Big corporations are buying up homes and “eroding the American dream of homeownership

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Just IMO, makes a house look way better and way more upscale with a stone fence/wall and some landscaping to complement it (with iron gate at the end of the driveway).

Yeah it can look cheap if it's just a bare fence in a treeless, large lot, newly built subdivision. In established suburbs with mature landscaping, fences almost always enhance the aesthetics.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

My brother lives in a newer sub in Michigan, and all the new subs there have fence bans, as it's considered lower-class. It's probably bc fences are associated with older, working class areas, where you often have fences. Plus people are crazy about lawns, and kids are often running between yards.

It's great for the invisible fence industry, however. Pools obviously have required gates, though.

I literally never heard about this dynamic until just now so probably a Midwest thing? In upstate NY, no one had fences just because no one had fences. Not part of the suburban culture like it is out west.

Perhaps chain link fences are associated with poor areas but they are actually expensive and ugly and you don't actually see new ones put up outside commercial use.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by chris08876

They do look nice but not cheap. It's why the price per foot is so much as they factor the labor.

Stone walls are incredibly expensive. You pay extra for the super-distressed, falling-down, covered-in-moss look. Northern Westchester County, NY and Fairfield County, CT are thick with stone walls.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by J

Perhaps chain link fences are associated with poor areas but they are actually expensive and ugly and you don't actually see new ones put up outside commercial use.

Yeah, many HOAs ban chain link fences, specifically. They're the cheapest type of fence. Plus, dogs can see what's going on several yards away, and so they probably bark more than they would if they were penned in by a wood privacy fence. Where I live, there is a fair amount of front yard chain link + intimidating dogs:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1235...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1223...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1241...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1224...7i16384!8i8192

[Investing In Chicago]

Chain link fences are terrible, I certainly wouldn't want to look at a house / neighborhood with chain link fences.

I think banning fences is probably more associated with new developments/subdivisons as they seem to typically strive for more uniformity.

I've never heard of fences being banned in older, more established communities.

Front Fences are popular in the city of Chicago, and aside from chain link fences, I think they actually contribute to the look/feel of a neighborhood.

[JManc]

Chain link fences certainly are ugly (had no idea they were cheap though) but yeah, they are 100% banned in most neighborhoods. The problem in a neighborhood like mine (in Houston) is wood fences are that they rot like 5 minutes after you install them.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by JManc

Chain link fences certainly are ugly (had no idea they were cheap though) but yeah, they are 100% banned in most neighborhoods. The problem in a neighborhood like mine (in Houston) is wood fences are that they rot like 5 minutes after you install them.

Shouldn't there be some native tree species lumber that is naturally rot resistant? Here in CA we use a lot of redwood as it's naturally rot resistant.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Shouldn't there be some native tree species lumber that is naturally rot resistant? Here in CA we use a lot of redwood as it's naturally rot resistant.

I would think around here, you could use pretty much anything since the humidity and precipitation is so low but yes in Houston you can use hardwoods or pressure treated fencing but they are $$$ and not worth it and you have to split the cost with the neighbor who aren't often willing to pitch in.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Crawford

My brother lives in a newer sub in Michigan, and all the new subs there have fence bans, as it's considered lower-class. It's probably bc fences are associated with older, working class areas, where you often have fences. Plus people are crazy about lawns, and kids are often running between yards.

It's great for the invisible fence industry, however. Pools obviously have required gates, though.

Many of Philadelphia's suburbs have front yard fence bans. You can't erect a fence in any form without approval from the township, which gives them creative license to insert their standards. When you do see them, they tend to be custom and expensive. You'll see some fences on front yards in leafy suburbs where there's also a stone wall, usually as a gate into the driveway etc.

Fences are generally allowed in backyards so long as they're not taller than 6 feet. I feel like so many people have pools and thus require a fence that there really isn't any taboo around it. People tend to be more focused on the quality of the materials associated with the fence. Wood -> Composite -> PVC -> Chain Link.

[Riverranchdrone]

Originally Posted by JManc

Chain link fences certainly are ugly (had no idea they were cheap though) but yeah, they are 100% banned in most neighborhoods. The problem in a neighborhood like mine (in Houston) is wood fences are that they rot like 5 minutes after you install them.

I see alot of wooden fences here in Texas. The problem is no one seals or coats their fences to protect them. Bare wood in the elements wont last long without protection.

[craigs]

Fences are ubiquitous in California suburbs. I cannot think of a single suburban house that I, my family, or my friends have lived in that didn't come with fencing along the sides and back.

That said, front fences are not as common. I see them around Los Angeles, especially in the San Fernando Valley, but they're more like decorative walls--low brick and wrought-iron combos, or "horse fencing," that you can see through/over.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by JManc

No they're not. Largely unnecessary for most people in the suburbs in the country that's all. Unless you have a pool...

Originally Posted by Crawford

My brother lives in a newer sub in Michigan, and all the new subs there have fence bans, as it's considered lower-class. It's probably bc fences are associated with older, working class areas, where you often have fences. Plus people are crazy about lawns, and kids are often running between yards.

It's great for the invisible fence industry, however. Pools obviously have required gates, though.

I've never heard of this. In southern Ontario, a high quality wood fence for the backyard is desirable. With the rapid increases of wood prices plus inflation I can imagine they must cost a fortune to install in 2023.

