Low income housing in your cities urban neighborhoods.

[muppet]

Are there pics of reaccommodated favelas? The kind made much more livable (and potential for all informal housing)?

*edit found an example, halfway there in Haiti

[homebucket]

^ That reminds me of a recent picture I saw from SF Reddit:



https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisc...of_noe_valley/

[Obadno]

Older post war Low income housing:

Several blocks of these: https://goo.gl/maps/E2aJDamFtQsYU62S7



I know its not very urban lol

These ones:


Being replaced with something like this:



A couple of actually dense ones built in the last 10 years:







Same group as those started on a new one:




But generally the state/city do a lot more with vouchers and subsidies and things like that then out and out low income projects

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by niwell

Towship version: https://goo.gl/maps/T2XuQKXDNrHyP8N56

Integrated suburban version: https://goo.gl/maps/W8hxuXWVDsbey1DK8

Unrelated but, wow, Johannesburg sprawls. I’m just sizing it up with my fingers on a phone, but it’s shaped like an isosceles triangle that’s 50km x 80km x 80km at least.

That’s basically LA densities for a developing world city.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by niwell

Interesting, this looks almost exactly like Reconstruction and Development (RDP) housing that's common in newer sections of South African townships and occasionally the suburban fringe. It's not exactly social housing, but heavily subsidized. Newer developments often include low-income market rate components and in addition to single family homes feature 4-6 storey walkups. They've had varying degrees of success, to say the least.

Towship version: https://goo.gl/maps/T2XuQKXDNrHyP8N56

Integrated suburban version: https://goo.gl/maps/W8hxuXWVDsbey1DK8

It’s indeed very similar. Brazil has been doing it since the 1960’s and despite Brazilian urban areas being much denser than either the US or South Africa, public housing in form of highrises is almost non existent and even midrises are relatively rare.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by muppet

Are there pics of reaccommodated favelas? The kind made much more livable (and potential for all informal housing)?

*edit found an example, halfway there in Haiti]

Not sure what would qualify as reaccommodated, but if you zoom into Rocinha, we’ll see several improvements.

There’s a common misconception abroad that Brazilian slums are desperately poor places. It’s not: running water, electricity and all the main domestic goods are available in close to 100% of the households.

Favelas are basically a place where the poorest families live in in big metropolises where land is more expensive. In mid-sized cities slums are virtually inexistent

[sopas ej]

Senior citizen housing counts as low-income housing, no?

I think one of the more successful low-income/senior housing projects in Los Angeles is Angelus Plaza, which was constructed in downtown LA in during the 1980s. I believe it's the largest low-income senior housing complex in the city, with well over 1,000 units or something.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by tech12

Chinatown, SF:


The Ping Yuen Mural on Stockton Street in Chinatown. San Francisco by Abariltur, on Flickr

My old stomping grounds!

[TWAK]

It's not urban, but the entire county? Trailers are very cheap.

[muppet]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Not sure what would qualify as reaccommodated, but if you zoom into Rocinha, we’ll see several improvements.

There’s a common misconception abroad that Brazilian slums are desperately poor places. It’s not: running water, electricity and all the main domestic goods are available in close to 100% of the households.

Favelas are basically a place where the poorest families live in in big metropolises where land is more expensive. In mid-sized cities slums are virtually inexistent

Thanks for that. Yep Rocinha definitely has parts that are getting there -straight off this building shows how one day they might be 'cleaned up' - I wonder if one day the former favelas of the world will become Ye Olde Cittys of the future, all polished up and painted pastel a century or three later, like many former slum districts with informal housing in Europe:






Beijing for example stuck traditional rooves on many illegal add-ons that proliferated throughout the 20th Century



www.china-roads.fr


before:


http://wanderingdanny.com, www.greatmirror.com


I remember talking to people who used to live in informal housing (the kind more established over the decades) and what surprised me was that they missed the space. They said they actually had way more space in their own home-built dwelling than their expensive apartment now rented/ bought.

