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  #3041  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 5:39 PM
Abner Abner is offline
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I'm not familiar with newer unit size requirements (as opposed to parking requirements, open space requirements, etc.) and how they compare to older unit sizes. Can somebody give a brief explanation?
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  #3042  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 5:50 PM
Taft Taft is offline
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Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
Looks ok to me so far and the store is to be at ground level. Dominick's usually does a decent job when part of larger/existing structures . Then again it would be a shame to do away with the crappy lot and the double wide bank trailer that inhabits the site....
True that Dominick's does a pretty good job at ground level. Would have been nice to see that in the rendering. Does anyone know Dominick's is the only retail tenant in the project or is there other space available?

Maybe I should clarify my position: *love* the project (especially given what's there), but was disappointed with the render. Architecturally, I have no problems, but the render is so lifeless, doesn't show how the building fits into the streetwall or against its neighbors.

Contrast that render with a similar project at Belmont and Lincoln:

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/image...collection.jpg
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  #3043  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 6:23 PM
emathias emathias is offline
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Originally Posted by Abner View Post
I'm not familiar with newer unit size requirements (as opposed to parking requirements, open space requirements, etc.) and how they compare to older unit sizes. Can somebody give a brief explanation?
I don't think it's a city-wide thing, it's mainly local residents associations, like WLCO, that "require" larger average unit sizes in order to not impede a development.

WLCO actively pushes for a high number 1400+ square foot units. For the life of me, I can't fathom why, since market prices will make it damn near impossible to sell a large number of units of that size unless they get better services in the area, and they won't get better services until they increase density, which is hard to do when you're insisting on such enormous home sizes.

For reference, 1400 square feet is only slightly smaller than the average new single family home was 30 years ago - in other words, in a rational world it'd be absurdly large for a central city condo or apartment.
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  #3044  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
I don't think it's a city-wide thing, it's mainly local residents associations, like WLCO, that "require" larger average unit sizes in order to not impede a development.

WLCO actively pushes for a high number 1400+ square foot units. For the life of me, I can't fathom why, since market prices will make it damn near impossible to sell a large number of units of that size unless they get better services in the area, and they won't get better services until they increase density, which is hard to do when you're insisting on such enormous home sizes.

For reference, 1400 square feet is only slightly smaller than the average new single family home was 30 years ago - in other words, in a rational world it'd be absurdly large for a central city condo or apartment.
Actually, there are stipulations in the zoning code, very briefly and roughly summarized as follows:

- The average square footage of all units in the property must be above 500 sq ft
- No more than X percent of the units can be efficiencies (which includes studios - X varies between 0-20% depending on the classification)

Other important restrictions:
- Setbacks usually mandate about 1/3 of the lot be open space (varies depending on the classification and the size of the lot)
- minimum 1 off-street parking space per unit
- Minimum lot area of X per unit (this severely limits the unit count, a typical Chicago lot of 25x125 is allowed about:
1 unit in an R3 zone (many neighborhoods, including West Town, Lincoln Square, etc.)
3 units in an R4 zone (West Lincoln Park, West Lakeview, Wicker Park, Uptown, Rogers Park)
4 units in an R5 zone (Old Town, East Lincoln Park, East Lakeview, East Edgewater)
...with R6 being the only residential classification that would allow much of Chicago's residential housing stock to be built. And if you've looked at a zoning map lately, you see that R6 zoning is very, very few and far between.

Commercial zoning is a little more generous with the number of available units, but not much; only the highest 2 classifications allow for reasonable density (e.g. 4+ units per lot).

So you can quickly see how Chicago's existing vibrant low-rise neighborhoods are thoroughly unbuildable under existing zoning; the 50% efficiency, 50% parking ratio 4+1s. The old workman's cottages chopped up into 4 units. 2 buildings per lot in Pilsen. Large, full-depth courtyard buildings with 30+ units and zero off-street parking. i.e. almost every Chicago residential vernacular: Non-conforming, all. Even the rush of lakefront highrises built in the R7 and R8 zones along the lakefront following the 1957 zoning code are of course now generally non-conforming, and are all would be subject to the price-inflating "Planned Development" shakedown process, as would anything over 110ft tall (the new zoning code got rid of R7 and R8).

