frame, floor details not known, 16 ft floor-to-floor. The workroom building is steel frame encased in concrete, 19 ft floor-to-floor. The details of the floors isn't explicit in any of my sources, but it sounds like they were poured concrete that enclosed the steel beams. Since the ceilings would be left unfinished, plywood or pressed wood was specified for the formwork. The structural bays were a rather unusual 29'10.5" x 44'9". The real engineering legerdemain was transferring the building's loads to caissons that avoided the railroad tracks underneath, which required unusual transfer girders and even caissons with oval bells! Magnus Gunderson of Graham, Anderson, Probst & White was the main engineer.

Assuming I'm not the only nerd who might be interested, I'll spend some pixels to post his description from the Oct. 1931 Journal of the Western Society of Engineers:

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  #1077  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2018, 8:23 PM
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^ That's what I figured, though the workshop zone of the building appears to be more of a hybrid which is unexpected.

Reinforced concrete construction in older buildings corbels up in some way around the columns to diffuse the forces either with the conical "mushrooms" as ardecila mentioned or angled haunches , which isn't really the case with the post office. Plus there's a ton of steel spaced closely together, meaning the slab doesn't have all that much tensile strength.

While reinforced concrete construction was around at the time, it was still a new construction method, and there were probably not too many skilled contractors around to be commissioned on a building this large. I would imagine the US Post Office and their engineers proceeding with reliable and known methods of construction to deliver the project on time. I don't know what concrete encased around steel beams would be called as far as terminology, but it's not the common construction we see in modern times where grids or strands of rebar lend that tensile strength.

Anytime you see steel frame in an older building, odds favor that the slab will be clay tile.

Last edited by Rizzo; Feb 21, 2018 at 8:38 PM.
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  #1078  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2018, 1:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Skyguy_7 View Post
This looks like the floor slabs are sitting on top of the steel structural framework. Surely they wouldn't enclose structural "stringers" that were sitting up on top of the beams. By 1930, the symbiosis of rebar and exothermic concrete would have been well-enough understood to just make these ordinary reinforced slabs same as today, right?
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  #1079  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2018, 1:58 AM
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Post Office developer picks up another site nearby
By Danny Ecker

The developer overhauling the Old Main Post Office has added another property three blocks west of the massive office project, expanding its portfolio in an area it hopes will turn into a major corporate destination...

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/reale...in-post-office
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  #1080  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2018, 4:53 AM
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Interesting. That part of the South Loop (bounded by 290, 90/94, Taylor St & the river) needs to take better advantage of its proximity to transit (Clinton Blue and Union Station), adjacency to UIC, and excellent connections to 90/94 and the Loop proper. Right now it has a very industrial/back office vibe. Hopefully 601W can jump start it with the OPO and whatever they have planned for this site.

I might get chastised for this statement by some, but I wonder if the Amazon bid may be the reasoning behind this purchase?
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