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  #8341  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Catholic schools had plummeting enrollment during the pandemic, and much worse than public schools. So parents generally didn't share your perspective.

My sister has all her kids in a Catholic elementary, and there were most certainly "big issues" with remote learning. It was a mess.
Every school and every system is different.

My kids were in private high school when the pandemic hit.

Online learning which they had never experimented with before got off the ground very quickly and we actually didn't miss that many days.

This was of course helped by the fact that it's a private school with lots of resources and that basically every kid had a fast Internet connection at home and a computer or iPad.

At least here our public schools got out of the gate much more slowly with online learning and even when it was up and running student assiduity and follow-up wasn't really up to snuff.

For a lot of my kids' friends who go to public school March to June 2020 was basically a write-off in terms of their learning.

Starting in Sept. 2020 it was a bit better as they had the summer to work out a lot of kinks.

It is what it is.
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  #8342  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
just fine. my younger son attended his day care every weekday without issue for 5 months while my kindergarten daughter stared into a laptop screen all day long.
well good for you if true.

maybe you should have sent the other to a private or parochial school for awhile?

i mean we are only talking from march, 2020 to march, 2021 here from the start of the pandemic until schools could reopen (safely after vaxxes were available by feb, 2021 that is). yes it has an effect on kids, just like it has on the rest of us, but kids are rubber and its not the end of the world.
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  #8343  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 3:05 PM
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yes i did and now you see the difference between the fact that instruction, which is the educators job, was not interrupted at all, or hardly at all. sorry about your kid sitting needs, but that isnt in their job description. and do you also really need reminded it wasn't just schools, that lots of buildings and businesses were closed, including day care naturally? why should front line lives have been needlessly jeopardized? safety should and did come first. one would think you would be glad your kids had their teachers to come back to.
Bullshit.

As a taxpayer, it’s the job of the school to watch our kids, feed them, provide them a safe space for part of the day, AND to friggin educate them.

Period.

And guess what, most parents agree with me. This is why the amount of outrage built up over time, even in the most Left-leaning areas of the country where unions have more sway, and the unions realized that the overwhelming frustration of the parents over remote learning was too much of a tidal wave for them to even try to fight a battle over. They knew they would lose so they didn’t bother.

The overwhelming consensus of parents won. Kids belong in school, and it’s the duty of schools to house our children for part of the day.

Your butt-hurt feelings and the feelings of teachers over this are irrelevant. Policy is dictated by the consensus of the taxpayer. Sorry dude, might as well get over it.
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  #8344  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 3:06 PM
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maybe you should have sent the other to a private or parochial school for awhile?
we tried, but the 2 catholic schools near us didn't have any kindergarten slots open. once CPS announced it was gonna remain 100% remote for the start of the 20/21 school year, the catholic schools around us ran out of room pronto. we didn't act fast enough.

working parents need a place for their kids to go everyday so that they can get their shit done.




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i mean we are only talking from march, 2020 to march, 2021 here from the start of the pandemic until schools could reopen (safely after vaxxes were available by feb, 2021 that is).
in chicago, even after february 2021, CPS only went to a hybrid model for the remainder of the school year (2 days in school, 3 days remote) because the teachers union was STILL balking about going back into the classroom, even after they could all get vaxxed.

the union started playing their usual stupid political games with the crisis, to the detriment of everyone involved except themselves.
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  #8345  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
we tried, but the 2 catholic schools near us didn't have any kindergarten slots open. once CPS announced it was gonna remain 100% remote for the start of the 20/21 school year, the catholic schools around us ran out of room pronto. we didn't act fast enough.

working parents need a place for their kids to go everyday so that they can get their shit done.






in chicago, even after february 2021, CPS only went to a hybrid model for the remained of the school year (2 days in school, 3 days remote) because the teachers union was STILL balking about going back into the classroom, even after they could all get vaxxed.

the union started playing their usual political games with the crisis, to the detriment of everyone except themselves.

well the teachers union is by far the most powerful out here in nyc and they went for reopening, although i understand at that point some teachers and students could opt for remote until the end of the last school year. but they did go back to reopening and daily in person school last march, immediately a month after the vaxx was widely available. this was big news at the time of course.

a lot of other school districts around the country were open in the fall, 2020. reckless! but yeah, staying remote after the vax was available is wrong too.
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  #8346  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Catholic schools had plummeting enrollment during the pandemic, and much worse than public schools. So parents generally didn't share your perspective.

