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  #81  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Retirees don't need no stinking education.

oh yes they do!

but not in the way you think.

its all about college towns for retiring, but particularly college towns with schools that have medical programs.

nothing like having 15 doctors and wanna be's looking you over every time you need a doc.
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  #82  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2022, 12:15 AM
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Again, California's outstanding public higher education system is not due primarily to its current (or past) population. Rather, it is primarily because of the state's priorities, policies, and planning. In 1960, when California's population was smaller than Florida's in the year 2000 or Texas' in the mid-1980s, the state adopted its forward-looking Master Plan for Higher Education to ensure the state's enduring prosperity by educating as many eligible college students as possible, at as low a cost as possible. And while costs have increased and state subsidies decreased in the subsequent decades, the structural plan was largely followed as intended, and the result is the best public college/university system in the nation, perhaps the world. It turns out that sometimes government can actually do something and do it well--and this is an example of that.
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  #83  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2022, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
40 million people
California was much smaller when the UC/ Cal State Systems were established. As far as I can remember, CA always had an excellent public university system. Even by New York standards where the SUNY system was always held in high regard...not as prestigious as some of the schools in UC System though.
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  #84  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2022, 10:23 PM
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California's in state tuiton was free I think until the late 80s or early 90s.

It was still very very cheap when I graduated from high school in the mid 90s.
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  #85  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2022, 10:33 PM
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California's in state tuiton was free I think until the late 80s or early 90s.

It was still very very cheap when I graduated from high school in the mid 90s.
California community colleges were free until the early 1980s, if I remember reading correctly. I don't know about the UC and CSU systems, though.

Also, Prop 13 is what killed a lot of funding to public higher education in California, as well as revenue for smaller cities/suburbs. That's when smaller cities turned to trying to encourage more commercial developments for sales tax revenue.

I was apathetic towards politics in high school, but when I started college in the late 80s, little by little, that's when I learned to start disliking Republicans. And then when Republican Pete Wilson became governor in 1991, that's when I totally vowed never to vote for a Republican. He kept cutting funding for higher education, which resulted in a lot of classes being cut while I was a college student, which also extended my time as an undergraduate. He was very anti-public education, and when I learned that Pete Wilson never even went to public schools while he was growing up, that's when I really started hating him.
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  #86  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 12:57 AM
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Non-Boston New England seems wildly underrated.

I used to consider moving to California pre-pandemic when I was working there but more and more New England looks like a winner…sans Lyme disease which appears to be rampant there (and northern midwest) compared to the low midwest/south.
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  #87  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 2:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
California's in state tuiton was free I think until the late 80s or early 90s.

It was still very very cheap when I graduated from high school in the mid 90s.
It's complicated because students paid "fees" (as opposed to "tuition") for decades to fund things like athletics, but the big philosophical break from the goal of a free higher education came in 1970, under Governor Ronald Reagan. After that break, the 102-year old tradition of free UC education would give way to ever-increasing student fees and tuition charges.

That said, when you graduated from high school circa 1995, UC was only charging in-state students about $4,350 in annual fees and tuition.
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  #88  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 2:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
Non-Boston New England seems wildly underrated.

I used to consider moving to California pre-pandemic when I was working there but more and more New England looks like a winner…sans Lyme disease which appears to be rampant there (and northern midwest) compared to the low midwest/south.
Numerous family members on both sides have had Lyme disease, from Maine to Rhode Island. One of my cousins is still dealing with the ramifications 10 years down the line. If you have outdoor pets, it's something you have to be aware of. But it's only an issue for about 3-4 months of the year. It's worse in Southeastern Mass, Rhode Island, and coastal Connecticut than it is north of Boston.

And yes, New England outside Boston is underrated. I already mentioned Providence, but you should also check out Portland. As much as Providence punches above its weight, Portland does so even more. Portsmouth feels like a boutique slice of Boston or Portland, but in no-income-tax, no-sales-tax New Hampshire. Seriously, you could do what a third of working New Hampshirites do and make your money in Massachusetts while Living Free and Not Dying in New Hampshire.

