California High Speed Rail Thread

[mfastx]

Anyone who claims that "we" as taxpayers cannot afford HSR needs a reality check. HSR is a drop in the bucket compared to our national budget. Hell, it's even a drop in the bucked compared to the California transportation budget, lol.

[M II A II R II K]

And then there's the long term benefits of having it freeing up the skies and the roadways.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by skyscraperfan23

First of all I'm not a teabagger (the real tea party has been hijacked by the neocons) and second of all, I Think the government should stay out of HSR, I Love HSR, But government should not using OUR taxpayer money to build this, we cannot afford it.

You do realize that more federal money was spent on highways in 2010 than has been spent on Amtrak in its entire forty year history combined.

http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey...ing-last-year/

Should the government not pay to build and maintain roads and highways either? Who needs facts when these teabaggers have their Ayn Rand, neo-Hoover ideology?

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by skyscraperfan23

First of all I'm not a teabagger (the real tea party has been hijacked by the neocons) and second of all, I Think the government should stay out of HSR, I Love HSR, But government should not using OUR taxpayer money to build this, we cannot afford it.

hmmm how about highways? should govt get out of the way? how about sewer systems? you sound like a parrot whos been stuck in front of a tv showing fox news on loop

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

You do realize that more federal money was spent on highways in 2010 than has been spent on Amtrak in its entire forty year history combined.

http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey...ing-last-year/

Should the government not pay to build and maintain roads and highways either? Who needs facts when these teabaggers have their Ayn Rand, neo-Hoover ideology?

you're arguing with a rock

[dimondpark]

I guess Matier and Ross are now 2 fascist conservative puppets. lol

Bay Area faces new high-speed rail costs

Phillip Matier and Andrew Ross, Chronicle Columnists

Published 09:10 p.m., Sunday, July 22, 2012

Now that Gov. Jerry Brown has signed legislation to allow the state to spend billions on high-speed rail, Bay Area residents had better brace for the real ride - a push for $650 million in toll hikes and new San Francisco taxes.

That's how much will be needed to help pay for a tunnel to connect the Transbay Terminal to the Caltrain station at Fourth and King streets.

As it turns out, none of the $2.5 billion in tunnel costs were included as part of the narrowly approved high-speed-rail deal.

It's up to the locals to make the tunnel happen. If they don't, the $68 billion high-speed-rail line from Los Angeles will dead-end several blocks from downtown proper.

Building the tunnel will put San Francisco in competition with those hoping to finish BART to San Jose - both projects will be tussling for $1.8 billion that the federal government will direct to the Bay Area in the coming years...

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier...ts-3726796.php

[dimondpark]

I still dont know why they didnt build the LA-SD line first? That makes more sense imo.

Maybe it would have been more exciting(and energizing to the public) if they had 2 separate projects to connect LA-SD and SF-Sac first and then build their way toward each other? I guess that's too big of a dream nowadays-especially with the whole thing about us being broke. lol

Anyway, my biggest gripe about this Governor and Democratic legislature pushing this thing through is the fact that they know most voters would vote to repeal this entire thing if they could, and going against the will of the people(a bad habit that appears to be an emerging problem with Sacramento nowadays)

Meanwhile Brown thinks nothing of threatening deep cuts to K-12 education, Community colleges, CSU and UC, social programs that help the needy, health care programs and so forth.

AND I DONT CARE IF this train has a separate bond----at the end of the day the taxpayers that are footing the bill regardless. Voters agreed to one thing and then it was inflated to 98 Billion and now it supposedly wittled down to 68 billion(or so they think). That's not what we voted on in 2008.

That alone makes this whole thing null and void as far as Im concerned.

And that speaks nothing of the fact that ZERO private investors have been identified and that was a major selling point. And so forth.

[jg6544]

Originally Posted by skyscraperfan23

You can have your high speed rail california, enjoy it.
thank god our state made it possible to reject it and allowing the free market like FEC to build their own.

Yes, the "free" market has done such an outstanding job of developing passenger rail, hasn't it.

[jg6544]

Originally Posted by skyscraperfan23

First of all I'm not a teabagger (the real tea party has been hijacked by the neocons) and second of all, I Think the government should stay out of HSR, I Love HSR, But government should not using OUR taxpayer money to build this, we cannot afford it.