My sister has all her kids in a Catholic elementary, and there were most certainly "big issues" with remote learning. It was a mess.
Not in Chicago. Catholic schools have seen enrollment increase during the pandemic. And there were no issues with Covid outbreaks. I wasn't talking about remote learning, I was talking about being IN the building. Which is why some parents have pulled out of public schools, their kids were stuck with shitty online school.
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  #8347  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Not in Chicago. Catholic schools have seen enrollment increase during the pandemic. And there were no issues with Covid outbreaks. I wasn't talking about remote learning, I was talking about being IN the building. Which is why some parents have pulled out of public schools, their kids were stuck with shitty online school.
OK, but isn't the national perspective. Nationally, Catholic schools had plummeting enrollment during the pandemic. In fact, the drop in Catholic school enrollment was the largest single year decline in the last 50 years:

https://www.catholicnews.com/catholi...t-in-50-years/

This suggests that Catholic schools, from a national perspective, were generally not perceived viable alternatives to public schools. Which makes sense, bc Catholic schools were remote too, and not as well resourced as public schools, and parents may have felt pressure re. tuition given the economic uncertainty.
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  #8348  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 4:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
OK, but isn't the national perspective. Nationally, Catholic schools had plummeting enrollment during the pandemic. In fact, the drop in Catholic school enrollment was the largest single year decline in the last 50 years:

https://www.catholicnews.com/catholi...t-in-50-years/

This suggests that Catholic schools, from a national perspective, were generally not perceived viable alternatives to public schools. Which makes sense, bc Catholic schools were remote too, and not as well resourced as public schools, and parents may have felt pressure re. tuition given the economic uncertainty.
Ok, I was not talking nationally but my experience where my family lives and my kids go to school.
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  #8349  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 4:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
we tried, but the 2 catholic schools near us didn't have any kindergarten slots open. once CPS announced it was gonna remain 100% remote for the start of the 20/21 school year, the catholic schools around us ran out of room pronto. we didn't act fast enough.
Oh my, and out here there were Catholic schools that opened (the building ) back in January or even earlier. I don't know if people from other denominations can join, and there is a cost to private schools, so lower income people are at a disadvantage.
Quote:
working parents need a place for their kids to go everyday so that they can get their shit done.
Whether school was indented to be just for learning or not, functionally, it's still a place to keep the kids at. There hasn't been an extended period of time when kids have been out of school before, besides natural disasters limited to specific areas. COVID brought out the problem of childcare during a pandemic/emergency/lockdown/ect.

Quote:
the union started playing their usual stupid political games with the crisis, to the detriment of everyone involved except themselves.
So there's no option to go and yell at them at local school board meetings?
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  #8350  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 4:14 PM
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Oh my, and out here there were Catholic schools that opened (the building ) back in January or even earlier.
chicago's catholic schools were 100% in-person right from the start of the 20/21 school year in august!

playing monday morning quarterback with some neighbors after the fact, some parents started signing their kids up for the catholic schools as soon as the 19/20 school year ended as a "just in case" for the fall.

and then when CPS announced they would remain 100% remote indefinitely prior to the start of 20/21, all those parents who had reserved "just in case" slots at the catholic schools were like "YES!".



Quote:
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Whether school was indented to be just for learning or not, functionally, it's still a place to keep the kids at.
but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but........ IT'S NOT IN THEIR JOB DESCRPITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




apparently, some people willfully deny our society's reality and would rather live in pendantry-land.




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So there's no option to go and yell at them at local school board meetings?
oh, there were probably virtual school board meetings online at the time, but yelling at people through a lap top loses some of its punch (by design).
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Oct 29, 2021 at 4:31 PM.
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  #8351  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
chicago's catholic schools were 100% in-person right from the start of the 20/21 school year in august!

playing monday morning quarterback with some neighbors after the fact, some parents started signing their kids up for the catholic schools as soon as the 19/20 school year ended as a "just in case" for the fall.

and then when CPS announced they would remain 100% remote indefinitely prior to the start of 20/21, all those parents who had reserved "just in case" slots at the catholic schools were like "YES!".




but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but........ IT'S NOT IN THEIR JOB DESCRPITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




apparently, some people willfully deny our society's reality and would rather live in pendantry-land.






oh, there were probably virtual school board meetings online at the time, but yelling at people through a lap top loses some of its punch (by design).
CPS recently announced its 2021 enrollment. It was a big decline from 2020 with over 3000 students moving to city private schools.
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  #8352  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TWAK View Post

Whether school was indented to be just for learning or not, functionally, it's still a place to keep the kids at. There hasn't been an extended period of time when kids have been out of school before, besides natural disasters limited to specific areas. COVID brought out the problem of childcare during a pandemic/emergency/lockdown/ect.
nope, don't get it twisted. or indented!

