California High Speed Rail Thread

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Rail and transit projects always get 100x more scrutiny than highway and airport projects

That makes sense because 85 percent of Americans commute by car.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

He was talking about flying from wherever he lives to Vegas. This is his quote:




And he has this unfounded idea that a high speed train ticket would cost 1500 bucks and only rich people would use it. Where is *that* coming from, I wonder?

You think a ticket needs to be $1,500 hundred dollars for it be expensive? I know so many people who can't even afford a $300 plane ticket to see their families often.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by electricron

amtrak only provides a bus service between bakersfield and los angeles today, so there is no way at all for the possibility of la to sf passengers using the soon to be completed newly laid tracks in the central valley exclusively by train. Buses will still be needed.

People criticize the privately funded hsr train from victorville to las vegas as being incomplete, because people will need to ride buses from la to victorville - yet few advocates admit the same with the bus ride la to bakersfield????

The only portion of the chsr track improvements that la to sf can use for the foreseeable future without using buses will be the corridor electrification between san jose and san francisco - which amtrak doesn’t run trains on and probably never will. So those riding any of amtrak’s trains running in california between la and san jose will have to transfer trains in san jose. Even if they rode the trains to emeryville, they’re still taking a bus into san francisco.

I’ll repeat what i wrote before, the first segments chsr should have built are the missing links in amtrak’s california portfolio; bakersfield to los angeles and san jose to san francisco. You know, where they could use federal funding where it is needed most, on the most expensive sections of the hsr corridor.

+1

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda

That makes sense because 85 percent of Americans commute by car.

Do Venetians prefer gondolas?

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Do Venetians prefer gondolas?

Well, they can't use cars or bikes. Gondolas are for tourists, and usually operate on limited routes. Venetians usually walk or take a boat everywhere within the city, and there are a many boat services available.

[phoenixboi08]

Alstom's completing its test track at its Hornell facility in preparation for eventual testing of Avelia trainsets for Amtrak's Acela.

• Video Link

I'm still intrigued to see how they bid; I have a suspicion there could be a joint Seimens-Alstom bid (although, maybe that isn't all too realistic).

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by electricron

Well, they can't use cars or bikes. Gondolas are for tourists, and usually operate on limited routes. Venetians usually walk or take a boat everywhere within the city, and there are a many boat services available.

Did Venetians vote for gondolas? Where are all of the local and state road projects that the electorate votes for or against? That's right, they don't. My city hasn't had a road project of any kind on the ballot since 1956. No local road improvement, no expressway project. Nothing. The merits of absolutely nothing debated and presented to the electorate in 62 years. Yet public transportation is endlessly harassed and Amtrak service is nearly non-existent.

But the little tea partiers and little libertarians get to have their little parties and scratch one another's backs and pretend there is some sort of level playing field out there, all the while taking money from the little old ladies they trick into sending their similarly insane candidates money.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Did Venetians vote for gondolas? Where are all of the local and state road projects that the electorate votes for or against? That's right, they don't.

Venice has been having elections long before America's founding fathers wrote the Declaration of Independence. They elected their first Doge in 697. I strongly suggest discussions over transit or mobility have occurred thousands of times since.

[phoenixboi08]

Seems they're settling on a final alignment for the Burbank-LA segment at least...
Still waiting for the Palmdale-Burbank (one can hope they settle on something as close to the original SR14 alignment -- or, anything that involves as little tunneling as possible).

High-speed rail officials update public on Burbank-to-L.A. section of project
By ANTHONY CLARK CARPIO
SEP 07, 2018 | 5:00 PM


The proposed Burbank to Los Angeles section of the state high-speed rail project is still projected to be built alongside the existing tracks used by Metro, Metrolink, Amtrak and freight operators. (Courtesy of the California High Speed Rail Authority)

The proposed route hasn’t changed since the last time it was discussed in Burbank and Glendale about two years ago. The project would be built alongside an existing railway currently used by Metro, Metrolink, Amtrak and freight operators.

However, the train would travel underground using a proprietary railway as it approaches the north side of the Hollywood Burbank Airport, and it would have its station platform at that location below roadway traffic.

The train would continue traveling below grade through Buena Vista Street and rise to the roadway level by the time it reaches the Empire Center.

Officials were previously considering having the train travel at grade level with the existing railway and have the station platform located where the new Metrolink station was built just north of the Hollywood Burbank Airport.

“The approach is to try and grade-separate the corridor so that we have the safest condition possible,” De La Peña said.

De La Peña added the stretch will move passengers from San Francisco to Los Angeles within two hours and 40 minutes.

While speeds are estimated to reach over 200 mph on the bullet train as it travels through the Central Valley, De La Peña said the train will slow down to around 100 mph once it reaches Burbank until it arrives at Union Station.