You realize, with this attitude, we might not have had a transcontinental railroad (or railroads in most other places) until the 20th Century, if then.

[skyscraperfan23]

Originally Posted by mfastx

Anyone who claims that "we" as taxpayers cannot afford HSR needs a reality check. HSR is a drop in the bucket compared to our national budget. Hell, it's even a drop in the bucked compared to the California transportation budget, lol.

and it will add to california's national budget even further

Ya'll need to cut spending and cut spending now.

[skyscraperfan23]

Originally Posted by jg6544

Yes, the "free" market has done such an outstanding job of developing passenger rail, hasn't it.

Because it's working well and without taxpayers expense, unlike you big government loving libs.

And I'm neither liberal nor conservative, those terms mean nothing today.

[mfastx]

Originally Posted by skyscraperfan23

and it will add to california's national budget even further

Ya'll need to cut spending and cut spending now.

Y'all? I don't live in California. It will add to it by about 1% maybe? I know it's only like 5% of the transportation budget. And the transportation budget is what percentage of the federal budget?

If one is looking at things to cut in the budget, only an idiot will look at HSR spending first. There are many, many other larger expenses that need to be curtailed.

[skyscraperfan23]

Originally Posted by drifting sun

Who is "we" and what is "our taxpayer money"? Whatever you call yourself, I always find it amusing that people with your philosophical bent apparently assume that your opinion on government spending and involvement in infrastructure projects is either held by the majority, or that the segment of Americans that support taxpayer spending is the "kool-aid majority".

I am also a taxpayer, and I would like nothing more than more of the money I contribute to Federal taxes to be allocated to these sorts of projects, and if I was far wealthier than I am now, I wouldn't object at all to even more of my earnings being "stolen" for the greater good, even as imperfect as it may be at times. So, speak for yourself, and since you already have multiple times, and if you have nothing else to contribute except for vague, anti-government rants, then go away.

At least Pesto criticizes specific issues involved with these projects, and even raises legitimate concerns....sometimes.

One of my concerns is that they eventually electrify the whole route(s). Do we know if this in the long-term scope of the plan? I am not too keen on the prospect of dmu's chugging along the central valley at 90-110 mph spewing out sooty exhaust. I had an opportunity earlier this year to take Caltrain down to Palo Alto from San Francisco, and while I enjoyed the ride, I would have enjoyed it much more gliding along under smooth electric power.

Because I Refuse to spend taxpayer money that I Don't have, come on $68 billion dollars for HSR, while their debt is at 389 Billion dollars, what a joke.
we need to cut spending.

[drifting sun]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

I guess Matier and Ross are now 2 fascist conservative puppets. lol

Well, I guess that answers my earlier question, sort of.

Why do they need a connecting tunnel? Wouldn't it be acceptable to have HSR terminate at the existing Caltrain station? I know that the Transbay Terminal is supposed to be at the Nexus of Reality and so forth, but if they upgraded the T-line (or whichever one passes through the Caltrain station right now) and made it better, more reliable, more frequent, and added a connection to one of the other MUNI lines going in some other direction, that wouldn't put riders too far from all the action would it?

[skyscraperfan23]

Originally Posted by mfastx

Y'all? I don't live in California. It will add to it by about 1% maybe? I know it's only like 5% of the transportation budget. And the transportation budget is what percentage of the federal budget?

If one is looking at things to cut in the budget, only an idiot will look at HSR spending first. There are many, many other larger expenses that need to be curtailed.

How about slash all california spending.

[skyscraperfan23]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

I still dont know why they didnt build the LA-SD line first? That makes more sense imo.

Maybe it would have been more exciting(and energizing to the public) if they had 2 separate projects to connect LA-SD and SF-Sac first and then build their way toward each other? I guess that's too big of a dream nowadays-especially with the whole thing about us being broke. lol

Anyway, my biggest gripe about this Governor and Democratic legislature pushing this thing through is the fact that they know most voters would vote to repeal this entire thing if they could, and going against the will of the people(a bad habit that appears to be an emerging problem with Sacramento nowadays)

Meanwhile Brown thinks nothing of threatening deep cuts to K-12 education, Community colleges, CSU and UC, social programs that help the needy, health care programs and so forth.

