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  #1  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 9:17 PM
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Suburbs in Chicago and elsewhere are aspiring to out-city the city

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Suburbs in Chicago and elsewhere are aspiring to out-city the city
It’s a fascinating moment when suburbs are staking claim to the “new urbanism” in development. But new suburban communities must be intentional about bringing together people of different backgrounds and income levels, a DePaul University sociologist writes.

By John Joe Schlichtman
May 17, 2023, 5:00am CDT


An ad filled with smiling young adults beckons you to live where “the coffee is perfect.” There, you can explore “urban-esque” shops and try on new outfits with your besties. You’ll walk to your workplace, a “caffeine-fueled think tank,” to meet your project’s “impossible due date.” When your work day is done, wine and garlic toast await.

When I read this, I wondered: Who is the you? And where is this work hard, play hard wonderland set?

River North in 2000? The West Loop in 2015? Lincoln Yards in 2030?

Nope. Schaumburg — one of a growing list of suburbs in Chicagoland and around the nation that aspire to out-city the city.
Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/5/...lichtman-op-ed





LOL @ the opening paragraph!

All of the superficial nonsense of "urbanism".

And none of its traditional functionality.

The stroad to hell literally goes right through Schaumburg.

In fact, all 12 of them do!
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 19, 2023 at 9:32 PM.
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  #2  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 9:25 PM
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I've never been to Schaumburg, but some (e.g. Kent, WA) suburban downtowns, imo, can be nice.
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  #3  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 9:31 PM
Chisouthside Chisouthside is offline
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Originally Posted by SFBruin View Post
I've never been to Schaumburg, but some (e.g. Kent, WA) suburban downtowns can be nice, imo.
its not that its not a nice suburb, but its like saying you can make a sunbelt city just as urban as philadelphia.
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  #4  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 9:32 PM
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Schaumburg's downtown is actually kinda nice.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/X3Dd84wStcDPuXsf6



Until you zoom out, that is.

Yikes!

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  #5  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Schaumburg's downtown is actually kinda nice.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/X3Dd84wStcDPuXsf6



Until you zoom out, that is.

Yikes!

Is this what they call "new urbanism"?
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  #6  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 10:16 PM
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I'm not bringing Schaumburg to the "urban or suburban" thread.
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  #7  
Old Posted May 19, 2023, 10:25 PM
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That title is hilarious. I'm all for functional, thoughtful new urbanism as I'm sure we all are, especially relative to the alternative. But even the sleekest, densest, most efficient new urbanist development will never come close to the real thing, particularly if the real thing is found in a city like Chicago. Comparing that clown show that is Schaumburg to actual urban living would be like suggesting that sitting in a desk and staring at a blackboard is the same thing as going to university for four years. If you want to play make believe then that is certainly your prerogative. But you're missing the point entirely!
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  #8  
Old Posted May 20, 2023, 1:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SFBruin View Post
I've never been to Schaumburg, but some (e.g. Kent, WA) suburban downtowns, imo, can be nice.
Of all the places you could mention....
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  #9  
Old Posted May 20, 2023, 6:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Schaumburg's downtown is actually kinda nice.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/X3Dd84wStcDPuXsf6



Until you zoom out, that is.

Yikes!

Reminds me of the District in South Jordan, a suburb in the SW part of the Salt Lake Valley.

It looks pretty cool...until you zoom out lmao

https://goo.gl/maps/vkE3spYWe6mYLS9fA
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  #10  
Old Posted May 20, 2023, 3:40 PM
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Sounds like suburban Detroit in the 1980s.
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  #11  
Old Posted May 20, 2023, 10:33 PM
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Schaumburg easily "out-cities" Paris and Manhattan. The Twin Peaks and Binny's Beverage Depot put it over the top.

Your move, Chicago.
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  #12  
Old Posted May 21, 2023, 1:45 PM
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Suburban Chicagoland does actually contain a *lot* of good-bones urbanism. Walkable street grids extend for miles and miles. Most of it is locked up in single-family zoning, but many of those downtowns around Metra stations are encouraging TOD.

Heck, if you live in one of the towns along the inner UP-NW line, virtually all of them have downtown grocery stores so you can live there and only use your car occasionally. The bigger problem IMO is just affordability - most of those towns levy a lot of costly requirements on any new development, so it's out of reach for the middle class just like the single-family homes are. Des Plaines is slightly better on this count, they have permitted a lot of unsexy condo boxes over the years but they remain a great value.

Towns like Schaumburg have it harder. They don't have any kind of traditional downtown and all their development is based around the tollway system and giant stroads. They can try to go a little denser by building townhouses or apartments, but it's all just window dressing unless they actually offer another way to get around besides cars.
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  #13  
Old Posted May 21, 2023, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Suburban Chicagoland does actually contain a *lot* of good-bones urbanism. Walkable street grids extend for miles and miles. Most of it is locked up in single-family zoning, but many of those downtowns around Metra stations are encouraging TOD.
Yeah, the traditional pre-war railroad burbs centered around the legacy metra lines are WAY better than 99% of post-war American suburbia. I grew up in one of them.

