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  #61  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dchan View Post
Would you live in a mass timber building?
possibly.

mass timber is certainly a huge step up in build quality compared to stick frame, IMO.

but there's still this inherent bias i have against building large-scale structures with one of the world's most combustible materials.

it just rubs me the wrong way i guess.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
while nowhere near as well-known or common as the LA dingbat, some outter chicago nabes/inner-ring burbs that were developed in the 50s/60s maintained the city's tradition of building masonry flats in some areas, but with very different post-war styling that makes them look quite different from the early 20th century stuff.

i don't know if that's enough to qualify as a bonafide example of "a postwar regional vernacular", but i've never seen post-war 2/3-flats like these in other cities at scale.


https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9768...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9709...7i16384!8i8192
That's interesting, as my area has a similar version but they are doubled up:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1208...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1240...7i16384!8i8192
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  #63  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 4:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post



What's wrong with you people? Mumbled, half-hearted complaining about bland banal architecture blah blah, and the one building in this thread that actually looks fun to live in, with balconies, angles, curves (and particularly the penthouse apartments with the picture windows and pitched skylights) is the one you castigate?

The faux-historicist examples upthread are embarrassing and sad. What an inauthentic way to affect a 'sense of place'. Whereas this building actually does seem to belong to Southern California. De gustibus non est disputandum, but it also seems to belong to a more optimistic and energetic cultural moment.

Besides, it's actually good urbanism for its context. Staggered massing, stepbacks, a strong corner, and good street-level engagement across its entire frontage (Google Maps shows it currently has two curbside restaurants and other active businesses, as someone commented). Yeah, the parking podium, but that gives the apartments awesome views and allows the restaurants to offer customer parking (which might be more difficult economically if parking was underground, and the building is in LA). The parking entrance is on a back alley and doesn't interrupt the street frontage. Its neighbors on this corner, btw, are gas stations and parking lots.
Take away the second and third floors and I'd like it. The parking podium depersonalizes it and jumbles the effect. I agree that active businesses make things look nicer.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 5:06 PM
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I think about all the wood framed structures with piecemeal renos and shoddy wiring that continue to stand after decades of use. I would sleep fairly peaceful in a mass timber building. I wouldn't in one built with OSB panels and beams. I'm more concerned with mositure/unknown leaks than fire.

Timber concrete composites, etc. will likely supplant mass timber of high rises.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 1:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist View Post
All of these 4 - 7 floor buildings popping up in towns and cities across the country largely do look the same but we desperately need new housing and we need more walkable communities, which this type of housing is helping with. They are also better than vacant lots or surface parking, which in a lot of locations is what existed previously.


America, the Bland
Across the country, new developments are starting to look the same, raising fears that cities are losing their unique charm. But in the current housing crisis, does that matter?

Jan. 20, 2023
New York Times


"Charles Mudede was at the Post Pike Bar in Seattle in November, nursing a glass of white wine and having a heated discussion about a topic he felt strongly about: the state of new development in the city.

Last year, residential construction in Seattle hit a record high with over 13,000 units built, according to data from Seattle in Progress, an organization that tracks construction. Mr. Mudede, 53, who has lived in the city for 30 years, was expressing his distaste for some of those “architectural abominations.”

“What’s that new building?” he asked the bartender. “It’s an apartment building, but they put some bright blue, splashy thing on its facade..."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/20/r...hitecture.html
Hard hitting 15 years too late reporting
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  #66  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 6:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Yeah that's pretty wretched. Its the culture though. Nothing about Long Island says modern to me. Even the new station investments by the LIRR are mostly retrograde ho-hum boring as hell conservative.
They spent $120 million on upgrades to the main LIRR station here in Hicksville a few years ago. Amounted to plasticy looking weather shelters over platforms, and I can't identify any other major improvement -- cosmetic, or otherwise. I'm really fully understanding now how corrupt this area is, and always has been.

