Winnipeg Ice

[Biff]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

Hold on, AAA is NOT $15k. My kid plays U18 AAA, 2nd year, which is use to be called Provincial Midget, highest level you can play before Mjhl or Whl. He also played U15AAA for 2 years, one year being Covid. We pay $6800 and you can get $600 back if you sell your fundraising calendars. That includes numerous bus rides province wide, hotel and post game meals after every road game (even if not staying the night).

I don't know for sure but I use to be on Board and on average 2-4 players on every team apply for subsidy from Hockey Wpg, Hockey Canada and others that covers 50-80% fees.

One of the other u18 AAA city teams pays $8500 bu they flying to tourney in BC.

We are U18 AA an we will end up paying about $3K-$4K depending on tournaments. Close friends have kids on High School and one of their tournaments was in Montreal. Their year will be about $5k.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

Not sure where you're getting that from. According to The Hockey Writers 41% of active players are Canadian and 28% are American. In the 2022 draft 39% of draft picks were Canadian, while 22% were American.

The number of Canadians has been steadily declining for quite a while, being supplanted primarily by Americans but also by a more diversified cohort of Europeans. The proportion of Canadians in the NHL used to be 50% and 60% fairly recently.

Some of this may come down to cost but that's too simple of an explanation - costs are rising everywhere and not only Canadians would be affected by that. The increasing number of Americans in the NHL is due to a number of factors, not the least of which is an increased presence in the US of franchises (expansion), increased viability of hockey youth programs, and a general decline of the sport in Canada as interest is drawn to other sports, whether for financial or cultural reasons. One could argue, I suppose, that there's been no decline in Canada and that the increase is purely down to the sport becoming more attractive elsewhere, but that's not one that I generally side on. Take your pick.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

We are U18 AA an we will end up paying about $3K-$4K depending on tournaments. Close friends have kids on High School and one of their tournaments was in Montreal. Their year will be about $5k.