[muppet]

Shenzhen is another example, the only major city in China that's preserving its informal architecture from the 1990s, and working with it in urban regeneration schemes - the rest of the country is undergoing the world's largest ever demolition programme as they get bulldozed en masse.

I honestly think they'll become attractions for their lively streetlife and mined with interest, as opposed to the usual corporate towers and anchor malls.



https://www.amusingplanet.com/2016/0...-of-china.html


Each district is given a gameplan and budget to attract architects (the kind who reinvent rather than kick out), shoppers and visitors:



www.domusweb.it

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by muppet

Thanks for that. Yep Rocinha definitely has parts that are getting there -straight off this building shows how one day they might be 'cleaned up' - I wonder if one day the former favelas of the world will become Ye Olde Cittys of the future, all polished up and painted pastel a century or three later, like many former slum districts with informal housing in Europe:

Brazilian (SSC) forumers absolute hate the favelas. Given the mood of that forum, they would support a complete removal even without giving people new housing. Aporophobia there is rampant.

The thing is, those big favelas like Rocinha (Brazil largest, 70k inh.) or Paraisópolis (42k inh.) won't go anywhere, so they will probably be undergoing improvements by its own dwellers.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Unrelated but, wow, Johannesburg sprawls. I’m just sizing it up with my fingers on a phone, but it’s shaped like an isosceles triangle that’s 50km x 80km x 80km at least.

That’s basically LA densities for a developing world city.

It's a huge city in terms of area, and the Apartheid-era spatial separation policies for urban growth persist resulting in big swaths of land vacant land. The area you cited contains close to 11 million people, which jumps to about 15 if you include Pretoria. I've actually found there's a lot of similarities to LA in terms of look and vibes.

Densities are extremely disparate, with well-off areas of the Northern suburbs being very low, while seemingly "single family" areas of townships are probably denser than most of central Toronto (which admittedly by developing world standards isn't *that* high). Almost everyone has backyard shacks which are rented out, largely to migrant workers. Hillbrow (highrise) and Alexandra (lowrise) do reach some pretty crazy densities, and are extremely overcrowded.

10,000 - 15,000 people per square km: https://goo.gl/maps/bdJaUwCn7uxzPUQd8

~30,000:
https://goo.gl/maps/RgeG2wucUADY54tF8

70,000 plus:
https://goo.gl/maps/WCswF7jAiXpzfwiR8

less than 3,000:
https://goo.gl/maps/KpTpnxWT6VbTbXfz9

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by niwell

It's a huge city in terms of area, and the Apartheid-era spatial separation policies for urban growth persist resulting in big swaths of land vacant land. The area you cited contains close to 11 million people, which jumps to about 15 if you include Pretoria. I've actually found there's a lot of similarities to LA in terms of look and vibes.

Densities are extremely disparate, with well-off areas of the Northern suburbs being very low, while seemingly "single family" areas of townships are probably denser than most of central Toronto (which admittedly by developing world standards isn't *that* high). Almost everyone has backyard shacks which are rented out, largely to migrant workers. Hillbrow (highrise) and Alexandra (lowrise) do reach some pretty crazy densities, and are extremely overcrowded.

10,000 - 15,000 people per square km: https://goo.gl/maps/bdJaUwCn7uxzPUQd8

~30,000:
https://goo.gl/maps/RgeG2wucUADY54tF8

70,000 plus:
https://goo.gl/maps/WCswF7jAiXpzfwiR8

less than 3,000:
https://goo.gl/maps/KpTpnxWT6VbTbXfz9

Do Hillbrow and CBD as a whole are or will be coming back as it’s happening pretty much everywhere in the world?

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Do Hillbrow and CBD as a whole are or will be coming back as it’s happening pretty much everywhere in the world?