Good fences make good neighboUrs

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by JManc

Chain link fences certainly are ugly (had no idea they were cheap though) but yeah, they are 100% banned in most neighborhoods. The problem in a neighborhood like mine (in Houston) is wood fences are that they rot like 5 minutes after you install them.

The house my folks bought in 2019 had been in the hands of the original owner who had it built in 1953 (with an awesome '70s addition overlooking the backyard). Large bungalow on a good sized wide 100'x135' lot in an idyllic mature neighbourhood.

He was in his 90s when he passed and then his kids sold their childhood home. Old school Italian guy that put in 2 apple trees, a grape arbour (can produce 20-24 bottles of red wine), tomato garden and a large 20'x40' inground pool, and really nice landscaping around the front and backyards.
Dude was so old school he was curing his own meats in the basement. I bet his Soppressata was da bomb with the homemade vino

Previous owner installed a white chain link fence for the backyard and surprisingly it isn't horrible. It's not really noticeable from the street and the back part is completely covered in ivy in the summer and leaves change color in the fall until they drop.
Amazing how white chain link doesn't look near as awful/white trash as the natural metal grey color.

[KevinFromTexas]

I think people are missing the most disturbing part of this, which is that corporations are buying up houses and driving up costs and also sitting on properties until the market improves so that actual families and individuals can't afford them. This isn't the only area where companies are doing this. Go read up on the complaints about Ticket Master and others that are snapping up tickets and turning around selling them for many times what they paid. And if you think that's crazy, I'm sure you're cool with paying thousands of dollars to go see whoever is going to lose at the Super Bowl in two weeks.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

I think people are missing the most disturbing part of this, which is that corporations are buying up houses and driving up costs and also sitting on properties until the market improves so that actual families and individuals can't afford them. This isn't the only area where companies are doing this. Go read up on the complaints about Ticket Master and others that are snapping up tickets and turning around selling them for many times what they paid. And if you think that's crazy, I'm sure you're cool with paying thousands of dollars to go see whoever is going to lose at the Super Bowl in two weeks.

many are on board/same page, HH, me, you, others.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

I think people are missing the most disturbing part of this, which is that corporations are buying up houses and driving up costs and also sitting on properties until the market improves so that actual families and individuals can't afford them. This isn't the only area where companies are doing this. Go read up on the complaints about Ticket Master and others that are snapping up tickets and turning around selling them for many times what they paid. And if you think that's crazy, I'm sure you're cool with paying thousands of dollars to go see whoever is going to lose at the Super Bowl in two weeks.

You forgot the part about how this forces people to rent, and so many people are having to rent that it's driving up the average rent. Supply and demand. And, when the average rent in a city gets high enough, then you have major landlords such as the Hawthorn corporation which owns numerous apartment complexes all across Asheville, suddenly refusing any sort of governmental rent subsidies. They can refuse them, not have to deal with any sort of government oversight or paperwork, and just demand a tenant who can pay their rent outright. There was a story in the Asheville paper this week about a disabled veteran and his young daughter getting the boot from their Hawthorn apartment because of this.

The thrust of the gist here is that this is artificial inflation of the housing market and the rental market, and we should pay attention now before it all completely collapses, as this sort of thing always ends up doing.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

You forgot the part about how this forces people to rent, and so many people are having to rent that it's driving up the average rent. Supply and demand. And, when the average rent in a city gets high enough, then you have major landlords such as the Hawthorn corporation which owns numerous apartment complexes all across Asheville, suddenly refusing any sort of governmental rent subsidies. They can refuse them, not have to deal with any sort of government oversight or paperwork, and just demand a tenant who can pay their rent outright. There was a story in the Asheville paper this week about a disabled veteran and his young daughter getting the boot from their Hawthorn apartment because of this.

The thrust of the gist here is that this is artificial inflation of the housing market and the rental market, and we should pay attention now before it all completely collapses, as this sort of thing always ends up doing.

And what about new constructions? In general, is the US adding lots of few units? Maybe with lots of units added, prices could be kept at reasonable levels regardless big companies role.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by Yuri

And what about new constructions? In general, is the US adding lots of few units? Maybe with lots of units added, prices could be kept at reasonable levels regardless big companies role.

What about them? Corporations are buying up tens of thousands of units. Also, at least in this area, even if those units aren't getting bought by investors, they aren't being built as actual housing anyway. They're being built spefically to serve as short-term rental units for tourists. The situation isn't bad in Greenville yet, but the historic, in-town, "charming" neighborhoods in Asheville are hollowing out.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

What about them? Corporations are buying up tens of thousands of units. Also, at least in this area, even if those units aren't getting bought by investors, they aren't being built as actual housing anyway. They're being built spefically to serve as short-term rental units for tourists. The situation isn't bad in Greenville yet, but the historic, in-town, "charming" neighborhoods in Asheville are hollowing out.

Well then they should build even more. I'm sure Asheville's charming neighborhoods are super pro development and not NIMBYs though?

[jmecklenborg]

Airbnb rentals are a non-issue in most of the United States, since most towns and cities in the United States attract zero tourism. Or to be more specific, there is probably a baseline of travel that exists everywhere (local weddings, traveling youth league sports), with a handful of places attracting exceptional tourism (ski towns, beach towns, Las Vegas, New Orleans, etc.)

In areas where too many people have created Airbnbs, market forces will motivate their return to owner-occupancy or traditional rentals.