Everything Bicycles | Winnipeg

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

1) People do winter cycling despite our poor infrastructure and clearing to do so. If there was more connectivity and better snow clearing you would see more winter-cyclist.

2) Even if you don’t want to cycle in the extreme temps there are still 8-9 months in the year where the weather is warm enough to cycle comfortably with a jacket. I’ve already cycled numerous times since March when the weather got warmer and it was a very pleasurable experience.

3) EVERY single public engagement meeting that I’ve attended and survey results for road rehabilitation/renewals the majority of participants usually want protected bike lanes because it’s safer for all modes of transportation, takes cars off the road reducing traffic, and is much more sustainable then taking your automobile everywhere. Not to mention it’s much cheaper to build then renewing/rehabbing existing car infrastructure. Curb protected bike lanes cost a measly $100k/km. Please explain to me why investing in car-centric design is better?

4) Driving is not horrible, but we don’t have to be completely at the mercy of our cars because of poor planning decisions like not riding a bike. Walking and cycling is also physical activity which is important when about 50% of this city is overweight and needs more exercise. Why not just do your physical activity when running errands or commuting?

5) Do you know what induced demand is? If you don’t I’ll gladly explain. Essentially the more infrastructure you have for a certain type of transportation, the more people will use it out of pure convenience. That’s why when you see freeways constructed or a road widened it always worsens traffic about a year after being built. Simply because there is more of that infrastructure more people will use it. That also applies to other forms of transportation such as cycling and bussing. If you build more bike lanes to places people want to go more people will use that bike lane accordingly.

Sorry you’re thinly-veiled attempt to discredit cycling progress in the city proves a detachment of reality from public perception and what the city is actually doing. Our infrastructure is crumbling because we can’t pay for our existing car-centric design, and 50% of our emissions comes from transportation (32% comes from residential automobiles). There’s no justification to be against bike lanes from a economical, climate change, and physical health perspective.

Nice try, to bad those who care/cycle amount to roughly .001% of Winnipegs population.

Let’s build bike lanes so the select few can feel good about pretending to save the planet!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Nice try, to bad those who care/cycle amount to roughly .001% of Winnipegs population.

Let’s build bike lanes so the select few can feel good about pretending to save the planet!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of spending that goes into AT/bike lanes has to be a tiny fraction of the overall roads budget.

So is the issue here that we are spending a tiny amount of money instead of AT per year instead of dedicating all of it to roads instead?

If so, tell me what kinds of amazing projects we are going to realize by redirecting the AT budget to roads? Will we get one more block a year resurfaced? Or maybe one more cul de sac will get built each year in Bridgwater?

C'mon, man

[trueviking]

I think people who want protected bike lanes want to save themselves more than the planet.

I would be quite happy if AT spending was proportionate with those who bike and walk, but I'd go even further and say that this spending should be proportionate to the participation rates in each neighbourhood.

Here's some numbers for commuting only. Of course many more people bike and walk for things other than going to work, and most kids ride a bike.

Wolseley
14% walk
13% bike

Earl Grey/Corydon
12% walk
5% bike

Osborne
15% walk
6% bike

Broadway - Assiniboine
35% walk
6% bike

Riverview/Lord Roberts
5% walk
6% bike

River Heights
5% walk
5% bike

of course in most distant suburbs the ratio is more like 1% walk, 0.5% bike.

In the city overall
5% walk
2% bike.

So I would be quite happy if 6-13% of the roads budget in the mature neighbourhoods went to bike infrastructure and 17-40% went to AT. I'd also be happy if 7% of the city-wide roads budget went to AT.

of course the annoying thing is that the vast majority of AT spending happens in the neighbourhoods with the 1% and 0.5% participation rates. This is probably what rrskylar sees, and what formulates his feelings about it. (north kildonan 3% walk, 0.8% bike to work) If you live in one of the central areas you see a different reality.

Participation rates are from the 2016 census. They would be higher today for sure. There has been a visible increase in cycling in mature neighbourhoods in the last five years.

[DancingDuck]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Nice try, to bad those who care/cycle amount to roughly .001% of Winnipegs population.

Let’s build bike lanes so the select few can feel good about pretending to save the planet!

Man if you're going to make up statistics at least make them plausible...0.001% works out to 8 people . I'm pretty sure I saw more than that many people biking when I went to work on Monday

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the amount of spending that goes into AT/bike lanes has to be a tiny fraction of the overall roads budget.

So is the issue here that we are spending a tiny amount of money instead of AT per year instead of dedicating all of it to roads instead?

If so, tell me what kinds of amazing projects we are going to realize by redirecting the AT budget to roads? Will we get one more block a year resurfaced? Or maybe one more cul de sac will get built each year in Bridgwater?

C'mon, man

At no point have I ever said I'm against AT which works, the problem I have is with dedicated bike lanes that serve a very small few!

[GreyGarden]

Just basic walking infrastructure needs a proportionate boost in terms of maintenance. In my neighbourhood, West Broadway, where walking, transit and biking rates are high, the sidewalks were barely plowed all winter. Since November we've been walking on icy-snowy foot paths a foot above the sidewalk.

Its so irritating to see people who actually live in the area walking single file along some terrible foot path while cars just cut through the neighbourhood no problem on plowed streets.

The urban experience in Winnipeg would be greatly enhanced if in the winter you could walk from your apartment to the closest high street in the winter on an actual sidewalk.

