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  #81  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 6:02 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
Do people visit cities based on GDP per capita lists?

And population?!?! São Paulo is one of world’s largest cities and it’s one of the most important business centre in the world. It’s a massive banking, financial and logistical hub.

That doesn’t necessarily make it worth visiting for foreigners, but it’s a very important city.

ha chillax yuri -- i highly recommend visiting sao paulo. i've been twice and its a great place. there is no end of things to do and explore. unfortunately my visits were only for a few days at a time and i am the type that likes to spend a good week and a half at least when i visit somewhere, so i definitely need to go back.

funny enough my spouse works for a very large company that has offices around the world and they promote doing work abroads for 6wks at a time, where you trade homes with coworkers, so among other places sao paulo has been in play for us to do that next year, although we are leaning toward brisbane. we will see.
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  #82  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 6:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
Good points. Brazilian government has always promoted Rio de Janeiro while São Paulo was left alone. It had to conquer its space by itself and it kinda did: it became Brazilian primate city and its a much bigger reference domestically than Rio.

And regarding Rio, most tourists have no idea how rich its their architecture and historical heritage. They have churches, palaces, a 200 y/o botanic garden, that could fit in any big European city. For people into this kind of things, it's also an amazing city.
I would like to see SP, Rio, Salvador and Recife. It's a huge ass country which means spending 10 days to a couple of weeks to hit all those cities. Long flight from Houston or San Francisco.
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  #83  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
ha chillax yuri -- i highly recommend visiting sao paulo. i've been twice and its a great place. there is no end of things to do and explore. unfortunately my visits were only for a few days at a time and i am the type that likes to spend a good week and a half at least when i visit somewhere, so i definitely need to go back.

funny enough my spouse works for a very large company that has offices around the world and they promote doing work abroads for 6wks at a time, where you trade homes with coworkers, so among other places sao paulo has been in play for us to do that next year, although we are leaning toward brisbane. we will see.
That's nice to hear! São Paulo, as not an-obvious touristic place, is a bit harder for outsiders to make sense of it. You need locals to guide you through it, specially as places like restaurants, bars, are always changing, there is always the new hottest spot. In fact, even for locals it's hard to keep pace.

Anyway, if you guys chose São Paulo, please PM me for tips or anything for make the most of the city.


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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I would like to see SP, Rio, Salvador and Recife. It's a huge ass country which means spending 10 days to a couple of weeks to hit all those cities. Long flight from Houston or San Francisco.
Yeah, it's a bit like the US. It's hard to squeeze the whole country into a single trip. Salvador, and to a lesser extent Recife and Rio de Janeiro, vendors are quite agressive on the non-upmarket touristic hotspots (like their historical cores). Even domestic tourists are bothered by it. In São Paulo things are way more "normal", functional. It's very different. However, if you should keep in mind Downtown still recoveries from one of the biggest urban decay anywhere in the world. It might be a bit rough, so caution is advised. On other parts of the city, it's ok.

There are direct flight from São Paulo to Houston and Dallas. For San Francisco, I don't think so.
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  #84  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Yuri View Post
That's nice to hear! São Paulo, as not an-obvious touristic place, is a bit harder for outsiders to make sense of it.
This is why I would love to visit there as it is how Brazil really is without all the touristy stuff. When I was in Japan, I spent the most time in cities that weren't touristy which was cool. There were very few other foreigners around and hardly anyone knew English.
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  #85  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 9:07 PM
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That is a very new trend. A decade ago almost nobody was talking about Mexico City as a tourist destination.
I've been to the major tourist spots in Mexico, except Mexico City. I was warned not to get in a taxi there if I ever go. I've heard it has changed a lot for the better, but not much is dragging me that I must go, see or experience MC.
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  #86  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 9:15 PM
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Uber is everywhere in Mexico City, and safe. IMO Mexico City is to Mexico as Paris is to France. You have to see it to understand the country.

Keep in mind the country was named after the city. The city is officially just Mexico. When Mexicans (in Mexico) say "I'm headed to Mexico" everyone knows what they mean. Mexico City is Mexico and everything else is the provinces.
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  #87  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 10:49 PM
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Uber is everywhere in Mexico City, and safe. IMO Mexico City is to Mexico as Paris is to France. You have to see it to understand the country.

Keep in mind the country was named after the city. The city is officially just Mexico. When Mexicans (in Mexico) say "I'm headed to Mexico" everyone knows what they mean. Mexico City is Mexico and everything else is the provinces.
I picked up on this very quickly when I was working in Monterrey--when they are talking about Mexico as a proper noun in the context of travel, they are usually referring to Mexico City.
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  #88  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2022, 10:54 PM
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Brazil has 2 megacities like the US and so they each get attention for different things. Rio is famous for beaches, samba, carnaval, scenery etc.

But Sao Paulo is definitely the economic heart of the entire country, and is home to the most multinational corporate headquarters for the entire continent, and most people involved in business know that.

