LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by hughfb3

And here is the reason The Grand's height was downsized several years ago. Any higher and it would infringe on the backdrop view of City Hall from one of it's most iconic viewpoints, the enter-to-the-city-from-the-101-freeway front door. The developers initially proposed a taller 56 story building... then later downsized. From this very accessible view that millions of people travel every year, city hall is the welcome mat into downtown. Anything directly behind it will drown the sight of the ziggurat crown. At its current topped out height, The Grand sits underneath the crown.

I'm sorry, but IF that really is the true reason for the height reduction, that's complete folly. People have no problem with giant 1,500 ft supertall monoliths looming over the far more legendary Empire State Building...

Hate to bring other cities in the conversation but sometimes no words can describe how asininely backwards this city can be compared to the rest of the world.

[hughfb3]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

I'm sorry, but IF that really is the true reason for the height reduction, that's complete folly. People have no problem with giant 1,500 ft supertall monoliths looming over the far more legendary Empire State Building...

Hate to bring other cities in the conversation but sometimes no words can describe how asininely backwards this city can be compared to the rest of the world.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/new-y...o-gumusyan-aia

New York absolutely has height limits around the Empire State Building and has for decades. The above link is an example of the city releasing the Kraken on midtown east allowing for greater height otherwise not possible before. They must unleash the possibility of more office space in directed areas which is relieving pressure from developing directly around ESB. They are protecting its eastward views from Long Island and JFK; its main point of entry for millions of people, and it's south facing view from downtown. Just like in LA, this is a master planned directive to developers showcasing the massing and height of where the city wants buildings and how tall... these plans take decades to unfold.

ESB can still be seen sitting in planes on the tarmac at JFK, EWR and from the top of the World Trade Center; all of which are controlled and/or managed by the Port Authority of NY/NJ. Its westwards views are being threatened though and it is a battle, but the City and State of New York could care less about Jersey views... hence Hudson Yards, Manhattan West, and Vornado's plans for Madison Square Garden district’s Pennsylvania Hotel.

London also has limits around its famous landmarks from specific views as well; and Paris is even more strict, only allowing high rises in a master planned/confined space. Nothing new here and nothing unique to Los Angeles

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by hughfb3

New York absolutely has height limits around the Empire State Building and has for decades. They are protecting its eastward views from Long Island and JFK; its main point of entry for millions of people, and it's south facing view from downtown. ESB can still be seen sitting in planes on the tarmac at JFK, EWR and from the World Trade Center; all of which are controlled and/or managed by the Port Authority of NY/NJ. Its westwards views are being threatened though and it is a battle, but the City and State of New York could care less about Jersey views... hence Hudson Yards and Voronado's plans for Madison Square Garden district.

London also has limits around its famous landmarks from specific views as well; and Paris is even more strict, only allowing high rises in a master planned/confined space. Nothing new here and nothing unique to Los Angeles

Ahh I see, stand corrected. Thanks for the link to the East Midtown rezoning, by the way!

Still, though I know I'm in the minority, I think height limits simply for the sake of preserving certain long-distance views are overrated. While I like the idea of seeing ESB from street level a few blocks away, I really don't see the need to see it all the way from JFK while actually sitting on the tarmac. Oh well

Anyways, so is the aforementioned view of City Hall the only one that is protected? If so that would explain the design of that new masterplan vision for the Civic Center.

[Prahaboheme]

I’ve never heard this to be a reason for downsizing of the Gehry building — is there a source? It’s nearly a mile away.

[bhunsberger]

Originally Posted by Prahaboheme

Elegant indeed. When will the remainder of the theatre district be retrofitted with the globe lights? Broadway could easily become LA’s “grandest” avenue in the years to come and deserves to be cleaned up.

Yeah, and new trees planted. There are only a handful of trees on Broadway and they are ficus. I think it would be amazing if the city would remove the last few remaining and line the entire Broadway corridor with Jacarandas. Imagine those decorative lamp posts & jacarandas.... it would be stunning!

[hughfb3]

Originally Posted by Prahaboheme

I’ve never heard this to be a reason for downsizing of the Gehry building — is there a source? It’s nearly a mile away.