That said, of course as Mr. Downtown always like to point out, zoning in this city is a political- and property-value-tool, not an actual land use tool, so "anythings possible" depending on who the alderman is.
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  #3045  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 9:35 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by Taft View Post
True that Dominick's does a pretty good job at ground level. Would have been nice to see that in the rendering. Does anyone know Dominick's is the only retail tenant in the project or is there other space available?

Maybe I should clarify my position: *love* the project (especially given what's there), but was disappointed with the render. Architecturally, I have no problems, but the render is so lifeless, doesn't show how the building fits into the streetwall or against its neighbors.

Contrast that render with a similar project at Belmont and Lincoln:

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/image...collection.jpg
The article says that National City has a 3000 sq ft lease also on the ground floor.

The render seems pretty basic, hopefully better visuals are provided at some point.
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  #3046  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 1:52 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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3/26/2008 10:00:00 PM Email this article • Print this article
Burnett brokers deal for West Loop mid-rise
Condo complex to help build Rosa Parks Apts.

By TIMOTHY INKLEBARGER
Contributing writer


A compromise plan for a proposed 9-story, mixed-use condo building in the West Loop could help finance a 94-unit affordable housing complex in West Humboldt Park.

Neighbors have negotiated for a year and a half over the condo development at 1260 W. Madison by Pickus Cos., arguing that the structure was too tall and dense for area. The original plan would have built two 13-story buildings, each standing 155 feet tall.

The compromise plan released last week would construct a 90-foot-tall modern glass building with 318-units, 343 parking spots and 16,000 square feet of retail space. Developer Joel Pickus said the planned development also includes a smaller 32-unit condo building with 8,500 square feet of retail space at 1300 W. Madison.
http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.a...16&TM=34095.32


3/26/2008 10:00:00 PM Email this article • Print this article
Development plugs along in Uptown
Sleek designs, vintage rehabs and a new movie theater complex in store for neighborhood

By LORRAINE SWANSON, Editor
http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.a...85&TM=34453.68
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  #3047  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 1:57 PM
emathias emathias is offline
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
...
- Minimum lot area of X per unit (this severely limits the unit count, a typical Chicago lot of 25x125 is allowed about:
1 unit in an R3 zone (many neighborhoods, including West Town, Lincoln Square, etc.)
3 units in an R4 zone (West Lincoln Park, West Lakeview, Wicker Park, Uptown, Rogers Park)
4 units in an R5 zone (Old Town, East Lincoln Park, East Lakeview, East Edgewater)
...with R6 being the only residential classification that would allow much of Chicago's residential housing stock to be built. And if you've looked at a zoning map lately, you see that R6 zoning is very, very few and far between.

Commercial zoning is a little more generous with the number of available units, but not much; only the highest 2 classifications allow for reasonable density (e.g. 4+ units per lot).