In a sense, Rio=LA, Sao Paulo=NYC

And Brazil has a lot of other large cities as well.
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  #89  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 2:05 AM
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Wrong, the Mexican federal govt. trucked in the beaches, built the infrastructure and built the first dozen or so hotels. It was a gigantic project, pretty much the signature economic development project of the postwar era. Also wildly successful. Cancun was built on nothing. There were a few impoverished fishing villages in the area, but nothing else. It was a jungle island.
No, it had the beaches before construction ever started. The hotel zone was an elongated sandbar in the shape of a large 7, not connected to the mainland. Lots of infrastructure did have to be done, that should be pretty obvious to anyone. They also contoured and reshaped the lagoon, but absolutely nothing had to be done to the beaches. To claim they are artificial is an outright lie.
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  #90  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 5:44 AM
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Originally Posted by atlantaguy View Post
To claim they are artificial is an outright lie.
At this point in time though, it's not inaccurate. The Mexican government has to dredge new sand from the bottom of the Caribbean for annual "beach nourishment". Not exactly unique to Cancun, but because most of the sandbar the hotels are on is partially artificial and because all the mangrove barrier islands were destroyed to make for unobstructed beaches, the sand erosion is substantial. Without the "beach nourishment," Cancun's beaches would have all been naturally reclaimed by now.
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  #91  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 5:53 AM
Shawn Shawn is offline
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This is either a 1968 or 1970 pic of Cancun, for reference (it's titled 1968 but the URL says 1970):





source

So, clearly there were sandy beaches, but not nearly as beefed up as they are now.
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  #92  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
This is why I would love to visit there as it is how Brazil really is without all the touristy stuff. When I was in Japan, I spent the most time in cities that weren't touristy which was cool. There were very few other foreigners around and hardly anyone knew English.
São Paulo is great for that as it's a microcosm of Brazil. From the early 20th century European and Japanese immigrants to the Great Northeast Migration (they're over 40% of SP considering descendants) and all people from upstate, Southern Brazil, Minas Gerais and even Rio de Janeiro.

And as foreigners usually have a very distorted image of Brazil, it might be a pleasant surprise.
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Last edited by Yuri; Dec 9, 2022 at 1:09 PM.
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  #93  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 1:23 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
This is either a 1968 or 1970 pic of Cancun, for reference (it's titled 1968 but the URL says 1970):





source

So, clearly there were sandy beaches, but not nearly as beefed up as they are now.

wow.

now that was a true paradise.

not the midwesterner schlubs scene it is today.

oh well.

mexico needs beach resorts too, so ...
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  #94  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 2:12 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
This is either a 1968 or 1970 pic of Cancun, for reference (it's titled 1968 but the URL says 1970):





source

So, clearly there were sandy beaches, but not nearly as beefed up as they are now.
I don't doubt there were sandy beaches pre-development, but these pics are clearly post-development. There are roadways and condos. The initial bridge had been built.

It obviously looks nothing like today, but it doesn't look like pre-development stage, either. Most of those tropical barrier islands are heavily mangrove, and so the general area was probably a combo of natural beaches and mangroves, growing and receding over the years.
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  #95  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't doubt there were sandy beaches pre-development, but these pics are clearly post-development. There are roadways and condos. The initial bridge had been built.

It obviously looks nothing like today, but it doesn't look like pre-development stage, either. Most of those tropical barrier islands are heavily mangrove, and so the general area was probably a combo of natural beaches and mangroves, growing and receding over the years.
You were wrong, period. Something you have never been able to admit to in the 20+ years I've been here. Just like Trump, you just double down. Your claim that the beaches are artificial is a flat-out lie, and the photographic proof is right in front of us.
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  #96  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2022, 7:45 PM
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From above, Sao Paulo's older areas remind me of Kowloon, Hong Kong:
IMG_4380 by Grzegorz Dymon, on Flickr
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  #97  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2022, 6:14 AM
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Always loved this image of the city. I've long suspected it's the world's most built up city (most highrises), but no stats from the local govt on that.

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  #98  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2022, 6:51 AM
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Originally Posted by destroycreate View Post
Disclaimer before I get dragged - I know my take is more of a Euro/NA centric view.

Unlike other major megacities of the world, São Paulo (22M+ people!) which is the economic powerhouse of this country doesn't seem super romanticized or desirable from a global media/collective consciousness perspective. Yet from what I hear, the quality of life and safety is far better there than Rio, and it's extremely diverse and cosmopolitan...and it represents a microcosm of the multi-faceted nature of Brazil.

Aside from distance, what hinders São Paulo's status as aremier tourist destination in the league of Tokyo, Mexico City, Shanghai, NYC or London?
Giant, sprawling mega cities like Sao Paulo, Los Angeles, Tokyo, London, Berlin, New York and Chicago etc. get their share of tourists, especially if they have attractions like Hollywood, Disneyland, major museums and the like. But many tourists seem to prefer the more compact, picturesque places like San Francisco, New Orleans, Rio, or the obvious tourist playgrounds of places like Las Vegas and Orlando. When many people go on vacation, they want to relax and unwind. It can be hard to do that in a large busy working city. Of course cultural tourists do go to the big cities with historical buildings, museums, famous palaces etc. Ideally a big city is also charming and scenic. Paris or Rome, for example. The tourists love those. I'm sure Sao Paulo has its charms. But Rio pulls the tourists.

Last edited by CaliNative; Dec 10, 2022 at 7:17 AM.
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  #99  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2022, 7:05 AM
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Fairly of not, Sao Paulo isn't widely known for having any particular character that would draw tourists halfway across the planet. What qualities does Sao Paulo possess that are unique to that city?
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  #100  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2022, 10:50 AM
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^The world's biggest party town. With a permanent market for 20 million + partygoers, imbedded in the national psyche (not to mention tropical setting).

Pretty much a default to the world's biggest celebrations of whatever type whenever one comes along

Pride - 5 million






Carnaval - - 15 million (yes you read that right)









Elections (impromptu party after fall of Bolsanaro):






New Year's Eve - 2.3 million











Nightlife as per norm









Last edited by muppet; Dec 10, 2022 at 11:33 AM.
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