**The green arrows represent view corridors in the new 2017 Civic Center plan below**
[IMG]Untitled by Hugh B, on Flickr[/IMG]
Untitled by Hugh B, on Flickr

"Accessibility, connectivity, and City Hall’s iconic architecture informed the planning framework, expressed through a diagonal axis that connects City Hall both visually and physically with surrounding communities."

https://www.ibigroup.com/ibi-project...ster-planning/

This is a quote from the Civic Center Master Plan created in 2017 which explicitly shows how important city hall views are to the City and how they plan for decades the surrounding buildings' scale and sightlines for miles away. Not to mention, the Grand Avenue Project sits on land that is directly controlled by both the City and County of Los Angeles; which is why they've had a say in its design since inception. Remember when the county supervisors kicked Gehry off the project because they didn't like dealing with him, then chose Robert A.M. Stern for a few years, didn’t like his designs and booted him to go right back to Gehry.

https://la.curbed.com/2014/1/14/1015...first-approval

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

Anyways, so is the aforementioned view of City Hall the only one that is protected? If so that would explain the design of that new masterplan vision for the Civic Center.

The Historic Core also has design guidelines as well. Perla is one example where its base had to match the existing historic buildings scale and materials; and in order to build a tower, it had to be set back and not in direct view from Broadway.


It's not all doom and gloom and constantly downsized skyscrapers for Los Angeles. The planning commission approved the Tribune Tower to be taller and slimmer = height increase.

https://urbanize.city/la/post/tribun...r-2nd-broadway

[Edited reply for below]
Thanks Rocha!!!
WHOA Mojeda coming through with the high level shots!!! Love them and glad you are back on. Missed you the last few years

[Rocha091370]

Love the pics awesome!

[Mojeda101]

Took these in Downtown today. Sorry for Facebook destroying the quality.

[IMBY]

Without balconies, that tower looks just like an office building, so what's the big attraction!!!

If I were to buy a unit on Bunker Hill it would be in one of those 60's/70's buildings with the colors in it. I'm absolutely mad about that era of construction and style! Got to, got to have a balcony with my unit, besides!

And aren't you all getting tired of my criticism of balcony-devoid structures by now!!!

[delts145]

Originally Posted by hughfb3

The outdoor Gold's at 7th & Fig gets crowded, especially during peak times (nothing changed here). It's nice though and I love working out under the skyscrapers from above the plaza. The parking garage can be confusing and in order to validate; one must go to the basement level where the gym is, but its fine and they give 2.5 hours validation. They do not allow personal bags on the floor and they must be left in a locker or in your car.

But the best part about it... especially to us skyscraper nerds... is we get to work out next to a Cesar Pelli designed building and watch TWO brand new high rises go up on opposite sides... as we are doing pull ups, squats, deadlifts and planks. That's a score for me!!!!!

Thanks Hugh for that Update, much appreciated. I guess I'm just going to have to join Gold's too. I'm getting tired waiting around for my 24-Hour Fitness to reopen, and I'm not about to drive out to the Valley everytime I want to work out.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by bhunsberger

Yeah, and new trees planted. There are only a handful of trees on Broadway and they are ficus. I think it would be amazing if the city would remove the last few remaining and line the entire Broadway corridor with Jacarandas. Imagine those decorative lamp posts & jacarandas.... it would be stunning!

I was about to say Jacarandas are cool if you don't have a car parked underneath one, but in this case...

[DJM19]

I think the broadway specific plan calls for planting Callery Pear trees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrus_calleryana

[dax_gray]

Amazing pictures! That view of The Grand from Perla really gives downtown a dense urban feel.

Looking forward to Moxy but kind of bummed by the fortress of parking. I hope they wrap apartments around moxy and circa's podiums in the future. I would swap out leds for apartments any day.

[Niftybox]

Great pictures. I like how much The Grand already blends into its surroundings, in the renders it really stood out but it looks like it belongs right there, also adding sorely needed prominence in that area.

[JDRCRASH]

Yeah Mojeda and Hunter take awesome photos!

