The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Unfortunately, the other OEMs aren't much better on EV quality. See VW software issues and Rivians getting bricked. But you don't get basic build issues as much with other OEMs. Personally, the combination of reliability issues and lack of a large support network has me very hesitant to consider a Tesla.

I guess it's the tradeoff between Tesla's ground-up focus on EV technology - which helps them innovate where others have to retool and change processes - versus their lack of experience in traditional manufacturing and support which the older companies have had decades to refine.

[SpongeG]

Vinfast has a display at the mall in surrey, was quite a crowd looking at it. Nothing special but not bad.

2023-03-20_04-14-05 by snub_you, on Flickr

2023-03-20_04-14-13 by snub_you, on Flickr

[homebucket]

Looks aite.

[Nouvellecosse]

Gives me Alfa Romeo vibes. Not my personal taste but also not offense or anything. Well, except that I'm tired of SUVs.

[WarrenC12]

Any problems a Tesla experiences get magnified 1000x on social media. Real studies would be required for me to take any of this sensationalism seriously.

Yes, they have well known build quality issues (panel gaps). But in terms of overall reliability? I haven't seen good data.

Any time there's an open flame anywhere near one, people freak out. But only Ford and GM have had massive recalls because of battery fire issues.

[homebucket]

Pretty cool car. Too bad we won't ever get it here in NA.

The rotating screen and karaoke mode are nice touches.

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[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Any problems a Tesla experiences get magnified 1000x on social media. Real studies would be required for me to take any of this sensationalism seriously.

Yes, they have well known build quality issues (panel gaps). But in terms of overall reliability? I haven't seen good data.

Any time there's an open flame anywhere near one, people freak out. But only Ford and GM have had massive recalls because of battery fire issues.

Owners of BEVs and PHEVs cite more problems with their vehicles than do owners of vehicles with internal combustion engines (ICE). ICE vehicles average 175 PP100, PHEVs average 239 PP100 and BEVs—excluding Tesla models—average 240 PP100. (Tesla models average 226 PP100 and are shown separate from the BEV average because the predominance of Tesla vehicles could obscure the performance of the legacy automakers that have recently introduced BEVs.)

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...lity-study-iqs

[WarrenC12]

With all due respect, JD power is garbage.

[Hot Karl]

I was considering getting an EV but then I heard that one electric battery is comprised of 25lbs of lithium which is refined from 500 tonnes of ore using sulfuric acid in a process that requires around 1,000 gal of fuel. I also heard that each battery contains 60lbs of nickel, 44lbs of manganese, 30lbs of cobalt, 200lbs of copper, 400lbs of aluminum/steel/plastic. Apparently these materials are often produced using child labour in African countries.

Is that right? I want to make the best decision possible considering all the environmental, social and human factors. Thanks in advance for any insight/clarification.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by Hot Karl

I was considering getting an EV but then I heard that one electric battery is comprised of 25lbs of lithium which is refined from 500 tonnes of ore using sulfuric acid in a process that requires around 1,000 gal of fuel. I also heard that each battery contains 60lbs of nickel, 44lbs of manganese, 30lbs of cobalt, 200lbs of copper, 400lbs of aluminum/steel/plastic. Apparently these materials are often produced using child labour in African countries.

Is that right? I want to make the best decision possible considering all the environmental, social and human factors. Thanks in advance for any insight/clarification.

Hey, a debunked Facebook posting reappears. "I've heard.." yeah, right.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nt/3671468001/

[Hot Karl]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Hey, a debunked Facebook posting reappears. "I've heard.." yeah, right.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nt/3671468001/

The first sentence of the 3rd paragraph literally says "it's true". Thanks for confirming.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Hot Karl

The first sentence of the 3rd paragraph literally says "it's true". Thanks for confirming.

It also says, "the batteries' impact on the environment is more complex than the Facebook post suggests" which makes it clear that the FB post is quoting stats in a misleading or incomplete way. A particular stat being true doesn't mean the conclusions that people want you to draw from it are true. Often there are other stats that they haven't mentioned which are equally or more important. For instance, the sheer volume of materials that need to be drawn from the earth and transported huge distances in order to power fossil fuel vehicles. And all the water that's been contaminated and air that's been polluted in the process.

Overall, the conclusion that electric cars won't "save the environment" is true. But the fact that their overall harm to the environment is much lower than fossil fuel vehicles is also true.

