SAN FRANCISCO | 200 Mission Campus (incl 50 Main and 77 Beale) | 992 FT | 89 FL

[NYguy]

I don't like the idea of the heights of the two tallest being so similar. It has a deadening effect on the skyline.

[SFView]

Would that be a good enough excuse to make this a little taller, and hopefully not shorter?

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I don't like the idea of the heights of the two tallest being so similar. It has a deadening effect on the skyline.

No more deadening than the skyline was for 45 years being stuck in the same state.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I don't like the idea of the heights of the two tallest being so similar. It has a deadening effect on the skyline.

That's because the rendering doesn't show Oceanwide Center and TransBay Parcel F which are only slightly shorter but would fill in the gaps and make for a cluster of taller buildings, not just a "pair".

Note: Since we suddenly have several "out of towners" visiting the thread, it should be pointed out that One Rincon Hill, which is the farthest tower to the right side of the above skyline photos, was the tallest all-residential tower west of Chicago when it opened and still is I believe. As you can see, 50 Main would be substantially taller than that not just setting a new record by a bit but by a lot.

[myBrain]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Note: Since we suddenly have several "out of towners" visiting the thread, it should be pointed out that One Rincon Hill, which is the farthest tower to the right side of the above skyline photos, was the tallest all-residential tower west of Chicago when it opened and still is I believe.

Since surpassed by the Independent and Austonian in Austin. But this proposal will retake the crown by a long shot.

I quite like this project, and disagree with most of the criticisms above. Conservative at first glance but I don't think it's boring. I'm really interested in seeing the timber facade and I think the contrast with the blue glass is what will make this one stand out. It's certainly better than another mirrored curtain wall with steel pinstripes or cheap look-at-me architecture that will mar a classic skyline. And I actually like its relation to the SF tower, which has always been in need of company.

[homebucket]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how the floor plates of 50 Main compare to those of the skinny supertalls in NYC?

Looks like this one will be 100' x 127' up until floor 46, and then from floors 47-71 it'll be 100' x 100'. Not sure about floors 72-85.

[SFView]

I am actually intrigued by the thought of using mass timber in the building facades. Perhaps 50 Main Street will look more interesting and better than we expect. It's still early enough in the design process that we could see design refinements in the future.

[pseudolus]

delete

[Zapatan]

Someone should make a rendering including the new 800' Salesforce Tower at Parcel F.

This building is okay, I dig the height (although it's too similar to Salesforce Tower as others have mentioned) but I guess that's a good problem to have. The occupied space / garden 1k feet above SF would be pretty crazy.

If Hines is behind this, it seems pretty likely it could be built.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Someone should make a rendering including the new 800' Salesforce Tower at Parcel F.

This building is okay, I dig the height (although it's too similar to Salesforce Tower as others have mentioned) but I guess that's a good problem to have. The occupied space / garden 1k feet above SF would be pretty crazy.

If Hines is behind this, it seems pretty likely it could be built.

Parcel F is not a "Salesforce" tower. Saleforce leased the entire existing supertall at 1st & Mission (the building just a bit taller than 50 Main) and slapped its name on both it and the Transit Center, but Parcel F will be named something else unless Salesforce pays to have its name on that too. They do not need more office space, however, with a large part of their workforce now working at least part time at home, and gave up the idea of leasing at the stalled Oceanwide Center.

There will likely eventually be 6 very tall or supertall buildings within blocks of each other in the Transbay Transit District: Salesforce Tower (1070 ft--built), 181 Fremont (803 ft--built), Oceanwide Center (2 towers, 910 ft and 605 ft--mostly built to street level and suspended), Parcel F (806 ft--approved), and 50 Main.

[MyCitySFO]

I am sure the planning commission will have a lot to say about the design. Unfortunately i dont think they will have a problem with the overall look of the proposal. I think their problem will be the height. Salesforce and 181 Fremont were supposed to be taller and got shortened. Hines should have proposed a 1,266 foot tower that way when the planning commision says take 200 feet off the top it would have ended up at 1066. Gut feeling is that it will end up under 900 feet tall. I really hope i am wrong on this one. If it ends up being 1066....at least i hope the final design will look more 2027 than 1997

[JMKeynes]

The design is pretty lame. SF deserves better. It's arguably the second best city in America and warrants a far more striking design for its second tallest tower.

