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  #1  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 3:42 AM
Manitopiaaa Manitopiaaa is offline
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Alexandria, Virginia, makes municipal bus system fare free - The start of a trend?

My city - Alexandria, VA - just voted to make bus fares a thing of the past for the city's DASH system. They also voted to approve a new network system that will vastly increase frequencies in TOD and low-income, high-density corridors.



The new maps with planned 2022/2030 service are here: https://www.alexandriava.gov/tes/default.aspx?id=104193

Current route map (DASH routes start with 'AT' and would be free starting 9/5): https://www.alexandriava.gov/uploade...g_Peak_ATV.png

Is this the start of a trend? Have any other sizable cities done this? Alexandria, VA, isn't a small town by any means. It would be the largest city in 10 states with 159,428 people.

NEWS ARTICLE: https://wtop.com/alexandria/2021/05/...sh-buses-free/

The Northern Virginia city will overhaul its 37-year-old bus system to focus on increased access. Fares on the DASH buses will be free starting Sept. 5. Buses, which have seen low ridership since the pandemic, will run more frequently in the midday, evenings and weekends under a planned overhaul of the system that will change some routes.

The DASH bus system changes will increase the percentages of the low-income and minority residents who are within walking distance to bus stations. For low-income residents, all-day bus access will increase from 29% to 73% and from 22% to 70% for minority residents. Access also will increase for senior citizens.
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  #2  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 8:08 AM
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San Francisco has been talking about this. I hope they don't do it. There are many downsides in a major city that may not apply in an upscale inner ring suburb like Alexandria. For one thing, busses will become more like dormitories for the homeless than they already are (they already are because fare evasion is rampant). It will also encourage all sorts of other riders who are problematic for the general public such as those seeking a captive audience for panhandling, pocket picking and much else. I've been on busses that became rolling drug sales events already (again: fare evasion).

Finally, it's just yet another form of wealth transfer: Tax the non-riders to provide free service to the riders. The reason to do it, they claim, is to bring ridership back after COVID. I don't see that the city government should feel the need to encourage ridership or discourage it. It's their job to provide the service for those citizens who want to use it, not sell it like it was a commercial product and they were the company management. And while fares do not fully pay for that service and likely never will, they partly pay for it and not charging them just means either the service will decline in quality or other income sources will have to be found (back to the wealth transfer).
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  #3  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 2:06 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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Coral Gables has had free city busses/trolley busses for 10+ years. Miami and Miami Beach have tried on a limited basis as well. Miami-Dade's Metromover has been free for almost 20 years as well.
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  #4  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 4:43 PM
woodrow woodrow is offline
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Kansas City did this in December 2019. Biggest city to date to do so. I know others are looking at the possibility, but had no idea a system as big as SF was considering it.
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  #5  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 7:27 PM
lio45 lio45 is online now
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My hometown, a university town of 200,000+, has made public transit free for university students some ~15 years ago, and so far, AFAIK, there's been no downside.
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  #6  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 7:37 PM
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I think this is dumb, mostly for reasons already mentioned. They'll become mobile homeless wards (see free Metromover in Miami), the system will be starved of funds, it won't do much to improve ridership (are most people really unable to pay $2?) and will further stigmatize transit as a charity service for poors.

The U.S. needs to stop conceptualizing transit (especially bus transit) as a redistributive or social justice initiative. It should be an essential piece of national mobility for average Americans, as in most other first world nations. If anything, they need to raise fares, which tend to be very low relative to other nations.
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  #7  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 7:55 PM
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On the other hand, sometimes people need to get to work but don't have any money.
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  #8  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 8:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I think this is dumb, mostly for reasons already mentioned. They'll become mobile homeless wards (see free Metromover in Miami), the system will be starved of funds, it won't do much to improve ridership (are most people really unable to pay $2?) and will further stigmatize transit as a charity service for poors.