Like MA but don't want Boston prices? Worcester is booming. Like the feel of MA but just can't find it in you to like the people? Hurtful, but understandable: you'll love any of the Connecticut River Valley towns in CT. Just like suburban Boston, but with docile and agreeable Connecticuters instead of abrasive Massholes. If this is you though, I suggest avoiding New Hampshire: they're on the whole more Masshole-ish than Bay Staters.

Vermont feels both quintessentially New England while also being somewhat set apart. There's no coastline, there's less Irish/Italian cultural influence and more French for obvious reasons, and the accent is different. And I mean, there's less people in Vermont than in Boston's 48 sq mile city limits. That comes with pluses and minuses. I think one of New England's best selling points is having lots of small but urban cities very close to unspoiled nature, especially coastline. You can enjoy Big City and Big Nature easily. You don't get these options in Vermont. (Big caveat: I'm a rare native New Englander who doesn't ski or board, so take my views of Vermont and NH with a grain of salt).
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  #89  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 2:48 AM
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I went to school at UVM, so I think Vermont is one of the greatest states but Montreal (one of the best cities in North America) is only 1 1/2 hours from Burlington. Additionally, Burlington has better music, restaurants, and craft beers than cities 5 - 10 times its size.
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  #90  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 2:57 AM
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Yeah that's so true, and Montreal is amazing.

It's cheating a bit, but New Englanders do consider Montreal to be "part of the neighborhood." Québécois make up like half the license plates you see in Maine or on Cape Cod every summer.
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  #91  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 2:58 AM
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VT, culturally is more like adjacent Upstate NY, Berkshires (Mass) and Litchfield Hills (CT). Like CT, it's New England, but kind of a cultural hybrid, if that makes sense. At some point, New Yorkers established it as their rural fantasy like San Franciscans do with parts of NorCal. And yeah, there's a Quebec influence. And Burlington is great.

The rural parts are generally pretty pricey for rural U.S. standards. Don't forget to factor in property taxes, which are insane in VT. There are likely some inland parts of Maine with near-free housing, but you're basically in wilderness. Coastal Maine is expensive.
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  #92  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 4:09 AM
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Cities with nice culture/universities etc that also offer cheap housing & living cos

I've been sold on Pittsburgh here
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  #93  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 5:46 AM
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^ yeah, it’s a pretty easy sell if you’re going for all of the parameters in the thread title. As I said pages back, well before people started talking about WAY more expensive places with MUCH less significant university presence and FAR lower cultural attributes, I don’t think you can do better than Pittsburgh anywhere based on the thread title.
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  #94  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Numerous family members on both sides have had Lyme disease, from Maine to Rhode Island. One of my cousins is still dealing with the ramifications 10 years down the line. If you have outdoor pets, it's something you have to be aware of. But it's only an issue for about 3-4 months of the year. It's worse in Southeastern Mass, Rhode Island, and coastal Connecticut than it is north of Boston.
No joke about Lyme disease. My father is battling it now and he had to walk with a cane for a while, bit back in July.


Ditto about New England outside of Boston. Portland is a scaled down Boston, Portsmouth plus Seacoast down into Newbury(port), Brattleboro, Burlington and of course Providence. So many others too.
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  #95  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 2:58 PM
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No joke about Lyme disease. My father is battling it now and he had to walk with a cane for a while, bit back in July.
sorry to hear about your dad's bout with it.

apparently, there are millions of people in the northern tier of the nation who have lyme disease and don't even know it.

the CDC only records 20,000 - 30,000 new confirmed cases of lyme disease each year, but experts believe that the real total of new cases/year is likely around 500,000. so there's A LOT of lyme disease going undetected.

my brother-in-law is one of them. he was getting a brain scan done for some completely unreleated neurological issue, and when the doctors were reviewing the results of the scan with him they were like, "oh, and by the way, you also have lyme disease, so we'll get you a referal to get you on the proper medication to address that". he was totally unaware that he had lyme disease.

hell, i could even have it and not know it. lord knows i've hiked through enough forests in wisconsin and michigan over the years.
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  #96  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 3:18 PM
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Ditto about New England outside of Boston. Portland is a scaled down Boston, Portsmouth plus Seacoast down into Newbury(port), Brattleboro, Burlington and of course Providence. So many others too.
All this being true . . . I'd go with Pittsburgh too. Unless you really love the coast, which I understand well.
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  #97  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 3:36 PM
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Ticks terrify the hell out of me, but despite growing up in Connecticut, I never got bit. I'm pretty damn hairy, so I don't know any realistic way I would even see a tick until I actually got the ring rash or something.