So you can quickly see how Chicago's existing vibrant low-rise neighborhoods are thoroughly unbuildable under existing zoning; the 50% efficiency, 50% parking ratio 4+1s. The old workman's cottages chopped up into 4 units. 2 buildings per lot in Pilsen. Large, full-depth courtyard buildings with 30+ units and zero off-street parking. i.e. almost every Chicago residential vernacular: Non-conforming, all. Even the rush of lakefront highrises built in the R7 and R8 zones along the lakefront following the 1957 zoning code are of course now generally non-conforming, and are all would be subject to the price-inflating "Planned Development" shakedown process, as would anything over 110ft tall (the new zoning code got rid of R7 and R8). ...
Wow, I knew the new code reduced the guaranteed right to density of the previous code, but I didn't realize it limited it by that degree. That's really, really disappointing, especially since the adjustments I've seen for being near an "L" station really aren't very generous. Were I the zoning czar, I think I'd be pushing for R6+ for anything mentioned in the Central Area Plan, and anything within 1/2 mile walk of an "L" or Metra station (in my mind, that would basically look like a diamond-shaped zone around each of them). If I was feeling cocky, I might also include any area with bus service above a certain level per resident. That would cover almost everywhere that's currently dense and almost anywhere else that density could be reasonably accommodated. Places that are currently best served by rail transit need density. I suspect at least some of those areas still have density-enabling zoning, but from what you've said it sounds like fewer do than should.
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  #3048  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 2:32 PM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
Actually, there are stipulations in the zoning code, very briefly and roughly summarized as follows.....
Very informative & interesting - thank you for posting.
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  #3049  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 2:39 PM
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
Wow, I knew the new code reduced the guaranteed right to density of the previous code, but I didn't realize it limited it by that degree. That's really, really disappointing, especially since the adjustments I've seen for being near an "L" station really aren't very generous. Were I the zoning czar, I think I'd be pushing for R6+ for anything mentioned in the Central Area Plan, and anything within 1/2 mile walk of an "L" or Metra station (in my mind, that would basically look like a diamond-shaped zone around each of them). If I was feeling cocky, I might also include any area with bus service above a certain level per resident. That would cover almost everywhere that's currently dense and almost anywhere else that density could be reasonably accommodated. Places that are currently best served by rail transit need density. I suspect at least some of those areas still have density-enabling zoning, but from what you've said it sounds like fewer do than should.
A few notes:
1. The Central Area is mostly zoned "D" for downtown zoning, which is moderately more generous than the neighborhood zoning but still has pretty low FARs (the highest as-of-right is 16, but most of the area is zoned for FAR of 3.0, 5.0, or 7.0)

2. Some of the 'bombed out' areas, namely East Garfield Park and parts of Bronzeville and Washington Park, are zoned for pretty good density (R5), but of course no one wants to live there so for now it's moot; however, eventually these could be pretty great dense neighborhoods.

3. The R3 classification needs to be re-written to allow 2-flats as of right, regardless. As it is now, 2-flats are only allowed in R3 in the cases where basically the entire street is already 2-flats. They created an "R3.5" to "solve" this problem, but almost nowhere is zoned R3.5 so it's moot.

4. The B/C zoning classifications need to be re-written so more of the classifications (e.g. in addition to B2, include C1 and B1) allow ground-floor residential as-of-right. By all means, still require it to conform to commercial standards (e.g. 13' ceilings) so it can be converted later if necessary. But in most neighborhoods there is way, way, WAY too much commercial zoning relative to the population density allowed by the residential zoning, leaving us with our hundreds of miles of desolate commercial streets in otherwise intact neighborhoods. If there is a demand for commercial space, the property owner will gladly do so because the income from commercial space is far greater than that of a residential unit; planners need not worry about residential units preventing a retail district. See Canadian cities like Toronto and Vancouver for how, by concentrating a limited amount of commercial zoning at certain intersections, even a bungalow-belt neighborhood of SFHs can have a lively ped-friendly retail district.

5. The shakedown procedures have got to end or be substantially re-worked. The most egregious is:
a. the "affordable housing" requirement, which of course only accomplishes making housing less affordable like rent control in NYC. Now, any upzoning requires either provision of "affordable" units, or a "contribution" to the affordable housing fund. Of course, this just increases the cost of development and thus, the cost of housing for anyone not lucky enough to be part of the "affordable housing" program. Of course, an upzoning for more density would otherwise improve the housing affordability issue, whereas the people who actually are exacerbating the affordability issue by tearing down vintage 3-flats to build luxury single-family home as in Bucktown and Lincoln Park can do so as of right with no contribution to the affordable housing fund. The city has got this exactly backwards, but that's because planners, people in gov't "housing departments", and "community activists" have a propensity to be communists with approximately zero concept of economics, market pricing, and development finance. Just pass a law to solve any problem!