The U.S. needs to stop conceptualizing transit (especially bus transit) as a redistributive or social justice initiative. It should be an essential piece of national mobility for average Americans, as in most other first world nations. If anything, they need to raise fares, which tend to be very low relative to other nations.
I think you're a little out of touch. 2 bucks twice a day/ 5 days a week is $80 a month...which to you or I might not seem like much but is to someone making minimum wage living from paycheck to paycheck. I don't think they should let anyone on unchecked for free but hand out passes to weed out the bums looking for a mobile toilet.
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  #9  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by woodrow View Post
Kansas City did this in December 2019. Biggest city to date to do so. I know others are looking at the possibility, but had no idea a system as big as SF was considering it.
Quote:
Op-Ed: Free Muni Would Cost Riders
By Jon Bate
Apr 6, 2021

The following submission is a response to D-5 Supervisor Dean Preston’s editorial in the San Francisco Examiner recommending that Muni launch a fare-free pilot as the city eases out of the pandemic.

Supervisor Preston’s proposal for a fare-free Muni is a well-meaning attempt to support low-income workers as we recover from the pandemic. Sadly, it’s a proposal that would ultimately result in the decimation of our transit service, causing serious hardship to those who need it the most.

Preston cites Kansas City and Fresno as examples of cities that have made transit free, and questions why this would not be possible here. But cities with few transit riders can afford to abandon fare collection.

Kansas City forgoes $8 million in fare revenue annually and Fresno forgoes $6.5 million. By contrast, San Francisco collected over $200 million in fare revenue annually before the pandemic. Losing this revenue would cut SFMTA’s budget by 20 percent, which broadly speaking means 20 percent fewer buses and trains on the streets compared to before the pandemic.

Nevertheless, Preston claims that free transit would increase ridership, citing a study that looks at the impact of removing fares on small transit systems with plenty of empty buses to carry new riders. That is not Muni, which had little spare capacity before the pandemic and has even less now. The overcrowding we experienced pre-pandemic, exacerbated by COVID-era service cuts and social distancing requirements, would turn away those potential new riders who were enticed by free transit, as wait times increase and crowded buses pass them by.

In fact, this same study notes that no large transit system in the US has free transit, as none has found a way to replace the lost fare revenue; and that “if service quality decreases, gains in ridership will be offset by a defection of passengers with other mobility options.”

The Newsom-era study on Free Muni that Preston mentions also backs this up, concluding that “fare elimination alone may actually make public transit a less viable alternative to other modes of travel.” And the Washington DC study he cites as evidence that high fares are deterring late-night riders actually concludes that the problem is lack of service, a conclusion mirrored by San Francisco’s own studies on late-night transit.

As the city races towards full vaccination and workers start to return to offices, we need as much transit capacity as possible to get people to work on time. If Muni service is poor, riders will abandon Muni for rideshare.

To bring more riders onboard Muni we must be able to accommodate them, and that means running more service, not less. A survey conducted by the SFMTA in 2018 found that the top two improvements San Franciscans wanted to see were more frequent service and better on-time performance, and San Franciscans who do not ride Muni cited trips taking too long and being too complicated as their biggest barriers to using transit. Free or reduced fares did not make the top ten for either group . . . .

Supervisor Preston says this isn’t about the money, but it is. For his proposal to be taken seriously he must identify a dedicated funding source to offset the service impacts of Free Muni, one which does not place additional burden on the poorest in our city. Otherwise, a Free Muni would be a slower, more crowded, less reliable, and less equitable Muni.
https://sf.streetsblog.org/2021/04/0...d-cost-riders/
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  #10  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I think you're a little out of touch. 2 bucks twice a day/ 5 days a week is $80 a month...which to you or I might not seem like much but is to someone making minimum wage living from paycheck to paycheck. I don't think they should let anyone on unchecked for free but hand out passes to weed out the bums looking for a mobile toilet.
In SF, employers are encouraged to give transit passes to employees. This seems a better solution to me than a free system. It costs employers, not the general public and it does not reduce system revenue.