[UpwithOlives]

Originally Posted by obemearg

Hmm, great to see some ambitious development though i'm not sure I'm sold on the looks yet. I have a feeling this will face a lot of similar criticism to 423 Park Ave in NY.

432 Park Ave.

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by UpwithOlives

432 Park Ave.

The difference is that 432 is one among many supertalls. Hopefully, many more 1,000’ towers will rise in SF, and this won’t stand out.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

The difference is that 432 is one among many supertalls. Hopefully, many more 1,000’ towers will rise in SF, and this won’t stand out.

Not with current zoning and there are no zoning changes planned. Even one more office building this tall probably couldn't be built. 50 Main needs state "density bonuses" only available to housing to reach the height it has. A careful perusal of the height/bulk limits and a thorough knowledge of the density bonus laws might identify another site or several where 1000 ft housing could be built but I'm not sure.

[SFView]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Not with current zoning and there are no zoning changes planned. Even one more office building this tall probably couldn't be built. 50 Main needs state "density bonuses" only available to housing to reach the height it has. A careful perusal of the height/bulk limits and a thorough knowledge of the density bonus laws might identify another site or several where 1000 ft housing could be built but I'm not sure.

Yes, that's right, at least for the foreseeable future. BTW, can anyone tell us how long, from what year to what year, San Francisco's maximum height limit was 550 feet? The point is things can and do change over time. We just don't know when.

I'm as most of you, that the height proposed doesn't get reduced. At least someone is making a serious attempt with potential plausible backup support. Perhaps if enough of us support it, and the pros outweigh the cons, it may succeed. May those of us who like having another one or more supertalls in San Francisco soon have the best of luck!

[JMKeynes]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Not with current zoning and there are no zoning changes planned. Even one more office building this tall probably couldn't be built. 50 Main needs state "density bonuses" only available to housing to reach the height it has. A careful perusal of the height/bulk limits and a thorough knowledge of the density bonus laws might identify another site or several where 1000 ft housing could be built but I'm not sure.

Thanks. While I don’t like the design, it’s a good sign that SF is still doing really well. Many morons think that it’s falling apart and that everyone will abandon it for the likes of Dallas, Raleigh, Charlotte, etc. Obviously, that’s not going to happen.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Toasty Joe

couldn't agree more. SF's skyline has always punched above its weight due to the hills and (imo) tasteful variation in building height, with Salesforce more recently contributing a nice bulky centerpiece. This kinda ruins that. I'll wait to see renderings with Oceanside and Parcel F, but I almost hope this gets a height chop.

Call me crazy but I appreciate when a city's tallest is a marquee design with a strong presence. Feels similar to Central Park Tower essentially overtaking 1WTC, but way closer together.

Once again, there is going to be a group of buildings within 2 blocks of each other surrounding the Salesforce Tower and from Dolores Park, which that image is, it will form almost a single mass. Besides Salesforce and 50 Main, TransBay Parcel F is very likely to move forward even before 50 Main. Quite possibly by the time 50 Main gets approved (assuming it does), what is currently known as Oceanwide Center could well have a new owner and when it does it will quickly begin to rise because the underground work, which in SF takes about half the construction time, is just about done.

So eventually there will be Salesforce, "Oceanwide" with 2 towers (one nearly 1000 ft), Parcel F, 50 Main and 181 Fremont in one pretty tight grouping. I do wish someone had produced a rendering showing all of them so the real situation would be apparent.

[SFView]

Here is a composite I created using images borrowed from Steelblue and Foster and Partners. Since I am not affiliated with either entity, and images I've posted previously on Skyscraperpage have been used by others for various purposes at various websites; out of respect for Steelblue, and Foster and Partners, I have watermarked the image. I am posting this for discussion purposes only.

The height of this version of 50 Main at 1066 feet is correct for this perspective view, so it appears slightly taller. Even in elevation view, Salesforce Tower and 50 Main would appear almost identical. Please note again that design of 50 Main could very well change from what is portrayed here. I also didn't update 77 Beale/200 Mission - the shorter tower just next door to the left.

[Pedestrian]

^^Very nice. Thanks.