b. The Planned Development process. I'd ideally get rid of it completely since it's basically turned into a shakedown that majorly increases the cost of development, with those costs not born by the people responsible for creating them (e.g. "the neighbors", aldermen, etc.). They're also pretty bad in being used to obliterate the historical Chicago urban form. See Central Station, all of those gated townhome communities in Lakeview and Lincoln Park, Dearborn Park, etc. Alleys? 25' lots? Street grid? Pssh, who needs 'em. The PD process's usefulness for things like placing a tower in the best part of a lot to alleviate light/air/wind concerns, planning accessory open space, finding the best parking access locations etc is overshadowed by the extortion that they are used for in practice.

6. Like you say, we need a "Transit-oriented Development" overlay for areas surrounding transit stations. In my ideal world, these would make private surface parking lots illegal (existing ones would stay as non-conforming, and public lots would be ok if they are available to transit users). For example that big Cole Taylor Bank parking lot right next to the Western-O'hare Blue Line stop really grates at my soul. Also, drive-thrus disallowed (like the drive-thru auto title loan place....also right at Western-O'hare Blue Line). Off-street parking requirements would be .5, instead of the measely ".75 within 600 ft of a rail station entrance" that we have now. And , higher housing density as well, as of right (Absolute minimum within 1/4 mile of transit stations should be R4, and commercial zoning should have absolute minimum allowable FAR of 3.0).


Voila,

Last edited by VivaLFuego; Mar 27, 2008 at 2:53 PM.
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  #3050  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 3:24 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post

3/26/2008 10:00:00 PM Email this article • Print this article
Development plugs along in Uptown
Sleek designs, vintage rehabs and a new movie theater complex in store for neighborhood

By LORRAINE SWANSON, Editor
http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.a...85&TM=34453.68
I highly doubt this is going to come together given the inexperience of the "developer" , the difficulties/cost of construction, and sheer economics concerning more condos in that neighborhood.

Personally I'd much prefer to see a multiplex theater/retail development that integrates (and refurbishes) the Uptown theater. Ideally the 4500 seat room would again double as a movie theater when not being used as a live venue instead of idling. Such a development would catalyze a lot more growth around Lawrence/Broadway.
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  #3051  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 3:49 PM
Abner Abner is offline
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
A few notes:

4. The B/C zoning classifications need to be re-written so more of the classifications (e.g. in addition to B2, include C1 and B1) allow ground-floor residential as-of-right. By all means, still require it to conform to commercial standards (e.g. 13' ceilings) so it can be converted later if necessary. But in most neighborhoods there is way, way, WAY too much commercial zoning relative to the population density allowed by the residential zoning, leaving us with our hundreds of miles of desolate commercial streets in otherwise intact neighborhoods.
Could it be that the Chicago model of commercial zoning--completely commercial strips every half-mile, or sometimes every mile--is kind of obsolete in some areas? Portland and Seattle follow more of a "node"-centered model of commercial development, where commercial activity in residential neighborhoods is centered around intersections rather than being in a strip along a street; this was a natural result of the growth patterns of those cities. This means that a through street isn't continuously commercial but has blocks of housing and commercial interspersed. It is still very walkable, and might even encourage cars to slow down a little bit on through streets.