That's interesting, I always thought that high school was the lower-cost alternative to AA/AAA programs. But I guess a tournament or two can drive up the costs pretty quickly.

~~~

In ICE news, the Free Press has now retracted their $500,000 fine story, and issued a brief apology (well, they "regret the error") but only in their print edition.

That's kind of crazy, it's like putting out an online story that says "SOURCES REPORT THAT JUSTIN TRUDEAU ATE A BABY!"

And then three days later putting out a print retraction and apology that hardly anyone will see.

So no fine from the WHL, business as usual. Although I'm sure the WHL is less than impressed with the ICE's lack of progress on the arena front.

[drew]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

Hold on, AAA is NOT $15k. My kid plays U18 AAA, 2nd year, which is use to be called Provincial Midget, highest level you can play before Mjhl or Whl. He also played U15AAA for 2 years, one year being Covid. We pay $6800 and you can get $600 back if you sell your fundraising calendars. That includes numerous bus rides province wide, hotel and post game meals after every road game (even if not staying the night).

I don't know for sure but I use to be on Board and on average 2-4 players on every team apply for subsidy from Hockey Wpg, Hockey Canada and others that covers 50-80% fees.

One of the other u18 AAA city teams pays $8500 bu they flying to tourney in BC.

Maybe those costs were factoring in what parents paid for their own travel and accommodation for tournaments. Including international ones.

My kid plays u13A3. There are no swanky tournaments or team bags or anything like that. It's probably $1500 a year all in.

[esquire]

In case you haven't been paying attention, the ICE are loading up to go all in for a run at the Memorial Cup.

After trading for veterans Carson Latimer from Prince Albert and Easton Armstrong from Regina last week, they have emptied the cupboards to get Vancouver's captain and Team Canada WJHC member and Ottawa Senators draft pick Zack Ostapchuk. Ostapchuk has great playoff experience, he was on the eighth seed Giants team that upset the first place Everett Silvertips in the first round last season.



This week the ICE have a matchup at home against the top team in the Western Conference, the Seattle Thunderbirds, which could legitimately be a WHL championship preview.

The #1 ICE beat the #4 Portland Winterhawks 6-3 yesterday at Wayne Fleming Arena, it will be interesting to see how they do against the #2 Thunderbirds.

[Biff]

Wow, 4 players and 4 picks for one player (3 first rounders). At least he is not Herschel Walker.

Definitely going all in.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Kamloops and Seattle have been making a few blockbuster moved too

[wags_in_the_peg]

ICE have traded away lots draft picks over the years, Caldwell on Twitter.

"Just to recap the Winnipeg Ice draft situation, top 6 rounds only...

2023: a 3rd, a 5th, two 6ths
2024: no picks til the 7th round
2025: a 5th
2026: no picks til the 7th round"

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

ICE have traded away lots draft picks over the years, Caldwell on Twitter.

"Just to recap the Winnipeg Ice draft situation, top 6 rounds only...

2023: a 3rd, a 5th, two 6ths
2024: no picks til the 7th round
2025: a 5th
2026: no picks til the 7th round"

Let's face it, it's all or nothing for the ICE this season. They will be switching to rebuild mode next year. I'm sure some of their younger stars will get shipped out starting next season. Looking at the going rate for Ostapchuk and Zellweger, can you imagine how many first rounders someone like Zach Benson will bring in?

This also sheds some light on why Bedard won't get traded... if Ostapchuk warrants two players, two prospects and four draft picks including three first rounders, then what would Bedard yield in return? Like double that? It would make the Gretzky trade look like tiddlywinks in comparison. Anyone making a deal with Regina would be banished to last place for years to come.

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Such is the way of the CHL (WHL, OHL, QMJHL). Given that the vast majority of players are 16-20 year olds, teams are constantly building up then tearing down as windows open and close. Winnipeg has a great team right now. The trade deadline has passed. Let's see what happens.

Off-topic - went to a Brandon Wheat Kings game on New Year's Eve. They have really stepped up their concessions. Post-game fireworks were legitimately good. I was just in Niagara over the weekend and noted that the fireworks show there was noticeably inferior to the one in Brandon.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by esquire

This also sheds some light on why Bedard won't get traded... if Ostapchuk warrants two players, two prospects and four draft picks including three first rounders, then what would Bedard yield in return? Like double that? It would make the Gretzky trade look like tiddlywinks in comparison. Anyone making a deal with Regina would be banished to last place for years to come.

Every 1st round draft pick from 2023 to 2033


Bedard put up better numbers for his age than McDavid. He is a generational player.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by esquire

In case you haven't been paying attention, the ICE are loading up to go all in for a run at the Memorial Cup.

After trading for veterans Carson Latimer from Prince Albert and Easton Armstrong from Regina last week, they have emptied the cupboards to get Vancouver's captain and Team Canada WJHC member and Ottawa Senators draft pick Zack Ostapchuk. Ostapchuk has great playoff experience, he was on the eighth seed Giants team that upset the first place Everett Silvertips in the first round last season.

WTF?

I checked out Zack Ostapchuk's stats. He is not overly impressive. That's too much they Ice gave away, IMO>

[wags_in_the_peg]

ICE needed size to go deep in playoffs, he brings that. Coach Patrick was interviewed recently and last year, he said Oil Kings had size and they didn't.

[esquire]

^ The ICE brought in Jack Finley last season but he wasn't enough. I wonder if the team has gotten bigger enough, on average, to fix that problem?