foundationally speaking, a school building is functionally a place for learning and incidently a place where kids are gathered.

but anyhoo yes indeed, covid certainly did bring out childcare issues, among it's host of other issues.
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  #8353  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 4:54 PM
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nope, don't get it twisted. or indented!
Yeah that would qualify for a "gotcha", and no editing can fix it now

Quote:
foundationally speaking, a school building is functionally a place for learning and incidently a place where kids are gathered.

but anyhoo yes indeed, covid certainly did bring out childcare issues, among it's host of other issues.
After COVID is over there should be a large package of changes put forth by city, state, and federal government. I don't see everybody agreeing on what is to be done so a commission with suggestions is my pick.
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  #8354  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 5:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
nope, don't get it twisted. or indented!

foundationally speaking, a school building is functionally a place for learning and incidently a place where kids are gathered.

but anyhoo yes indeed, covid certainly did bring out childcare issues, among it's host of other issues.
"School" is more than just the reading, writing and arithmetic. It's also about the structure, socialization and cohesive setting for 8 hours a day of which the physical building is fundamental component. I spent the tail end of my MBA online (Covid) and it did not compare to F2F. Learning is hands on and interactive.
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  #8355  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 6:28 PM
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"School" is more than just the reading, writing and arithmetic. It's also about the structure, socialization and cohesive setting for 8 hours a day of which the physical building is fundamental component. I spent the tail end of my MBA online (Covid) and it did not compare to F2F. Learning is hands on and interactive.
To me it seems implausible that online education is a real thing for say a 7 year old kid with a working single mother. I could see it working for some older kids who are self-directed or some younger kids with parents who basically operate as teachers, though even in those cases the socialization aspect is lacking. The university students I know complained the online stuff was bad for them.

My impression is depression and obesity in children are both up significantly during the pandemic period. That combined with losses to education may pay "dividends" for a long time.
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  #8356  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 6:40 PM
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My kids and their friends (late teens) joke all the time that they're going to be the "lost generation".

Though I think that the lasting effects of this will be greater on elementary school-age kids than on teens.
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  #8357  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 6:48 PM
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To me it seems implausible that online education is a real thing for say a 7 year old kid with a working single mother. I could see it working for some older kids who are self-directed or some younger kids with parents who basically operate as teachers, though even in those cases the socialization aspect is lacking.
my daughter basically lost her entire year of kindergarten.

yeah, for the last 3 months she was finally going 2 days/week in-person, so better than nothing i guess, but still 80% of it was staring into a lap top screen from her bedroom, which was largely a waste of time.

and kindergarten is EXPLICITLY all about learning how to behave in a classroom, the socialization stuff, not the ABC's and 123's.

how to sit down and be quiet, how to line up, how to take turns, how to get along with classmates without biting or kicking them, all of that super-important stuff for little kids to learn that is just nowhere "remotely" close to being the same with remote learning.

long term, i think (hope?) she'll be fine, but it still sucks that she kinda got robbed of having a kindergarten experience.

stupid fucking covid.
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Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 6:58 PM
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stupid fucking covid.
Is this really an unavoidable consequence of covid? A lot of European countries kept schools open. Here in BC I think they have been mostly open too even though we have a fair amount of spread. There wasn't much discernible difference in outcomes here whether schools were open or closed either, and these days all teachers and staff can be vaccinated. The media here for a while were making a big deal out of school outbreaks without much clarity on whether the spread was actually happening in the schools. And of course the kids themselves are at minimal risk. This is even more obvious if it's true that a large percentage of those kids are seropositive; where are all the long covid kids if 50% of them got covid in parts of the US?

Lots of private schools open too.

To me it seems like the teachers' unions are pushing this and they are using pretzel-like logic if you take a step back. 2 years ago they were up in arms about whether it's 30 or 25 kids in a classroom. A few months later and they demanded no classroom at all.

I understand the closure during the period of uncertainty in the early pandemic. I don't think the later closures will look very good in retrospect.
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  #8359  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 7:01 PM
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Is this really an unavoidable consequence of covid?
i don't know.

they only thing i do know is that none of it would have happened if stupid fucking covid hadn't.

stupid fucking covid is the root of the last 18 months of bullshit.

so yeah, STUPID FUCKING COVID!
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  #8360  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2021, 7:40 PM
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The e-days were only a few hours instead of a full day, so my little relatives had a great time with that. Not that they listened to me after zoom school was over. I fell for every excuse "mom said..".
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