There's no free lunch or transit, however. For employers, this would be just an increase in labor costs which they would be tempted to take out of other costs like take-home pay or other benefits. But I suspect they would absorb some of it.
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  #11  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 8:25 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
My hometown, a university town of 200,000+, has made public transit free for university students some ~15 years ago, and so far, AFAIK, there's been no downside.
Student discounts or passes, senior discounts or passes, disabled discounts or passes are pretty common. Again, SF has them. But it all reduces revenue.

IMHO the university ought to pay the transit system to provide its students free rides if it values that service (it might recoup the money by raising tuition just as the transit system probably recoups by raising fares for the non-subsidized).
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  #12  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by biguc View Post
On the other hand, sometimes people need to get to work but don't have any money.
I really need a Bentley convertible but I don't have enough money either.
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  #13  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
In SF, employers are encouraged to give transit passes to employees. This seems a better solution to me than a free system. It costs employers, not the general public and it does not reduce system revenue.

There's no free lunch or transit, however. For employers, this would be just an increase in labor costs which they would be tempted to take out of other costs like take-home pay or other benefits. But I suspect they would absorb some of it.
For someone with a decent job, yeah that might be a perk (my last job offered that) but I doubt Walmart or many other minimum wage jobs will be handing out passes to their employees.
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Old Posted May 7, 2021, 8:42 PM
woodrow woodrow is offline
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
I really need a Bentley convertible but I don't have enough money either.
Wow! That is the most 10023 thing you have ever written!

I mostly agree with your point, but is seem uncharacteristically callous of you to write "I really need a Bentley...," even as a joke response. There are literally millions of low paid individuals that truly DO need a way to get to work but don't have a lot of money.
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  #15  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by woodrow View Post
Wow! That is the most 10023 thing you have ever written!

I mostly agree with your point, but is seem uncharacteristically callous of you to write "I really need a Bentley...," even as a joke response. There are literally millions of low paid individuals that truly DO need a way to get to work but don't have a lot of money.
I think the argument that we should ever give people things because they want or claim to need them with no other justification is ludicrous and I treated it as such. Unlike 10023, I drive a 17 year old car and am perfectly satisfied with it (but I'd love to drive a Bentley just once--there's actually a dealer just up the street. Maybe I should take one for a spin).
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Old Posted May 7, 2021, 8:53 PM
isaidso isaidso is online now
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Good to see. The C-Train in Calgary is free in the downtown. You just hop on or off as you please. I believe there's an entire transit system in an eastern European capital that's free. I can't remember which one though. Mobility is key to an efficiently running city so free PT is something municipalities should consider looking at.
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Old Posted May 7, 2021, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Good to see. The C-Train in Calgary is free in the downtown. You just hop on or off as you please. I believe there's an entire transit system in an eastern European capital that's free. I can't remember which one though. Mobility is key to an efficiently running city so free PT is something municipalities should consider looking at.
I suspect "Eastern European capitals" have other ways to control abuse of transit by those using it for purposes other than getting from one place to another.

On the other hand, free local shuttle-type services limited to downtown or whatever are not rare I don't believe. That's very different from an entire free system.
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Old Posted May 7, 2021, 9:07 PM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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Free fare system can work in place where there few riders and thus fares represent a low part of the budget.
It's a bad idea in place where there are already lot of passengers, there, fares represent a lot of money. In example in Paris making transit free means losing several billion euro every years.
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Old Posted May 7, 2021, 9:26 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is online now
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The real problem with free transit is that it becomes really easy for politicians to starve the transit budget. Transit systems would need to generate revenue from a source that is reliable and the policy has to be hard to modify, similar to the gas tax for roads.
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  #20  
Old Posted May 7, 2021, 9:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
I really need a Bentley convertible but I don't have enough money either.
Crazy how you'd think people with no money needing work is anything like that. Not really surprising, though, from your out of touch ass.

Typical bougie San Francisco person: wants to piss and moan about homeless people but doesn't actually want to do anything about it.
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