The ICE don't really have a big defensive corps, that is one glaring difference with some of the other top teams. Their leaders on D, Lambos and Zloty, are not big dudes. Even the muscle, Prosofsky, is not a big guy. Compare with a team like the Edmonton Oil Kings who during last season's run had big dudes on the back end like Guhle and Prokop.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ The ICE brought in Jack Finley last season but he wasn't enough. I wonder if the team has gotten bigger enough, on average, to fix that problem?

The ICE don't really have a big defensive corps, that is one glaring difference with some of the other top teams. Their leaders on D, Lambos and Zloty, are not big dudes. Even the muscle, Prosofsky, is not a big guy. Compare with a team like the Edmonton Oil Kings who during last season's run had big dudes on the back end like Guhle and Prokop.

Like Edmonton last year, I wonder if the ICE will be outdone be Seattle this year with their acquisitions. Worth noting they lost on home ice to them two night ago. Of note, they also have Jets first round draft pick Lambert.

[esquire]

I got my season ticket renewal package so it looks like the ICE are in for another season in Winnipeg!

Interestingly, I was at last night's game chatting with someone in a position to know, and they told me that only about 600 fans actually passed through the doors for the game. It certainly looked like that, given that the 1,800 seat arena did not even look half full. Of course, I'm sure there were a lot more tickets distributed to season ticket holders that didn't show for whatever reason, but still... this was a night with no Jets game, no Moose game, no marquee sports event on TV, nice weather (no snowstorm or deep freeze), and the team only pulls in a Winkler Flyers-type number. And this is a team that's flying high, they can legitimately say they are one of the very best junior hockey teams in the league and hell, in the world. I find it amazing that they can't pack the joint with the team they have... 600 fans, probably 1/3 of which is minor hockey teams and their parents, is a very weak number.

I really enjoy watching the team and I hope they stay, but considering that the team has to pay 100% of the bills with probably only a fraction (40%? 60%?) of the revenue of the other teams, it doesn't seem like a situation that's tenable for the long term. At this point you have to wonder if even a new arena will fix this.

[JHikka]

That sort of sentiment mirrors a lot of what we've seen in Quebec and Ontario wrt the long-term viability of high-level junior hockey in this country. I think the sport still has a place but it's increasingly being pushed to more medium-sized and smaller markets where it has to be the only show in town in order to have local traction. It's a difficult sell in larger population centres with different options available to consumers.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

That sort of sentiment mirrors a lot of what we've seen in Quebec and Ontario wrt the long-term viability of high-level junior hockey in this country. I think the sport still has a place but it's increasingly being pushed to more medium-sized and smaller markets where it has to be the only show in town in order to have local traction. It's a difficult sell in larger population centres with different options available to consumers.

I agree with the idea that junior hockey (regardless of level) generally does best where it's the main event. But it's funny, the WHL has carved out a pretty solid following in the other NHL cities. Even if they aren't necessarily making money hand over fist, they are at the very least lucrative enough such that their futures aren't in doubt. Winnipeg is becoming the exception to that, however.

I get that the ICE owners have had some terrible luck... COVID wiped out the 2020 and 2021 playoffs when the team could have reasonably expected to go a couple of rounds and build a bit of a profile on the local sports scene. But they have done all they can do, they have a stellar team out there on the ice and excellent game production, certainly compared to what I've seen in other WHL cities I've been to. Ticket prices are more than reasonable. To do all that and then get 600 people out to a game must be discouraging to say the least.

I guess the owners are wealthy enough that they can put up with it (especially if they see it as a hobby or indulgence more than a purely moneymaking venture), but at a certain point even a wealthy guy has to reach his breaking point?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

I got my season ticket renewal package so it looks like the ICE are in for another season in Winnipeg!

Interestingly, I was at last night's game chatting with someone in a position to know, and they told me that only about 600 fans actually passed through the doors for the game. It certainly looked like that, given that the 1,800 seat arena did not even look half full. Of course, I'm sure there were a lot more tickets distributed to season ticket holders that didn't show for whatever reason, but still... this was a night with no Jets game, no Moose game, no marquee sports event on TV, nice weather (no snowstorm or deep freeze), and the team only pulls in a Winkler Flyers-type number. And this is a team that's flying high, they can legitimately say they are one of the very best junior hockey teams in the league and hell, in the world. I find it amazing that they can't pack the joint with the team they have... 600 fans, probably 1/3 of which is minor hockey teams and their parents, is a very weak number.

I really enjoy watching the team and I hope they stay, but considering that the team has to pay 100% of the bills with probably only a fraction (40%? 60%?) of the revenue of the other teams, it doesn't seem like a situation that's tenable for the long term. At this point you have to wonder if even a new arena will fix this.

Sadly don't really think Winnipeg can support NHL, AHL and CHL all at once, heck even the Jets are only drawing 13.5K now! Calgary can but they are 1.6M not 800K like Winnipeg!

[esquire]

For what it's worth, all 3 teams are coming close to rebounding from their COVID dips. The Jets are only about 1,000 a game off their pre-covid pace. Even the Moose are bouncing back, as are the ICE. The trouble for the ICE is that their number is way, way below the league average.