Quote:
6. Like you say, we need a "Transit-oriented Development" overlay for areas surrounding transit stations. In my ideal world, these would make private surface parking lots illegal (existing ones would stay as non-conforming, and public lots would be ok if they are available to transit users). For example that big Cole Taylor Bank parking lot right next to the Western-O'hare Blue Line stop really grates at my soul. Also, drive-thrus disallowed (like the drive-thru auto title loan place....also right at Western-O'hare Blue Line). Off-street parking requirements would be .5, instead of the measely ".75 within 600 ft of a rail station entrance" that we have now. And , higher housing density as well, as of right (Absolute minimum within 1/4 mile of transit stations should be R4, and commercial zoning should have absolute minimum allowable FAR of 3.0).
Do off-street parking requirements really do any good? I suppose there is some externality element when developments cause more people to park on the street, but since people shouldn't be able to consider themselves "endowed" with abundant free street parking anyway, I don't understand why the market shouldn't determine whether new developments provide parking spaces, and if so how many.
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  #3052  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Abner View Post
Could it be that the Chicago model of commercial zoning--completely commercial strips every half-mile, or sometimes every mile--is kind of obsolete in some areas? Portland and Seattle follow more of a "node"-centered model of commercial development, where commercial activity in residential neighborhoods is centered around intersections rather than being in a strip along a street; this was a natural result of the growth patterns of those cities. This means that a through street isn't continuously commercial but has blocks of housing and commercial interspersed. It is still very walkable, and might even encourage cars to slow down a little bit on through streets.
Yes, I believe Chicago's commercial zoning mode is obsolete and dependent upon much greater population density resulting from the higher average household sizes of old. Note that the only lower-unit-density areas with notably successful continuous commercial streets are the neighborhoods like Little Village, Humboldt Park, Albany Park with major immigrant (high household size) populations. Were zoning in this city about creating the best urban environment and not just a political tool, I would quickly rewrite the code to focus on retail nodes as you say, with more flexibility in commercially-zoned stretches to allow first floor residential that could be converted to commercial if the market ever demands it. Planners in the city zoning department have long desired this (personal anecdotes), but to no avail obviously.

Quote:
Do off-street parking requirements really do any good? I suppose there is some externality element when developments cause more people to park on the street, but since people shouldn't be able to consider themselves "endowed" with abundant free street parking anyway, I don't understand why the market shouldn't determine whether new developments provide parking spaces, and if so how many.
Generally agreed; the market should be able to work this out in terms of quantity. There is some value in actually planning for off-street parking, though, depending on the land use and street geometry, for safety and aesthetic concerns. Distracted drivers circling for street parking can cause major congestion and safety hazards, and the haphazard surface parking by the entrepeneur capitalizing on unavailable off-street parking in a high-demand district really breaks up the urban form and can be a relative property tax drain compared to the potential for his property. I'm not sure exactly where I stand on off-street parking, other than 1) the current rules can surely be improved and 2) there probably should be some guidelines/requirements for off-street parking for certain developments, but I'm not sure precisely what. I mean, I'd prefer a planned environment with off-street parking provided in the rear part of a lot away from the street, then a haphazard mishmash of surface lots breaking up the pedestrian continuity.

Another curveball complicating the parking issue is that on-street parking is underpriced: not only the annual city sticker fee for parking on residential streets, but also most meter rates are too low compared to the cost of sweeping, maintenance, security, and the opportunity cost of the wasted space not being on the tax rolls. If a private land owner wants to provide free parking for his customers, that's his perogative, but there's no reason the city taxpayers should collectively subsidize car storage (nor should we collectively subsidize parking for people going to church/synagogue once a week by letting their prime-location parking fields which are also used as valet lots for weekend clubbers be tax-exempt, but that's a whole separate rant). I'm curious to see what comes of Chicago's planned privatization of its meters (there is an RFQ out for this on the city website), and if meter prices will go up commensurately.
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  #3053  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 6:34 PM
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http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.a...416&TM=52462.2

Burnett brokers deal for West Loop mid-rise
Condo complex to help build Rosa Parks Apts.

By TIMOTHY INKLEBARGER
Contributing writer

Excerpt:
Quote:
A compromise plan for a proposed 9-story, mixed-use condo building in the West Loop could help finance a 94-unit affordable housing complex in West Humboldt Park.

Neighbors have negotiated for a year and a half over the condo development at 1260 W. Madison by Pickus Cos., arguing that the structure was too tall and dense for area. The original plan would have built two 13-story buildings, each standing 155 feet tall.

The compromise plan released last week would construct a 90-foot-tall modern glass building with 318-units, 343 parking spots and 16,000 square feet of retail space. Developer Joel Pickus said the planned development also includes a smaller 32-unit condo building with 8,500 square feet of retail space at 1300 W. Madison.