Yes and no. COVID and associated lockdowns hit the area hard. That said Hillbrow, Berea and Yeoville have seen new some development and renovation of existing buildings, but it's still very low income and hijacked buildings remains a persistent problem. Most new developments are student housing or single room occupancy (often occupied by more than one person) buildings. The CBD proper has seen a number of office conversions into residential, and the areas around the big banks are being redeveloped fairly successfully. Anglo American mining left their downtown offices which was a big blow, but do intend on redeveloping their campuses into a mixed-use area. This is resulting in an emerging safe walkable corridor across the CBD connecting to the managed arts/entertainment districts that are quite nice.

I have a few friends who live right in the CBD and enjoy it, but it's still very rough around the edges. Very much a two steps forward, one back situation and it's quite precarious. If municipal services deteriorate further or a big economic crash is experienced things could fall apart easily.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by niwell

Yes and no. COVID and associated lockdowns hit the area hard. That said Hillbrow, Berea and Yeoville have seen new some development and renovation of existing buildings, but it's still very low income and hijacked buildings remains a persistent problem. Most new developments are student housing or single room occupancy (often occupied by more than one person) buildings. The CBD proper has seen a number of office conversions into residential, and the areas around the big banks are being redeveloped fairly successfully. Anglo American mining left their downtown offices which was a big blow, but do intend on redeveloping their campuses into a mixed-use area. This is resulting in an emerging safe walkable corridor across the CBD connecting to the managed arts/entertainment districts that are quite nice.

I have a few friends who live right in the CBD and enjoy it, but it's still very rough around the edges. Very much a two steps forward, one back situation and it's quite precarious. If municipal services deteriorate further or a big economic crash is experienced things could fall apart easily.

I see. Trendy bars and restaurants and luxury reconversions are still not on the radar yet.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Yuri

I see. Trendy bars and restaurants and luxury reconversions are still not on the radar yet.

Plenty of trendy bars and restaurants but mostly oriented to the younger and/or more artistic/hipster side of things. A bit more edgy than luxe so early stages. There are a few luxury conversions but the main selling point is luxury at a (relatively) low cost compared to Rosebank or Sandton.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by niwell

Plenty of trendy bars and restaurants but mostly oriented to the younger and/or more artistic/hipster side of things. A bit more edgy than luxe so early stages. There are a few luxury conversions but the main selling point is luxury at a (relatively) low cost compared to Rosebank or Sandton.

A bit like Downtown São Paulo then. There are already luxury restaurants and bars, but mostly is artistic/hipster as well. Downtown São Paulo is already growing faster than the rest of the city for the past 20 years and today is one of hottest real estate markets, but prices are still reasonable.

[homebucket]

Here's a new one that just broke ground. 180 Jones Street in the Tenderloin.

Specs:
- 9 floors
- 70 units (100% affordable, 1 on-site manager unit, 35 subsidized units for homeless, 34 units for low-income residents making between 40% and 65% of the area’s median income)
- Additional amenities: ground-floor community room, tenant lobby, property management with 24-hour desk clerk, on-site social workers, free fiber internet (courtesy of the City’s Fiber to Housing program), and a second-story landscaped courtyard open to the street, providing much needed green relief to the dense urban neighborhood

The site:
https://goo.gl/maps/rhUPNst6WSmuyVKq8



https://sfyimby.com/2022/06/permanen...francisco.html

[ilcapo]

In Sweden there is no housing specifically designed for low income families or low income individuals.

There are of course units for those with social problems, where rent is paid by the government. Such as "stödboende" for those who need support in some way.

Also housing designed for older individuals (usually 65+ or similar) as well as but those are not necessary under rent control.

What is most similar to public housing is "allmännyttan" which which consists mostly of flats owned by the local council. Unlike its counterparts in Great Britain, for instance, the Swedish Public Housing has never had any upper income restrictions, so anyone can apply for them.

The areas that tend to have the most lower income residents are the "million programme" suburbs. These suburbs were built during the 60s and 70s and 1 million homes were built during 10 years.

Some of these areas were attractive at the time, but many of them are considered unattractive today due to their "commieblock"-looks, and theres even proposals from some Political Parties to demolish some of them.

Below is Rosengård in Malmö, where Zlatan Ibrahimovic grew up.