[GreyGarden]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

At no point have I ever said I'm against AT which works, the problem I have is with dedicated bike lanes that serve a very small few!

But someone just pointed out to you that in the inner city where bike lanes and AT infrastructure should be focused on, biking rates are 6%-13%... Obviously its a minority but the amount of funding that mode receives is still not proportionate.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

At no point have I ever said I'm against AT which works, the problem I have is with dedicated bike lanes that serve a very small few!

Bike lanes are a form of AT infrastructure, though. There are different types of AT infrastructure.

[trueviking]

.....and of course all that cycling in the mature neighbourhoods happens with very few protected bike lanes. We all know that if you improve the infrastructure, you also improve participation rates. Its a proven rule everywhere in the world.

[zalf]

Originally Posted by esquire

Bike lanes are a form of AT infrastructure, though. There are different types of AT infrastructure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy

The motte-and-bailey fallacy (named after the motte-and-bailey castle) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where an arguer conflates two positions that share similarities, one modest and easy to defend (the "motte") and one much more controversial (the "bailey"). The arguer advances the controversial position, but when challenged, they insist that they are only advancing the more modest position.

[esquire]

I suppose it is possible to overspend on AT infrastructure relative to roads, but we are nowhere near that point IMO.

Even if we completely diverted the AT budget to roads I doubt the impact would even be discernible.

If we are underspending on roads I don't think you can point at AT budgets as the culprit.

[trueviking]

I've changed my post to only reflect cycling.

I think people who want protected bike lanes want to save themselves more than the planet.

I would be quite happy if bike lane spending was proportionate with those who bike, but I'd go even further and say that this spending should be proportionate to the participation rates in each neighbourhood.

Here's some numbers for commuting only. Of course many more people bike for things other than going to work, and most kids ride a bike.

Wolseley
13% bike

Earl Grey/Corydon
5% bike

Osborne
6% bike

Broadway - Assiniboine
6% bike

Riverview/Lord Roberts
6% bike

River Heights
5% bike

of course in most distant suburbs the ratio is more like 0.5% bike.

In the city overall
2% bike.

So I would be quite happy if 5-13% of the roads budget in the mature neighbourhoods went to bike infrastructure. I'd also be happy if 2% of the city-wide roads budget went to protected bike lanes. That would be transformational for the city.

of course the annoying thing is that the vast majority of cycling infrastructure spending happens in the neighbourhoods with the 0.5% participation rates. This is probably what rrskylar sees, and what formulates his feelings about it. (north kildonan 0.8% bike to work) If you live in one of the central areas you see a different reality.

Participation rates are from the 2016 census. They would be higher today for sure. There has been a visible increase in cycling in mature neighbourhoods in the last five years.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

At no point have I ever said I'm against AT which works, the problem I have is with dedicated bike lanes that serve a very small few!

got to start somewhere.

same arguments were used for paved highways back in the day

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

Just basic walking infrastructure needs a proportionate boost in terms of maintenance. In my neighbourhood, West Broadway, where walking, transit and biking rates are high, the sidewalks were barely plowed all winter. Since November we've been walking on icy-snowy foot paths a foot above the sidewalk.

Its so irritating to see people who actually live in the area walking single file along some terrible foot path while cars just cut through the neighbourhood no problem on plowed streets.

The urban experience in Winnipeg would be greatly enhanced if in the winter you could walk from your apartment to the closest high street in the winter on an actual sidewalk.

Throughout the last winter and in past winters the stand alone bike paths were cleared before sidewalks and in a lot of cases some sidewalks were never cleared properly if at all!

You can’t keep clearing the downtown bike lanes for 20 people to use and leave sidewalks on bus routes untouched for days and weeks!

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

got to start somewhere.

same arguments were used for paved highways back in the day

AT pathways are well used by everyone, walkers, joggers, cyclists, physically challenged with defvices, rollerbladers, scooters…..dedicated bike lanes serve very few aside from 20-40 mostly white entitled males!

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Throughout the last winter and in past winters the stand alone bike paths were cleared before sidewalks and in a lot of cases some sidewalks were never cleared properly if at all!

You can’t keep clearing the downtown bike lanes for 20 people to use and leave sidewalks on bus routes untouched for days and weeks!

you make it sound like there's bike lanes all over downtown. There's basically two....and they were not cleared before sidewalks this winter. they were maybe cleared twice.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

AT pathways are well used by everyone, walkers, joggers, cyclists, physically challenged with defvices, rollerbladers, scooters…..dedicated bike lanes serve very few aside from 20-40 mostly white entitled males!

hello.....clear data given above.....twice.....please stop with the hyperbole until you respond to it.

15,000 people use a bike to get to work every day from spring to fall....that's just to get to work.

The great thing about bike lanes is they have been proven everywhere in the world to increase cycling participation with women.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by trueviking

you make it sound like there's bike lanes all over downtown. There's basically two....and they were not cleared before sidewalks this winter. they were maybe cleared twice.

Come on Vike, you know my hyperbole, it's the Sip in me that comes out sometimes!

[trueviking]

ha ha...true....i miss that guy.

[esquire]

If I honestly thought the City was going nuts with bike lane overspending or adding them to the point where car traffic was being needlessly choked, I'd say something. But it does not look like it has come even remotely close to reaching that point. If anything, Winnipeg is taking an extremely minimalistic approach. Only a militant who thinks there should be zero bike lanes (an unreasonable position IMO) would argue that Winnipeg is overdoing it in that area.