George Santos being my new congressman seems to be the icing on that cake -- which he figuratively just jumped out of in drag BTW....lol
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  #67  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 2:42 PM
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When I worked with the Ontario Building Code a decade or so ago I got to see the results of flammability tests on mass timber / new wood composite beams. While not as good as a concrete masonry build it's quite a bit more survivable than light metal or even some steel beam construction. Tha latter will deflect to the point of structural failure long before a mass timber beam will go up in flames - they're quite survivable.

Stick buildings aren't really bad once complete either - it's the construction phase that's dangerous. As mentioned above though I'd avoid due to moisture concerns, as well as lack of noise attenuation.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 2:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Island View Post
They spent $120 million on upgrades to the main LIRR station here in Hicksville a few years ago. Amounted to plasticy looking weather shelters over platforms, and I can't identify any other major improvement -- cosmetic, or otherwise. I'm really fully understanding now how corrupt this area is, and always has been.
The Hicksville station has massive capacity improvements. Additional track, reverse commuting capacity, larger waiting rooms, longer platforms, new elevators and escalators, etc. Everything costs 2-3x as much locally. Has little to do with corruption. It's just much higher cost structure.

The LIRR system has built a 40% system capacity increase. That takes billions.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 2:51 PM
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Also, the newest LIRR station is Elmont, near the Queens border. I don't see what's so bad about the station design. It isn't some epic Calatrava station, but it seems fairly contemporary and reasonably attractive and functional. Artwork and public areas seem fine.

https://newyorkyimby.com/2022/10/mta...ng-island.html
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  #70  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
When I worked with the Ontario Building Code a decade or so ago I got to see the results of flammability tests on mass timber / new wood composite beams. While not as good as a concrete masonry build it's quite a bit more survivable than light metal or even some steel beam construction. Tha latter will deflect to the point of structural failure long before a mass timber beam will go up in flames - they're quite survivable.

Stick buildings aren't really bad once complete either - it's the construction phase that's dangerous. As mentioned above though I'd avoid due to moisture concerns, as well as lack of noise attenuation.
Do you know what the loss of moment strength is for mass timbers like CLTs after their outside layers get charred?
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  #71  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Also, the newest LIRR station is Elmont, near the Queens border. I don't see what's so bad about the station design. It isn't some epic Calatrava station, but it seems fairly contemporary and reasonably attractive and functional. Artwork and public areas seem fine.

https://newyorkyimby.com/2022/10/mta...ng-island.html
Looks alright I guess. Although the roofing material looks like the stuff home DIYers use for their backyard sheds. Was this project sponsored by Home Depot?
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  #72  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 4:12 PM
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It's ugly but it's kinda fun. I could see it becoming a kitschy local landmark in 30 years. Cover the blank walls with some brightly colored murals, add some awnings and signage to the ground floor retail, add some landscaping and it could even look nice.
I think it's kinda fun too. https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0265...7i16384!8i8192

I actually prefer it to the faux budget thin-veneer historic crap. If only they had put screens or something over the openings of the parking floors, I would like it more. It looks like a building that's still under construction.

And thanks for posting this. Now I know where to go to try yet another Indonesian restaurant. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mr...!4d-118.408482

Looks like they serve pork so it's not a halal Indonesian place. Not that that matters to me.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 4:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
I think it's kinda fun too. https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0265...7i16384!8i8192

I actually prefer it to the faux budget thin-veneer historic crap. If only they had put screens or something over the openings of the parking floors, I would like it more. It looks like a building that's still under construction.
I like it a lot more now because it is built out. The restaurant has an outdoor dining area in front, and there is a bike share on the sidewalk of the other facade. Those two items automatically make the sidewalk feel more inviting & walkable to pedestrians.

IMO, one of the more important factors in "walkability" is the ground floor treatment of buildings along the walking corridor. Ground floors with bland & flat glass storefronts are usually pretty boring to walk around.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2023, 2:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The Hicksville station has massive capacity improvements. Additional track, reverse commuting capacity, larger waiting rooms, longer platforms, new elevators and escalators, etc. Everything costs 2-3x as much locally. Has little to do with corruption. It's just much higher cost structure.

The LIRR system has built a 40% system capacity increase. That takes billions.
Believe me, I'll be happy to be wrong about my initial post.