Pittsburgh is actually pretty analogous to Boston in a lot of ways.

1. Both metros developed a sort of polycentric model pretty early on, with lots of poorer mill towns located outside the urban core. The urban core white flight in both cases was not incredibly acute either. Hence the cities are closer to a representative slice of the metro as a whole rather than being somewhere that poverty was deeply concentrated.

2. Both cities have a very high proportion of college/grad students when compared to the total city population, which leads to very student-dominated areas - even outright "student slums." If anything the dynamic is stronger in Pittsburgh proportionately, because there are really no notable universities in the suburbs, and even few notable ones in the exurbs until you get quite far out.

3. Both cities still retain notable vestiges of unique working-class white urban culture, though obviously it's becoming scarcer in Boston due to more gentrification/immigration.

Basically, I'd say you get half of Boston (or more aptly, half of what Boston was like say 25 years ago) at well less than half the price.
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  #98  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 4:42 PM
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Presuming that the states manage the systems rationally, the result should be that the flagship universities get a bit less selective, and take a tranche of students who would have formerly gone to the regional universities go to the flagship instead.
I don't see this happening at the University of Michigan. They prefer to keep the ratio of in-state/out-of-state roughly even. The state has little leverage to force them to take more in-state students since the public funding from the state is such a small part of the university's budget.
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  #99  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
sorry to hear about your dad's bout with it.
Thanks. Knock on wood, he's much better.

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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Ticks terrify the hell out of me, but despite growing up in Connecticut, I never got bit. I'm pretty damn hairy, so I don't know any realistic way I would even see a tick until I actually got the ring rash or something.

Pittsburgh is actually pretty analogous to Boston in a lot of ways.

1. Both metros developed a sort of polycentric model pretty early on, with lots of poorer mill towns located outside the urban core. The urban core white flight in both cases was not incredibly acute either. Hence the cities are closer to a representative slice of the metro as a whole rather than being somewhere that poverty was deeply concentrated.

2. Both cities have a very high proportion of college/grad students when compared to the total city population, which leads to very student-dominated areas - even outright "student slums." If anything the dynamic is stronger in Pittsburgh proportionately, because there are really no notable universities in the suburbs, and even few notable ones in the exurbs until you get quite far out.

3. Both cities still retain notable vestiges of unique working-class white urban culture, though obviously it's becoming scarcer in Boston due to more gentrification/immigration.
4. Both metros have annoying sports fans.

Quote:
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All this being true . . . I'd go with Pittsburgh too. Unless you really love the coast, which I understand well.
Pittsburgh is a great city.
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  #100  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2022, 6:19 PM
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I don't see this happening at the University of Michigan. They prefer to keep the ratio of in-state/out-of-state roughly even. The state has little leverage to force them to take more in-state students since the public funding from the state is such a small part of the university's budget.
Yeah, I said if it were done rationally. But state university systems are semi-independent and typically not run in a coordinated fashion, which means that we don't see rationalization happen that freqently.

In general it does seem over the past 20+ years, as private university tuition has escalated beyond $50,000 a year, that a big tranche of students who used to go to private colleges pick a flagship state university somewhere instead. Of course, out-of-state tuition is getting up there too (some states are in the $30K-$40K range), but it's still a big savings over a private school if you don't get financial aid.

My daughter is 13 - less than five years away from college. We were lucky in that my mom decided to set up 529s for both of my kids, and she socked away much of her 401(k) account balance there (she really didn't need it as she had a defined-benefit pension as well). So both the kids have about $200,000 saved up for college. But this makes them almost certainly totally ineligible for financial aid. I'm just telling her to just plain not apply to private universities at all, since I don't think it will be enough money to cover things, even presuming a bit more interest income. Which is absolutely nuts, because I totally realize having a college fund like that is more than 95% of Americans entering college have.
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