AND I DONT CARE IF this train has a separate bond----at the end of the day the taxpayers that are footing the bill regardless. Voters agreed to one thing and then it was inflated to 98 Billion and now it supposedly wittled down to 68 billion(or so they think). That's not what we voted on in 2008.

That alone makes this whole thing null and void as far as Im concerned.

And that speaks nothing of the fact that ZERO private investors have been identified and that was a major selling point. And so forth.

Thank you for defending me, thank god I Don't live in california

Plus this HSR will also destroy california's farms as we know it.


http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/C...il-3684819.php

thank god a lot of people are fleeing that state.

[Foley Santamaria]

Enough with the political talk, both sides.

What do you support skyscraperfan as it relates to this thread? Otherwise, please stop in this thread. You have made your opinions clear.

[drifting sun]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

I still dont know why they didnt build the LA-SD line first? That makes more sense imo.

Maybe it would have been more exciting(and energizing to the public) if they had 2 separate projects to connect LA-SD and SF-Sac first and then build their way toward each other? I guess that's too big of a dream nowadays-especially with the whole thing about us being broke. lol

Anyway, my biggest gripe about this Governor and Democratic legislature pushing this thing through is the fact that they know most voters would vote to repeal this entire thing if they could, and going against the will of the people(a bad habit that appears to be an emerging problem with Sacramento nowadays)

Meanwhile Brown thinks nothing of threatening deep cuts to K-12 education, Community colleges, CSU and UC, social programs that help the needy, health care programs and so forth.

AND I DONT CARE IF this train has a separate bond----at the end of the day the taxpayers that are footing the bill regardless. Voters agreed to one thing and then it was inflated to 98 Billion and now it supposedly wittled down to 68 billion(or so they think). That's not what we voted on in 2008.

That alone makes this whole thing null and void as far as Im concerned.

And that speaks nothing of the fact that ZERO private investors have been identified and that was a major selling point. And so forth.

Yeah, well why was it inflated to "98 billion"? It couldn't have been due at all to all the time and effort taken to try to appease every last NIMBY and conservative think-tank troll by altering the route every 5 minutes, could it?

Nah, it couldn't be any of that - as Skyscraperfan23 and others will tell you, you know, because they possess infinite wisdom and all that, it's all because whenever the big, oppressive government gets involved in anything, it is always less efficient and TRAMPLES ON EVERYONE'S GOD-GIVEN RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS!!

[skyscraperfan23]

Originally Posted by drifting sun

Yeah, well why was it inflated to "98 billion"? It couldn't have been due at all to all the time and effort taken to try to appease every last NIMBY and conservative think-tank troll by altering the route every 5 minutes, could it?

Nah, it couldn't be any of that - as Skyscraperfan23 and others will tell you, you know, because they possess infinite wisdom and all that, it's all because whenever the big, oppressive government gets involved in anything, it is always less efficient and TRAMPLES ON EVERYONE'S GOD-GIVEN RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS!!

There is nothing liberal nor conservative about this, big government owns both parties and this taxpayer spending HSR in california is only gonna deepen the problems this state's debt has done.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by drifting sun

Nah, it couldn't be any of that - as Skyscraperfan23 and others will tell you, you know, because they possess infinite wisdom and all that, it's all because whenever the big, oppressive government gets involved in anything, it is always less efficient and TRAMPLES ON EVERYONE'S GOD-GIVEN RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS!!

Yawn. Please spare us the trite diatribe.

Regardless of political persuasion, most polls indicate that most Californians no longer support building a high speed rail system.

The sock-it-to-the-right mentality by exteme left-wingers on this issue(just like Neocons on the flip side) will eventually be their undoing as cooler heads always prevail in the end. The only problem with that is that these colossal policy blunders cost us tons of money. So I hope the Central Valley enjoys their new Disneyland-like Monorail, because that is how this is all going to end.

Brown thinks that just because we've starting spending money will obligate us to spend whatever else is necessary. Such thinking is foolish, at best.