HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #101  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 10:58 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
At one time? That deserves the “Lol”.

Lithuania was part of Poland for over 400 YEARS!!!

Ethnically different? How so? This could be argued any number of ways, and it still all comes down to European regionalism identity vs. European unitary nationalism identity.

Ethnicity is based on common national and cultural tradition. Over 400 years of formal common nationality and culture exists in the case of Poland and Lithuania.
You must be Polish.

Lithuanian is a distinct language (Baltic) one of only 2 in the world (the other being Latvian) that is not related to any other Indo-European Language. It is derived from Sanskrit. It is the oldest European language. It is not Slavic. Polish is Slavic. Lithuania was the last place in Europe to convert to Catholicism and to this day, still has a strong traditions based in Paganism.

Polish people have big round faces with high cheek bones. Lithuanians do not. As someone who is 50% Lithuanian and has taken multiple DNA tests, I can tell you not an ounce of my DNA says "Polish". It very precisely tracks my origin to two municipalities in Lithuania and my family can track its history to the 1400s. No part of the family history is, oh yeah, "we're Polish".

Lithuanians speak Polish the way Danes speak Swedish and Finns Norwegian, etc. Because it's a very small place and its necessary to get by. And yes, there is a shared history but we are ethnically distinct.

Europeans have colonized this continent for 500 years at this point and it does not make Native Americans Anglo-European Americans.

Asking a Polish person if Lithuanians are the same as them is akin to asking a Greek if Macedonia is Greece or asking a Russian if Ukraine is Russia. It's incredibly ignorant.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #102  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 11:12 PM
pj3000's Avatar
pj3000 pj3000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pittsburgh & Miami
Posts: 7,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelback View Post
Not to dispute anything you say, because I know next to nothing about Lithuania and Poland, but the Moors ruled Spain for 700 years!!! (711-1492; when Columbus sailed the ocean blue). Most Spaniards and Spanish culture do not identify as being Arab or Islamic today.
Sure, the whole religion part of it really makes a BIG difference in ancestral identity. And that was over a half century ago. Poland and Lithuania were nearly a united nation again in the 1920s after WWI.

So I’m the context of people claiming these ethnicities in North America, there’s simply not much difference when one understands the history, particularly considering that the vast majority of people with these ancestries in the US and Canada had their great grandparents immigrate here when cultural ties between the nations were still quite strong.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #103  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 11:20 PM
Camelback Camelback is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
Sure, the whole religion part of it really makes a BIG difference in ancestral identity. And that was over a half century ago. Poland and Lithuania were nearly a united nation again in the 1920s after WWI.

So I’m the context of people claiming these ethnicities in North America, there’s simply not much difference when one understands the history, particularly considering that the vast majority of people with these ancestries in the US and Canada had their great grandparents immigrate here when cultural ties between the nations were still quite strong.
Oh yeah, religion is huge over there in Europe. Thanks for the reply, again I have no knowledge between the Poland and Lith, just curious because it's something I know nothing of.

The only anecdotal connection I have to the region is my brother in-law that grew up in Wisconsin is of Polish ancestry, born/raised outside Milwaukee and is 100% Americano (along with his parents). So I'm thinking it must've been his grandparents that immigrated to the midwest..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #104  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 12:00 AM
pj3000's Avatar
pj3000 pj3000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pittsburgh & Miami
Posts: 7,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
You must be Polish.

Lithuanian is a distinct language (Baltic) one of only 2 in the world (the other being Latvian) that is not related to any other Indo-European Language. It is derived from Sanskrit. It is the oldest European language. It is not Slavic. Polish is Slavic. Lithuania was the last place in Europe to convert to Catholicism and to this day, still has a strong traditions based in Paganism.

Polish people have big round faces with high cheek bones. Lithuanians do not. As someone who is 50% Lithuanian and has taken multiple DNA tests, I can tell you not an ounce of my DNA says "Polish". It very precisely tracks my origin to two municipalities in Lithuania and my family can track its history to the 1400s. No part of the family history is, oh yeah, "we're Polish".

Lithuanians speak Polish the way Danes speak Swedish and Finns Norwegian, etc. Because it's a very small place and its necessary to get by. And yes, there is a shared history but we are ethnically distinct.

Europeans have colonized this continent for 500 years at this point and it does not make Native Americans Anglo-European Americans.

Asking a Polish person if Lithuanians are the same as them is akin to asking a Greek if Macedonia is Greece or asking a Russian if Ukraine is Russia. It's incredibly ignorant.
I'm a mutt. My paternal great-grandfather was born in, grew up in, and immigrated as a young man to the US from Vilnius. He had a Polish surname. Hmmm... wonder how that happened?

Maybe it has just a little something to do with the fact that Poland and Lithuania were united as one for over 400 years, starting with the marriage of a Lithuanian guy to a Polish girl (who was of Hungarian and Bosnian ancestry).... see how that works?

Lithuanian is an archaic language, but it is not derived from the Indian Sanskrit. That is incorrect.

Morphology and genetics are not what we're talking about here. It makes zero sense to to even come close to getting into that considering it is a discussion of national identity.