Originally Posted by hughfb3

**The green arrows represent view corridors in the new 2017 Civic Center plan below**

"Accessibility, connectivity, and City Hall’s iconic architecture informed the planning framework, expressed through a diagonal axis that connects City Hall both visually and physically with surrounding communities."

https://www.ibigroup.com/ibi-project...ster-planning/

Interesting. So even though those new buildings' designs might vary depending on the developer, as far as the actual massing is concerned, what we see in the rendering is pretty much what we're gonna get.

The Historic Core also has design guidelines as well. Perla is one example where its base had to match the existing historic buildings scale and materials; and in order to build a tower, it had to be set back and not in direct view from Broadway.

Yeah I knew about the design guidelines for the historic core regarding preserving the "street wall" experience and about the setbacks for buildings taller than the 12 or 13 story historical height limit. And honestly... I absolutely love them. I was more or less referring to the guidelines concerning the Civic Center area. Thanks so much for going out of your way to provide those links!

It's not all doom and gloom and constantly downsized skyscrapers for Los Angeles. The planning commission approved the Tribune Tower to be taller and slimmer = height increase.

https://urbanize.city/la/post/tribun...r-2nd-broadway

Well that's good to know. I suppose I'm so used to HOA and Neighborhood Council folks having such a big say in almost anything that gets built (after all if I'm correct 90% of LA's residential areas are zoned R-1 density) that I'm guilty of the mistaken assumption they're always the culprits behind projects getting haircuts.

[hughfb3]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

Yeah Mojeda and Hunter take awesome photos!

Interesting. So even though those new buildings' designs might vary depending on the developer, as far as the actual massing is concerned, what we see in the rendering is pretty much what we're gonna get.


Yeah I knew about the design guidelines for the historic core regarding preserving the "street wall" experience and about the setbacks for buildings taller than the 12 or 13 story historical height limit. And honestly... I absolutely love them. I was more or less referring to the guidelines concerning the Civic Center area. Thanks so much for going out of your way to provide those links!


Well that's good to know. I suppose I'm so used to HOA and Neighborhood Council folks having such a big say in almost anything that gets built (after all if I'm correct 90% of LA's residential areas are zoned R-1 density) that I'm guilty of the mistaken assumption they're always the culprits behind projects getting haircuts.

Love that admission. It's my intention that my communication be from a place of sharing and learning. I've learned so much just by being on these forums over the years and it's empowered me in what I am up to in life and I love being a contribution. Im Thinking about starting a blog, website or digital magazine as a result of being on here!!!

Yes, that is correct in that these plans are the framework. A developer will come in at a later date and propose something. More or less, the placement, height and scale will be similar to what the plans originally called for. Occasionally a developer will ask for things outside of the plans, or they may propose something that moves the mass over a few blocks. That is up to the city and planning commission to grant exceptions. Most times, these plans showcase a boxy structure; which notates for a developer the extremities of said buildable area. A developer may come in and use the entire box, or they might taper it in on a few sides to give it form. Most developers though want to maximize their profits rather than build something unique and beautiful, so they build out the entire box.

These plans historically take decades to unfold. We are lately experiencing the expiration of old plans where the intentions have been fulfilled, which is why we are seeing new ones created. The Civic center had an old plan that was complete and actualized... and now we have the new 2017 plan which will go until the 2040's.

[edit for below post] AWE YEAH BILLinGlendale. That shot is gorgeous!

[BillinGlendaleCA]

The Grand from Elysian Fields Sunday at sunset:

[colemonkee]

GREAT shot, Bill!

[Quixote]

Great shots everyone!

Angelus Plaza is such an eyesore; that whole block between Angel's Flight and 2nd should be redeveloped into a massive mixed-use office and residential skyscraper complex.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Great shots everyone!

Angelus Plaza is such an eyesore

This across the street is a bit worse:


yasabe.com


there was a demo permit for that property before the pandemic hit...but I assume that didn't cause the owner to cancel the teardown. I haven't been around there since the nearby grand central mkt went into mothballs, so I don't know for sure if taco house #1 finally went to that big scrapyard in the sky. The land certainly is still no better than a surface lot.

as with the parking lot that used to be at 8th & fig, Hill & 4th st is way overdue for replacement too.

I know the medical bldg on 9th st next to the fwy where the olympia proj is supposed to go finally was torn down last yr.