Actually, Hicksville is set to undergo quite a few changes this year, cosmetically. More about making the community walkable near the LIRR. Downtown rezoning/renovation. Taking out a lot of commuter parking lots just under the elevated trestle. That's nearly half a mile. There is a lot of potential here. However, any apartments are going to be confined to 5 stories or below.

Last edited by Lost Island; Jan 31, 2023 at 3:18 AM.
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  #75  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2023, 10:36 AM
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Thanks for sharing the link.
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  #76  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
my main problem with medium rise buildings: too much stucco. It is almost always done badly here in Canada.
Stucco should never be used in the north. It always gets very dirty looking and too often moisture gets through and rots the wood underneath it.

Homes in my community have had their stucco removed and replaced with siding. The look new and fresh again and they are about 16-17 year old homes.
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  #77  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 12:37 AM
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Would you live in a mass timber building?
My apartment building was built in 2014 and it's concrete construction. It received a silver LEED certification. It is so quiet in here. I don't hear hardly any noise. The people above have to do something really really really loud for us to hear anything. You can hear people in the middle of the hallway units if you pass by their doors..but not from our apartment.

They built a third building last year to complete our complex. That building was wood with the pieces shipped put together and a large crane lifted them into place. I am told they can hear a decent amount of noise from inside those units.

So no...I am going to try to hold out in my apartment as long as I can afford it. I love my unit.

Also, we know for a fact the fire suppression worked. A unit on the second floor had a kitchen fire on Mother's Day 2021. The oven caught fire and set the cabinets on fire too. The main smoke detector in our units that set off the sprinklers kicked in and spewed the water in the apartment. However, it sent a lot of that water into the hallway and then it started finding it's way into the unit below it which is right next door to us. That apartment basically got rained on and some of the water found a path to our second bathroom near our front door. We just had a tiny bit of water damage. The family company that developed the whole neighborhood and owns the apartments had Balfor onsite within an hour or two and they started remediation immediately. They used purple wallboard which supposedly doesn't get as moldy so they had fans and dehumidifiers in the hallways on two floors, the two apartments most affected and in our bathroom for over a week. So the concrete construction makes me feel a lot better than living in what I call match stick buildings. Also, our local township does require all housing units to have sprinklers in them since the 1980's. I think every new apartment complex in the US should have them...I don't think most of them do.
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  #78  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 3:08 AM
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Originally Posted by PhillyRising View Post
Stucco should never be used in the north. It always gets very dirty looking and too often moisture gets through and rots the wood underneath it.

Homes in my community have had their stucco removed and replaced with siding. The look new and fresh again and they are about 16-17 year old homes.
I cringe when I see older houses up north sided. It's usually cheap vinyl shit that cracks and fades unevenly and clashes with the pre-war aesthetic of the house. Tons of houses in my hometown had their clapboards replaced with siding and it just looks terrible.

More contemporary looking homes look great sided.
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  #79  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 1:28 PM
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I cringe when I see older houses up north sided. It's usually cheap vinyl shit that cracks and fades unevenly and clashes with the pre-war aesthetic of the house. Tons of houses in my hometown had their clapboards replaced with siding and it just looks terrible.

More contemporary looking homes look great sided.
I have noticed that almost all of the new home construction here in suburban Philadelphia is no longer using stucco. There was a big story in the local news here about 10 years ago of people owning Toll Brothers homes that were not all that old and the wood underneath their stucco was rotted because water got through.

It's not uncommon any more to see homes around here that were covered in stucco to have it all removed and replaced with modern siding or even brick. The ones that still have it from years ago look beat.
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  #80  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by PhillyRising View Post
Stucco should never be used in the north. It always gets very dirty looking and too often moisture gets through and rots the wood underneath it.
are you simply talking about modern EIFS fake stucco cladding systems?

because i grew up in a 100+ year old traditional stucco home in suburban chicago, surrounded by hundreds of other such homes, and they've held up great.

here are some very typical side streets in the burb i grew up in, full of early 20th century stucco-clad houses:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0706...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0706...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0738...7i16384!8i8192
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 2, 2023 at 5:48 PM.
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