Diversity in Canadian cities

[Docere]

From the 2021 census:


City of Toronto

Population 2,761,255
Visible minorities 1,537,285 55.7%

South Asian 385,440 14%
Chinese 296,225 10.7%
Black 265,005 9.6%
Filipino 170,355 6.2%
Latin American 92,455 3.3%
West Asian 69,320 2.5%
Southeast Asian 53,905 2%
Korean 42,195 1.5%
Arab 42,040 1.5%
Japanese 13,210 0.5%

Greater Toronto Area

Population 6,647,100
Visible minorities 3,629,635 54.6%

South Asian 1,224,890 18.4%
Chinese 691,635 10.4%
Black 521,610 7.8%
Filipino 291,415 4.4%
West Asian 164,550 2.5%
Latin American 161,460 2.4%
Arab 135,360 2%
Southeast Asian 103,385 1.6%
Korean 76,315 1.1%
Japanese 21,235 0.3%


Greater Toronto-Hamilton Area

Population 7,208,015
Visible minorities 3,770,585 52.3%

South Asian 1,259,680 17.5%
Chinese 702,580 9.7%
Black 550,025 7.6%
Filipino 303,145 4.2%
Latin American 172,605 2.4%
West Asian 171,915 2.4%
Arab 151,120 2.1%
Southeast Asian 111,830 1.6%
Korean 78,680 1.1%
Japanese 22,395 0.3%

[Crawford]

So the South Asian % for the metro is approaching 20%. Given current trends, there will be some big South Asian numbers in major North American metros in upcoming decades.

[Docere]

City of Montreal

Population 1,723,230
Visible minorities 668,975 38.8%

Black 198,610 11.5%
Arab 141,935 8.2%
South Asian 79,670 4.6%
Latin American 78,150 4.5%
Chinese 56,935 3.3%
Southeast Asian 37,905 2.2%
Filipino 27,355 1.6%
West Asian 17,500 1%
Korean 5,245 0.3%
Japanese 2,645 0.1%


Montreal Island

Population 1,959,355
Visible minorities 737,510 37.6%

Black 208,805 10.7%
Arab 151,890 7.8%
South Asian 91,370 4.7%
Latin American 82,550 4.2%
Chinese 69,985 3.6%
Southeast Asian 40,535 2.1%
Filipino 33,365 1.7%
West Asian 22,800 1.2%
Korean 6,755 0.3%
Japanese 3,165 0.2%

Greater Montreal

Population 4,206,450
Visible minorities 1,143,825 27.2%

Black 340,135 8.1%
Arab 246,145 5.9%
Latin American 137,850 3.3%
South Asian 121,260 2.9%
Chinese 103,505 2.5%
Southeast Asian 61,255 1.5%
Filipino 40,315 1%
West Asian 39,470 0.9%
Korean 9,150 0.2%
Japanese 4,170 0.1%

[Docere]

City of Vancouver

Population 650,380
Visible minorities 354,615 54.5%

Chinese 168,385 25.9%
South Asian 44,850 6.9%
Filipino 38,605 5.9%
Southeast Asian 20,585 3.2%
Latin American 18,080 2.8%
West Asian 12,100 1.9%
Japanese 10,990 1.7%
Korean 10,895 1.7%
Black 8,515 1.3%
Arab 3,785 0.6%

Greater Vancouver Regional District

Population 2,607,010
Visible minorities 1,420,270 54.5%

Chinese 512,260 19.6%
South Asian 369,290 14.2%
Filipino 142,125 5.5%
West Asian 64,640 2.5%
Korean 63,465 2.4%
Southeast Asian 56,815 2.2%
Latin American 51,500 2%
Black 41,180 1.6%
Japanese 31,195 1.2%
Arab 22,440 0.9%

Lower Mainland

Population 2,924,680
Visible minorities 1,501,300 51.3%

Chinese 516,825 17.7%
South Asian 422,875 14.5%
Filipino 146,790 5%
Korean 65,690 2.2%
West Asian 65,675 2.2%
Southeast Asian 60,630 2%
Latin American 54,545 1.9%
Black 44,700 1.5%
Japanese 32,345 1.1%
Arab 23,450 0.8%

[memph]

Old Toronto now has fewer visible minorities than quite a good bit of suburban municipalities.