Alderman Walter Burnett, 27th, said he requires that all such developments in his ward contribute 15 percent affordable units, 5 percent above what the city requires. The project will include 5 percent affordable units-nine in each building-and Pickus will pay the remaining 10 percent to Bickerdike Redevelopment Corp. to help finance its Rosa Parks affordable housing complex at the corner of Homan and Ohio. The contribution is expected to include a donation of about $1.2 million plus $400,000 in tax credits.
Emphasis mine.

Say hello to some more vacant West Loop retail space and more overpriced West Loop residential. Though I suppose it's better than the lot sitting vacant for the next 30 years.
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  #3054  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 6:44 PM
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http://chicagojournal.com/main.asp?S...22&TM=52250.86

Dressing up the Three Arts Club
Heart of the ‘hood

FELICIA DECHTER


...M Development, owners of Dearborn Goethe LLC, which holds the deed to the property, has proposed a Soho House, an international, private club with lodging.
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  #3055  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 6:45 PM
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http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.co...ws.pl?id=28733

Veteran developer stays on the march
By Andrew Schroedter


About a mile north of his father's old store, Mr. Taxman is planning one of his largest projects ever, a $65-million mixed-use development at Halsted and Madison streets. Construction is scheduled to begin next year on the 120,000-square-foot retail portion, which would include a 63,000-square-foot grocery store run by Milwaukee-based Roundy's Supermarkets Inc.

...Given the weak downtown condominium market, he's scrapped a plan to build a 230-unit condo tower in favor of offices or a boutique hotel. Mr. Taxman doesn’t anticipate a problem securing a loan for the project, despite the credit crunch.
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  #3056  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 7:10 PM
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http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.co...ws.pl?id=28733

Veteran developer stays on the march
By Andrew Schroedter


About a mile north of his father's old store, Mr. Taxman is planning one of his largest projects ever, a $65-million mixed-use development at Halsted and Madison streets. Construction is scheduled to begin next year on the 120,000-square-foot retail portion, which would include a 63,000-square-foot grocery store run by Milwaukee-based Roundy's Supermarkets Inc.

...Given the weak downtown condominium market, he's scrapped a plan to build a 230-unit condo tower in favor of offices or a boutique hotel. Mr. Taxman doesn’t anticipate a problem securing a loan for the project, despite the credit crunch.
There is already a grocery store there???
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  #3057  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 9:47 PM
emathias emathias is offline
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http://chicagojournal.com/main.asp?S...22&TM=52250.86

Dressing up the Three Arts Club
Heart of the ‘hood

FELICIA DECHTER


...M Development, owners of Dearborn Goethe LLC, which holds the deed to the property, has proposed a Soho House, an international, private club with lodging.
I used to live across the street from the Three Arts Club and have been quite dismayed over what's become of it.

There was a nice letter in this week's Reader by a former resident there, also bemoaning the loss of a cultural treasure.
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  #3058  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 9:49 PM
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There is already a grocery store there???
It certainly wouldn't be the first place with grocery stores within sight of each other. I agree in principle it's more than a little silly, though. A grocery store near Ogden and Randolph or VanBuren would seem to make more sense.
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  #3059  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2008, 10:40 PM
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It certainly wouldn't be the first place with grocery stores within sight of each other. I agree in principle it's more than a little silly, though. A grocery store near Ogden and Randolph or VanBuren would seem to make more sense.
This is much closer that within sight, its directly across the street! Make it a few screen movie theater or something. Just seems like a waste of space to me.
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  #3060  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2008, 1:44 AM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
Say hello to some more vacant West Loop retail space and more overpriced West Loop residential. Though I suppose it's better than the lot sitting vacant for the next 30 years.
^ Seems like the project will have a decent amount of density. Not sure what there is to criticize (other than, of course, the fact that it could even be denser, but whatever..)
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