[Hot Karl]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

It also says, "the batteries' impact on the environment is more complex than the Facebook post suggests" which makes it clear that the FB post is quoting stats in a misleading or incomplete way. A particular stat being true doesn't mean the conclusions that people want you to draw from it are true. Often there are other stats that they haven't mentioned which are equally or more important. For instance, the sheer volume of materials that need to be drawn from the earth and transported huge distances in order to power fossil fuel vehicles. And all the water that's been contaminated and air that's been polluted in the process.

Overall, the conclusion that electric cars won't "save the environment" is true. But the fact that their overall harm to the environment is much lower than fossil fuel vehicles is also true.

If fossil fuel vehicles didn't exist do you think everyone would be fine with the EV industry and all it's mining, processes & related environmental impacts? Of course not. Once fossil fuel vehicles are phased out EVs will be next in cross hairs of the anti-human environmental radicals.

[Truenorth00]

Hey Migs. You can buy whatever kinda car you want. But if you're going to start worrying about the supply chains involved in making an EV, I suggest you look at everything else around you, from your cellphone to your lawnmower to your current car.

At this point, very few people are buying BEVs for environmental concerns. They are buying them because they want the experience and stable ownership cost. No worrying about some Saudi goatherder tripping on a pipeline and doubling the price of their commute.

Western governments are pushing EVs because they don't want to cede the entire future auto market to China.

It really is that simple.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Hot Karl

If fossil fuel vehicles didn't exist do you think everyone would be fine with the EV industry and all it's mining, processes & related environmental impacts? Of course not. Once fossil fuel vehicles are phased out EVs will be next in cross hairs of the anti-human environmental radicals.

Wanting to improve the environment isn't anti-human, it's pro-human. Because humans (both current and future) need clear air, water and soil as much as any other species. But it's true that sustainability is not instant and will take decades if not centuries just like building our current unsustainable society did.

So yes, we worry about the current improvements we can make now, and we'll consider future improvements that we can make in the future. Not really that complicated and not terrible scary when you don't say it with a foreboding, conspiratorial tone.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Hot Karl

If fossil fuel vehicles didn't exist do you think everyone would be fine with the EV industry and all it's mining, processes & related environmental impacts? Of course not. Once fossil fuel vehicles are phased out EVs will be next in cross hairs of the anti-human environmental radicals.

Judging by this comment, I think your mind was made up before you entered this thread. I think you tried to come across as open minded in your first comment, but from this comment it sounds like you're pretty deep in the dogma here.

The fact of the matter is that global supply chains are tricky; If you're buying clothing you're supporting child labour in South/Southeast Asia, if you're buying jewelry you're supporting child labour in Africa, if you're buying chocolate you're supporting child labour in Africa, if you're buying coffee you're supporting child labour in Africa, if you're buying any battery powered device you're supporting child labour in Africa - come to think of it, there's a lot of child labour in Africa.

As the anti-capitalists say, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. However, we can do our best to mitigate the damage. As they say, the greenest car to buy is a used car which a decade ago meant it was greener to buy a used ICE vehicle over a new EV, but the used EV market is picking up rapidly which should be the best option for you (if you're genuine). EV battery recycling should start to take off soon and recycling those batteries will easily be the greenest way to build a new car.

[Truenorth00]

Ford is splitting its ICEV and BEV business. It's lost billions on EVs and is hoping to basically be half as profitable as Tesla is today...in 2026. And that's the second highest selling EV maker in the US. This is why I'm worried that legacy automakers are doing to struggle to survive. What happens when the ICEV business that they are relying on, to pay their debts and their transition costs, start seeing rapid revenue decline after 2025?

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[theman23]

Saw my first Ioniq 6 parked today. Its quite ugly. Reminded me of the Model 3 but with a whale fluke attached to the back. Interior seemed nice though from what I could see.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by theman23

Saw my first Ioniq 6 parked today. Its quite ugly. Reminded me of the Model 3 but with a whale fluke attached to the back. Interior seemed nice though from what I could see.

Yes it's not the most attractive thing, especially compared to the 5 which I think looks great. But the aero shape apparently helps reduce energy use and increase range. So... a worthy trade off perhaps?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Subjective. I like the 6 better than the 5. To me, the 5 looks like a boxy 1980s hatchback crossed with a CUV, and the 6 is much more sleek and aerodynamic, so...