% visible minorities and expected year to reach 50% visible minorities if current trends continue. The 2050+ communities may get there sooner if new development shifts there.

4.6%: Brock [2148]
5.2%: Scugog [2128]
8.1%: Uxbridge [2109]
12.6%: Georgina [2064]
13.5%: Halton Hills [2051]
16.5%: Clarington [2041]
18.4%: King [2050]
20.9%: Burlington [2051]

28.9%: Oshawa [2030]

30.0%: East Gwilimbury [2027]
32.9%: Caledon [2028]
34.9%: Newmarket [2030]
35.4%: Whitby [2029]

38.9%: Aurora [2026]
40.0%: Inner 8 electoral districts (pop 891,320) [2031]
41.3%: Vaughan [2029]
42.5%: Oakville [2025]
43.5%: Central Toronto; Humber River to Victoria Park, Lake Ontario to Hwy 401 (pop 1,317,175) [2028]

46.3%: Whitchurch-Stouffville [2023]

51.9%: Pickering
55.2%: Milton
61.9%: Mississauga
64.6%: Ajax
66.4%: Richmond Hill
80.6%: Brampton
82.1%: Markham

[memph]

Toronto CMA change in visible minority groups from 2016 to 2021

+209,260 South Asian
+50,845 Latin American (this surprised me, that's a 50% increase)
+48,675 Chinese
+46,135 Black
+36,570 West Asian
+34,370 Multiple/mixed race
+26,675 Filipino
+18,790 SE Asian
+17,570 Other
+4,540 Korea
-445 Japanese
-1,685 Indigenous
-3,635 Arab
-207,640 not a visible minority or indigenous (so basically, white)

[Crawford]

It's pretty clear that South Asia is the future for a lot of U.S./Canadian metros. China's inward shift is really making this clear.

My brother's public school system in suburban Detroit is majority Asian, and probably at least plurality Indian. And the local Indian population was minimal until about 15 years ago.

South Asians in the U.S. tend to be affluent and live in McMansion-type sprawl. South Asians in Canada lean more working class but are also pretty suburbanized.

Anecdotal, but the South Asian population in affluent urban centers generally appears to be minimal. Brownstone Brooklyn has minimal population. The only urban core, heavily South Asian geography I can think of is waterfront Jersey City, which has lots of South Asians in the newer towers. Long Island City is probably majority Asian, but primarily East Asian.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Anecdotal, but the South Asian population in affluent urban centers generally appears to be minimal. Brownstone Brooklyn has minimal population. The only urban core, heavily South Asian geography I can think of is waterfront Jersey City, which has lots of South Asians in the newer towers. Long Island City is probably majority Asian, but primarily East Asian.

It's really hard to tell, considering the Census doesn't distinguish between South and East Asian. That said, my understanding is there are South Asian enclaves in NYC (mostly Queens) which are a mix of Punjabi, Bangladeshi, and Indo-Guyanese/Indo-Trinidadian. I also think Bellerose is an Indian neighborhood in Queens.

It's also worth noting that if you're talking about Indian immigrants in general, the U.S. and Canada allow in different immigrant groups. U.S. migration is overwhelmingly upper-caste (or close) Hindus who were already well-to-do in India. In contrast, Canada accepts a lot of more middle-caste Indians and Sikhs in particular. There's a strong working-class Indian culture developing in Canada which doesn't really exist in the U.S. (or even the U.K.)

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by eschaton

It's really hard to tell, considering the Census doesn't distinguish between South and East Asian. That said, my understanding is there are South Asian enclaves in NYC (mostly Queens) which are a mix of Punjabi, Bangladeshi, and Indo-Guyanese/Indo-Trinidadian. I also think Bellerose is an Indian neighborhood in Queens.