But as you pointed out, Schaumburg is definitely not one of them, and perhaps more than any other major burb in Chicagoland, it epitomizes everything that was stupid and wrong about post-war full-on auto-centric community design. That's why I found this article so amusing.

I mean, the premise becomes very vaguely plausible if you were talking about Evanston or Arlington Heights or Elmhurst or wherever, but freaking Schaumburg out-citying the city?!?!?!?

no.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 21, 2023 at 2:45 PM.
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  #14  
Old Posted May 21, 2023, 6:01 PM
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I mean, it's great for the lulz but I think it's actually a huge thing that Schaumburg *of all places* is realizing the limits of typical suburban development.

They're obviously never gonna make Woodfield into Lincoln Square, but this does seem like an inflection point for the region if the quintessential sprawlburb is finally changing their ways.
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  #15  
Old Posted May 21, 2023, 6:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
Reminds me of the District in South Jordan, a suburb in the SW part of the Salt Lake Valley.

It looks pretty cool...until you zoom out lmao

https://goo.gl/maps/vkE3spYWe6mYLS9fA
a lot of that isn't half bad, you could do so much worse than this https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5530...7i16384!8i8192
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  #16  
Old Posted May 21, 2023, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Is this what they call "new urbanism"?
New mall urbanism
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  #17  
Old Posted May 21, 2023, 11:35 PM
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Cities like Chicago weren't built in a day. For suburbs like Schaumburg, it will be step by step also, so they need to take that first step.

Similar thing is happening to the power centre near my house, the parking lots are empty, the buses serving it are full. Now it is a portion of it is set to be redeveloped into high rise condos with street level retail. 220 acres of big boxes and parking lots set to become a high-rise condo towers, mid-rises, town houses, street-level retail, and greenspace:

Massive 4,000 unit development could be coming to Mississauga
By Steve Pecar
Published May 30, 2022 at 4:47 pm
Quote:
A major building project could turn parts of a large Mississauga shopping centre into a neighbourhood with thousands of residential units.

The plan calls for a major overhaul of Heartland Town Centre that will see 4,000 units added to a large area in the south of the property along Matheson Blvd.. between Mavis Rd. to McLaughlin Rd.
https://www.insauga.com/massive-4000...o-mississauga/

I have photographed this power centre many times before, including the portion set to be redeveloped. It is across the street from Costco.





Difference with this development is it is not based on New Urbanism (faux-historic, centred around the landmark or square, emulate a small town, self-contained) but rather on the other of side of "smart growth", which is transit-oriented development (emphasis on a corridor, serving the wider city, high density).

This power centre is served by 3 major bus routes: 39 Britannia (east/west), 61 Mavis (north/south), and 66 McLaughlin (north/south). Before the pandemic, 39 Britannia started using articulated buses due to the overcrowding, but they went back to regular 40 foot buses during the lockdowns. However, the buses started getting overcrowded again, so last year they increased the service from every 25 minutes to every 20 minutes all day. A couple months ago they increased the service again to 18 minutes all day. No articulated buses to spare due to the overcrowding on other routes, namely 18/42 Derry, 61 Mavis, and 66 McLaughlin.

61 Mavis operates at 12 minute frequency all day on weekdays with articulated buses. Last year, articulated buses started operating on the route on weekends due to overcrowding. Saturday frequency remained at 19 minutes all day and Sunday remained at 22 minutes. 66 McLaughlin also operates with articulated buses with similar frequencies.

These corridors were not designed for transit. They were never designated as major transit corridors by the city's planning department. There is mostly low density zoning along them, only some medium density zoning, but no high density zoning. These neighbourhoods were built recklessly and thoughtlessly but the ridership of these bus corridors still getting out of control. Imagine if these corridors were designed to be urban to begin with.

When suburbs can take the step from cars to buses, then they can take the next step from buses to cycling and walking. Gradually fill in the gaps and gradually reduce the travel distances, to get people onto buses, then bikes, then on the sidewalks. And of course self-driving cars will reduce the demand for parking even more. So don't laugh at suburbs thinking of becoming something more than just suburbs. They will become something more whether they want o it or not.

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  #18  
Old Posted May 22, 2023, 12:05 AM
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Maybe someday it'll actually be worthwhile to extend the CTA blue line to Schaumburg...
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  #19  
Old Posted May 22, 2023, 1:00 AM
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The suburbs in Chicago look so disorganized. Not many corridors through Schaumburg, most are broken or lined with greenspace. The only potential major transit corridor I see is Golf Road to Evanston. It connects with 3 Metra train stations. Right now it is served by Pace bus route 208, every 30 minutes, but only 9am to 10pm at Woodfield Mall. It should be 6am to 12am. Rush hour is the busiest time but they don't have rush hour service?

There is no north-south Pace route in Schaumburg at all. Roselle Road seems the best candidate for a new route.
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  #20  
Old Posted May 22, 2023, 3:01 AM
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Will it have a residential component at least?

I have an odd curiosity about apartments built on malls. How will the mall evolve, if it does at all? Will the mall change to reflect the needs and wants of the residents? Will it create a green space? Will it have corner bars? Will it create a catalyst for future transit and residential development down the road? Depending on how these questions are addressed, I could see the appeal. Like a Chinese subdivision.
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