[green_man]

Originally Posted by phoenixboi08

Seems they're settling on a final alignment for the Burbank-LA segment at least...
Still waiting for the Palmdale-Burbank (one can hope they settle on something as close to the original SR14 alignment -- or, anything that involves as little tunneling as possible).

Is the advantage of the SR14 alignment primarily financial? I could see it adding more time to the trip, but OTOH I have no idea if trains are prohibited from running at full speed through tunnels, so maybe it balances out.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Do Venetians prefer gondolas?

I haven't been to Venice and I don't know what they want. Also kind of hard to compare a city in a country like Italy to the U.S. when it's smaller than some states we have here. Not to mention you picked out a city that people often travel to only because of how unique its transportation situation is.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

But the little tea partiers and little libertarians get to have their little parties and scratch one another's backs and pretend there is some sort of level playing field out there, all the while taking money from the little old ladies they trick into sending their similarly insane candidates money.

Surely can't be too different than how commuters are tricked into buying the "building this light-rail line will reduce traffic congestion because adding more lanes won't work." Which is bull.

If induced demand really existed as claimed, than every freeway would be bumper to bumper.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda

I haven't been to Venice and I don't know what they want.

The point is that people use what is available to them. In the United States, we do not have public votes for road projects -- ever. The public did not vote to build the interstate highway system, it just happened. In fact it took huge efforts to stop them.

The public does not vote to build or expand airports. It just happens. They are not managed by elected officials.

But rail? Look out. Is harassed endlessly by anti-tax man-boys. Local transit and intercity rail are presented as hobgoblins. Pro-transit, pro-train people are smeared. Randal O'Toole is hired to write a hit piece for the paper.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

The point is that people use what is available to them. In the United States, we do not have public votes for road projects -- ever. The public did not vote to build the interstate highway system, it just happened. In fact it took huge efforts to stop them.

The public does not vote to build or expand airports. It just happens. They are not managed by elected officials.

But rail? Look out. Is harassed endlessly by anti-tax man-boys. Local transit and intercity rail are presented as hobgoblins. Pro-transit, pro-train people are smeared. Randal O'Toole is hired to write a hit piece for the paper.

The public didn't vote for the railroads either when they were first established. We had 9,000 miles of rail in 1850 and 130,000 miles of rail by 1890.

Today's roads and rail do require approval from voters because we have 330 million people in huge established cities. You can't just plow through cities anymore or build from scratch without effecting private properties.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

I'm talking about rail transit and high speed rail, not intercity freight railroads. I think everyone understood that but you.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I'm talking about rail transit and high speed rail, not intercity freight railroads. I think everyone understood that but you.

There WAS rail transit on a lot of those routes when they were built.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

The point is that people use what is available to them. In the United States, we do not have public votes for road projects -- ever. The public did not vote to build the interstate highway system, it just happened. In fact it took huge efforts to stop them.

The public does not vote to build or expand airports. It just happens. They are not managed by elected officials.

But rail? Look out. Is harassed endlessly by anti-tax man-boys. Local transit and intercity rail are presented as hobgoblins. Pro-transit, pro-train people are smeared. Randal O'Toole is hired to write a hit piece for the paper.

That's a very untrue statement suggesting the American public never votes on highway and transit projects. I've voted for both bonding programs at the city and county levels in recent year where I live, and some have voted for bonding programs at the state level. It's only the Federal government in America that doesn't hold referendums. While it varies state to state; city, county, and states do hold referendums.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Do Venetians prefer gondolas?

They prefer boats, obviously. Venetians travel via a massive boat network.

Gondolas are very expensive and only for tourists.

[Busy Bee]

The Venetian boat buses, one of the most unique transit experiences in the world imo.

[jamesinclair]

Originally Posted by phoenixboi08

I've never found any decent, up-to-date KMZs of the current route alignments, station locations, etc. (the Authority really needs to put something like this on their site. Their current map isn't useful at all).


If nothing else, it's interesting to quickly identify some of the construction sites/land clearing that's been taking place -- although, I'm fairly certain Google Maps may not have been updated since I last examined the route over a 1.5 years ago? I'm not sure how frequently this data gets updated.

You can tell it's not too old because the ]Tuolome St. Bridge[/URL] seems complete, but stuff like the Cottonwood Creek Viaduct, Cedar Viaduct, etc aren't very visible ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?

Anyways, if anyone has anything more recent/better, please share.

On google earth, on the top bar, the 7th button from the left lets you choose which date you view the image.

This allows you to do two things:

1. Identify the exact date youre looking at
2. In some cases, view newer images than the default. Many times the default image will be older because it is better (ie, clouds or bad shadows).

You can see all of Fresno as taken on 2/18/2018