Yeah, there are plenty of urban South Asian enclaves in the NYC area. Mostly in Queens, but Brooklyn/Bronx have heavily Muslim South Asian enclaves. I can walk to a Bangladeshi community in the Kensington neighborhood of Brooklyn, on the other side of Prospect Park. There's a Pakistani community right next to Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods, on Coney Island Avenue. And Jersey City has heavily South Asian urban neighborhoods. And of course the Guyanese, in Queens/Bronx.

I wasn't referring to the working class urban enclaves, but more the affluent, core precincts. Since the South Asian population in U.S. leans affluent, you'd think there would be some in the core districts. But they seem most concentrated in McMansion-land, with very little presence in urban cores and in traditional streetcar/railroad suburbia. Very few South Asians in the Dariens and Winnetkas, despite the excellent schools. Very few on the Upper West Side or in Pacific Heights.

Probably similar in Canada. Don't think there are many South Asians in Toronto's favored quarter along Yonge, but there are a ton in outer areas, like Brampton. You'd probably never guess Toronto was close to 20% South Asian if you stuck to the core neighborhoods.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah, there are plenty of urban South Asian enclaves in the NYC area. Mostly in Queens, but Brooklyn/Bronx have heavily Muslim South Asian enclaves. I can walk to a Bangladeshi community in the Kensington neighborhood of Brooklyn, on the other side of Prospect Park. There's a Pakistani community right next to Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods, on Coney Island Avenue. And Jersey City has heavily South Asian urban neighborhoods. And of course the Guyanese, in Queens/Bronx.

I wasn't referring to the working class urban enclaves, but more the affluent, core precincts. Since the South Asian population in U.S. leans affluent, you'd think there would be some in the core districts. But they seem most concentrated in McMansion-land, with very little presence in urban cores and in traditional streetcar/railroad suburbia. Very few South Asians in the Dariens and Winnetkas, despite the excellent schools. Very few on the Upper West Side or in Pacific Heights.

Probably similar in Canada. Don't think there are many South Asians in Toronto's favored quarter along Yonge, but there are a ton in outer areas, like Brampton. You'd probably never guess Toronto was close to 20% South Asian if you stuck to the core neighborhoods.

The South Asian migration to the U.S. is still quite new, and Indian-Americans in particular tend to come over as whole family units, rather than singletons. In contrast, East Asians have more second/third generation residents, and a lot more of them come to the U.S. for college or grad school when single and stick around.

I see the same dynamic within Pittsburgh. There's absolutely a growing Asian population in wealthy sections of the East End (Shadyside and Squirrel Hill in particular) but this tends to slant heavily East Asian. The South Asian population tends to be arrayed much more in new-build suburbia (discounting the more recent Bhutanese Nepali refugees, who are poor and in first-ring suburbs).

[JHikka]

Goes to show how poor our qualifiers are for visible minority categorization. South Asian, Black, SE Asian etc. are not good identifiers in general.

Originally Posted by Crawford

Probably similar in Canada. Don't think there are many South Asians in Toronto's favored quarter along Yonge, but there are a ton in outer areas, like Brampton. You'd probably never guess Toronto was close to 20% South Asian if you stuck to the core neighborhoods.

Correct. Downtown Core and North York are overwhelmingly Chinese or East Asian compared to places like Brampton or even Mississauga these days.

[Rico Rommheim]

What is 'diversity' anyways? Is it only racial? Let's say you've got a city that's 100% white, but is evenly distributed between dozens of different "white" languages, "white" ethnicities and "white" cultures (like the Balkans, say), does that qualify as diverse?

And also, what is a "latino", is it exclusively a non-black skinned person from central and south america? Half of Brazilians are white, so are they white or are they Latino? Are black people from central and south America black AND latino? Or are they only one? And if so, who decides?

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Probably similar in Canada. Don't think there are many South Asians in Toronto's favored quarter along Yonge, but there are a ton in outer areas, like Brampton. You'd probably never guess Toronto was close to 20% South Asian if you stuck to the core neighborhoods.