You seem to be imparting a much more modern view of Lithuanian cultural identity, likely owing to the much more recent history of conflict between the two nations after WWI, and that's fine. It's one that holds fast to the "old ways" and is derived from subjugation by both the Polish and the Russians. Identity reclamation over the past century. European identity is filled with, and based on this. People can identify however they wish, but it doesn't change the facts of history. And that history is a shared national and cultural tradition, which stemmed from the Polonization of the region for well over four centuries.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #105  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 12:03 AM
pj3000's Avatar
pj3000 pj3000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pittsburgh & Miami
Posts: 7,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelback View Post
Oh yeah, religion is huge over there in Europe. Thanks for the reply, again I have no knowledge between the Poland and Lith, just curious because it's something I know nothing of.

The only anecdotal connection I have to the region is my brother in-law that grew up in Wisconsin is of Polish ancestry, born/raised outside Milwaukee and is 100% Americano (along with his parents). So I'm thinking it must've been his grandparents that immigrated to the midwest..
Probably his great-grandparents. Most Polish in the northeast and midwest came at the turn of the century immigration wave.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #106  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 3:42 AM
Shawn Shawn is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 5,935
One of my best friends over the years in Japan has been a Polish-born, West German-raised recording and concert pianist. He pegged me as "at least part Polish" within 5 minutes of our first conversation. This was impressive: everyone presumes I'm Irish by looks alone, even before they learn my name. I told him something like, "Close, I'm 1/4 Ukrainian", to which he said something like, "Yeah, like I said, you're at least part Polish."

If you're Ukrainian and you're from the actual ethnic homeland (Western Ukraine / Galicia), you're basically Eastern Polish or Southern Lithuanian separated by modern borders, as my friend likes to argue. Or, as I point out, if you're Polish or Lithuanian, you're really just Western and Northern Ukrainians. Kiev did come first, after all. Either way, you're certainly Catholic, which is why the daughter of Ukrainian immigrants living in Jamaica Plain, Boston had no problems marrying an Irish guy from Hyde Park the day after he returned from Japan in 1946 (my grandparents on my dad's side).

There was a moderately-sized Ukrainian community in JP centered around St. Andrew Church from the 1890s through the 1950s, but it's pretty much thinned out by now. Nothing like what you'd find in the Midwest, or in NY and PA however, even at its peak.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #107  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 3:54 AM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 5,991
The town of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernivtsi (Cernauţi in Romanian) has always fascinated me due to its history at a cross-roads. I should probably go visit it sometime, it looks lovely. https://www.google.com/maps/@48.2925...7i13312!8i6656
__________________
And here the air that I breathe isn't dead.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #108  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2021, 1:17 AM
Docere Docere is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,364
Poland before WWII was made up of made up of very different ethnic groups. About a third were not ethnic Poles. There was a sizeable Ukrainian minority and of course the largest Jewish population in Europe, and some Lithuanians and Germans as well.

Last edited by Docere; Apr 27, 2021 at 2:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #109  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2021, 1:54 AM
goldeneyed goldeneyed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
You must be Polish.

Lithuanian is a distinct language (Baltic) one of only 2 in the world (the other being Latvian) that is not related to any other Indo-European Language. It is derived from Sanskrit. It is the oldest European language. It is not Slavic. Polish is Slavic. Lithuania was the last place in Europe to convert to Catholicism and to this day, still has a strong traditions based in Paganism.

Polish people have big round faces with high cheek bones. Lithuanians do not. As someone who is 50% Lithuanian and has taken multiple DNA tests, I can tell you not an ounce of my DNA says "Polish". It very precisely tracks my origin to two municipalities in Lithuania and my family can track its history to the 1400s. No part of the family history is, oh yeah, "we're Polish".

Lithuanians speak Polish the way Danes speak Swedish and Finns Norwegian, etc. Because it's a very small place and its necessary to get by. And yes, there is a shared history but we are ethnically distinct.

Europeans have colonized this continent for 500 years at this point and it does not make Native Americans Anglo-European Americans.

Asking a Polish person if Lithuanians are the same as them is akin to asking a Greek if Macedonia is Greece or asking a Russian if Ukraine is Russia. It's incredibly ignorant.
While it's a fact that Lithuanians are a Baltic people and not Slavic, it's also a fact that Macedonia was historically was Greek, and not slavic. The country that is called North Macedonia is populated by Slavs, Bulgarians to be more precise, so yes, they are not Greek. However the name, culture and the most of the historical area of Macedonia was and is still in Greece.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #110  
Old Posted May 3, 2021, 9:22 PM
Docere Docere is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,364
Buffalo seems to be more known for its Polish than Italian presence, even though they're equally sized (about 15% each). Perhaps it's because pretty much all Upstate NY cities are heavily Italian American, while the Polish presence makes Buffalo more distinctive.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #111  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 1:27 PM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,913
I haven't been following this thread but Fairfield County, particularly Bridgeport, has a sizable Hungarian community.

"Hungarians were the largest new immigrant group to take up residence in Fairfield between 1900 and the '30s."

https://www.fairfieldcitizenonline.c...ct-5659181.php

Also, Sacramento has one of the biggest Ukrainian populations, with also a sizable population from Serbia and Belarus and Moldova. I think many of them were very religious and conservative.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...518-story.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #112  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 1:31 PM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,913
Vermont has a significant Bosnian refugee community. There was an effort in during the 1990s and 2000s to resettle refugees in smaller communities, where they wouldn't be overwhelmed and have to deal with high housing costs in large cities. Also, Vermont and Bosnia has roughly similar climate and geography.
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:37 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.