There's a growing number of South Asians in the downtown condos. The electoral district of Spadina-Fort York, which is dominated by condos, is 13% South Asian. However Chinese remain the largest visible minority group (14%).

But in the favored quarter and old money neighborhoods, the South Asian population is very small.

[CivicBlues]

And due to this expect the political rhetoric to start ramping up against India in the coming years.

"Modi is a dictator!" "Ultra-nationalist Hindu State" "Barbaric practices" "Flooding our countries with cheap labour"

Doesn't matter that they're a democracy. They'll get the Japan treatment circa 1980s once the China threat retrenches.

[Crawford]

Indians in the U.S. generally have very high incomes and ed levels. No doubt they could be demonized, but it will be a tougher climb. It's hard to make caricatures of Indians as lazy criminal moochers when your Indian neighbors own a successful startup, the kids are polite and academic-oriented, and family plans to build a mini-mansion down the street.

Re. Canadian and U.S. South Asians, the biggest (completely anecdotal) difference I notice is all the Sikh truckers in Canada. I don't ever recall seeing that in the U.S. Stuck on the 401, or Gardiner, half the trucks seem to be driven by Sikhs. A lot of the trucking companies have obvious South Asian names, too.

[Docere]

The Sikh population in Canada is quite blue collar/small business. Brampton and Surrey are working class suburbs.

[memph]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

What is 'diversity' anyways? Is it only racial? Let's say you've got a city that's 100% white, but is evenly distributed between dozens of different "white" languages, "white" ethnicities and "white" cultures (like the Balkans, say), does that qualify as diverse?

And also, what is a "latino", is it exclusively a non-black skinned person from central and south america? Half of Brazilians are white, so are they white or are they Latino? Are black people from central and south America black AND latino? Or are they only one? And if so, who decides?

Race is just one way of measuring diversity, yes. StatsCan tracks other measures such as languages and ethnicities which we can also discuss.

For the Canadian census, it seems that white Latinos are counted as "not a visible minority" rather than Latin American since the purpose of that category is to count visible minorities and I suppose a white Brazilian is no more visible than a white Serb. Arabs and West Asians who consider themselves to be white are also counted as "not a visible minority".

I believe Latin Americans of African ancestry would also be counted as black rather than Latin American, so I guess that means Latin American is reserved for people with sole or mixed indigenous ancestry? Of course this is also reliant on self reporting so if a white Latino checks "Latin American" but not "white" even though they have the option of checking both, which I'm sure happens, then they'll be counted as "Latin American". All in all I would not consider the visible minority of "Latin American" to be an accurate representation of total numbers of Latin Americans, just of their distribution and growth rates.

[memph]

Originally Posted by Docere

There's a growing number of South Asians in the downtown condos. The electoral district of Spadina-Fort York, which is dominated by condos, is 13% South Asian. However Chinese remain the largest visible minority group (14%).

But in the favored quarter and old money neighborhoods, the South Asian population is very small.

It seems South Asians outnumber Chinese in most of the Downtown Waterfront and Liberty Village, while the Chinese outnumber South Asians in the Entertainment District and the parts of Spadina-Fort York north of Queen St, which is not too surprising since that's closer to Chinatown. I suspect that as the South Asian immigration is now significantly outpacing Chinese immigration, areas that are continuing to build large quantities of condos will see the balance tip towards South Asians.

There are some central Toronto condo communities where South Asians outnumber Chinese beyond the Downtown Waterfront too. You also see that in Etobicoke Center, Humber Bay Shores, Yonge-St Clair and Yonge-Eglinton. However, they are typically still outnumbered by whites, and with a lot of other ethnic groups mixed in. Young educated South Asians living in central Toronto do not seem to prioritize living in an ethnic enclave that much, which makes sense to me.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

And if so, who decides?

The person filling out the form. It's self-reported data.

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by Docere

The person filling out the form. It's self-reported data.

Hmm interesting.