Real Estate in your city

[PHX31]

That A-frame MCM is incredible. I wouldn't touch a thing except re-carpet and maybe change out the fan by the kitchen.

I would probably be concerned about the overall state of the structure/roof as far as leaks go, but the only real problem is probably having to hire a window washer.

I've grown to love MCM houses through the years after initially not. My current house is a 1970s slump block ranch which I wish had a bit more MCM touches. for example I have a sunken living room via 1 step - I wish it was 3. I'd love a bit more of the angular and open windows. And I would love some of those little outdoor spaces on the inside (I can't think of the name right now).

[lio45]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Did I say the most expensive houses? Those are usually contemporary monstrosities.

MCM is extremely popular and gets a premium. This is a fact. Btw, in a realtor in LA and have been for 15 years. You?

I'm sure you're correct and it's pretty evident - even without being a realtor - that well-done MCM that stands out architecturally would "command a premium". In fact, ANY outstanding and tasteful example of a given era's particular architecture "commands a premium", all else being equal.

Now, Crawford and you are kind of talking past each other because he's correct in pointing out that newer luxury monstrosities (much larger and with all the newer goodies) sell for more than smaller, less-adapted-to-what-multimillionaires-demand-in-2022 MCM houses. Which is also obvious, and does not contradict that the latter "sells at a premium" (for what it is and for its square footage) due to being architecturally and visually interesting.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

if the lens you look at real estate through is that of an investor, then the above is true for any property anywhere.

No, there are two general types of real estate investment:

1) choose an area that you think is "the next Brooklyn", buy as much as you can there, cash flow from rents is irrelevant (you can even leave stuff empty if you want less trouble), and the "exit strategy" is for it to be worth much more than you paid for, someday. Basically bitcoin, just more tangible (and optionally, it can also serve a secondary purpose as roof-over-one's-head for some tenant).

(We've been so "spoiled" lately, especially in Canadian cities, that we've come to regard the above as the main/normal way.)

2) choose an area where there's no speculation and cap rates are good, buy there, and get decent ROI from the cash flow of the business of actually landlording (which is optional in Way #1). If values go up, that's a bonus; it's not needed to make financial sense.

The direct equivalent to both of those exists in stocks: there are stocks where the only end game is obviously to resell for more (companies that earn no money and/or sell at a completely comical multiple of their annual earnings and don't give you any dividend), but there are also stocks of good old school companies that actually do something productive and generate money and pay a reliable dividend every year to their shareholders.

I tried the "good cap rate, speculation is secondary" route in Amarillo, TX which I used to visit once in a while for business; I had a duplex there from 2015 to 2020. (Sold it for not much more than what I paid + inflation, in order to free $ to buy one more FL property that has since tripled.)

That duplex generated about 15% net on its purchase price, every year, for the five years I've had it.

You absolutely did not need to count on selling it to a Billionaire Chinese Money Launderer in order for it to be a sound-ish investment.

That said, I'm curious to look at values for similar properties nowadays. I'm pretty sure they're still low. I don't regret getting rid of it, but I'm expecting that some day, Way #2 of doing real estate will become the only way (values can't keep outpacing all other metrics indefinitely; it's a physical impossibility) and I'm ready for that.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Mmm, I think this Mayan-revival Lloyd Wright-designed house in Glendale built in 1926 is delicious...

The Derby House. On the National Register of Historic Places.

That bathroom is so well done I can't tell if it's original or not. Wow

Love it, but for Southern California (and Florida too), my ideal house is from ~1955.

1920s style would be perfect in Chicago (or Detroit).

[lio45]

I'd love to justify owning a pre-Civil War building. I've always had "own some pre-Confederation real estate" (for Canada) on my bucket list, and I've checked that already (in the Quebec City area, it's quite attainable), now on to the next step

Say, something like this:

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...7_M72662-02371

This one is a much more financially justifiable investment though (functions as an Airbnb):

https://circaoldhouses.com/property/...ms-league-inn/



(Edit - to tie this to my other post above, operating that building as an Airbnb that brings an acceptable ROI year after year is a perfect example of Way #2 of doing real estate investing; I wouldn't have to count on some sucker buying it off me for much more than what I paid + inflation.)

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by lio45

I'm sure you're correct and it's pretty evident - even without being a realtor - that well-done MCM that stands out architecturally would "command a premium". In fact, ANY outstanding and tasteful example of a given era's particular architecture "commands a premium", all else being equal.

Now, Crawford and you are kind of talking past each other because he's correct in pointing out that newer luxury monstrosities (much larger and with all the newer goodies) sell for more than smaller, less-adapted-to-what-multimillionaires-demand-in-2022 MCM houses. Which is also obvious, and does not contradict that the latter "sells at a premium" (for what it is and for its square footage) due to being architecturally and visually interesting.

That MCM house is actually located just outside of Beverly Hills proper. It's a part of LA city although it has a Beverly Hills zip code and mailing address. If it was fully renovated/modernized and located a mile to the south or west it might go for eight figures.

I wouldn't draw any conclusions about the desirability of MCM based on that listing alone. For a fair comparison with one of those contemporary glass houses, you would need to price an MCM built to a similarly high standard in a similarly desirable neighborhood, on a ridge or promontory lot with million dollar views, instead of down in the canyon. Like this John Lautner masterpiece for example:


https://www.archdaily.com/782344/joh...a-by-its-owner

[Crawford]

That looks perfect for a Boogie Nights sequel. Porn and blow. Pretty cool, though.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by badrunner

I wouldn't draw any conclusions about the desirability of MCM based on that listing alone.

LosAngelesSportsFan has been a realtor for a while and I see no reason to doubt him, but actually, I only drew a very general (and unarguable) conclusion from all my years of experience in real estate: prime examples of ANY architectural style always "go for a premium", everything else being equal (i.e. compared to an equivalent property that isn't architecturally/stylistically outstanding). I'm absolutely sure MCM is no exception to that basic rule.

You're right, though: I found it cheap for what it is (I assumed it was in Beverly Hills...)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Crawford

That looks perfect for a Boogie Nights sequel. Porn and blow. Pretty cool, though.

Wait a minute... I just watched "The Big Lebowski" not long ago and I could swear this is the pool where he meets the porn guy!

[lio45]

Ha! Looked it up and I was right!!!

https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*T...R88iNxRUtQ.png

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by PHX31

I've grown to love MCM huses through the years after initially not. My current house is a 1970s slump block ranch which I wish had a bit more MCM touches. for example I have a sunken living room via 1 step - I wish it was 3. I'd love a bit more of the angular and open windows. And I would love some of those little outdoor spaces on the inside (I can't think of the name right now).

My grandparents built what is now called a MCM two-bedroom ranch in 1954 for $12,000. They were able to build the house because they by chance won the $1,000 grand prize in a church raffle for a church they didn't attend.

We always called it a "1960s house" since the term "midcentury" didn't really exist, and we assumed that it had been built in the 60s because that's when color TV started and we all saw those design motifs on the earliest color TV shows.

My grandmother outfitted it with an East Asian/Hawaiian/French Polynesian motif. The decorations were ridiculous - tikki heads, lava rocks, Japanese vases, a Japanese screen, a pair of Chinese dragons, etc., etc.
The furniture was all of that crazy stuff from that era - outlandish light fixtures, chairs with whimsical fabric patterns, etc. There were all sorts of tropical plants in preposterous planters.

When they moved out in the late 80s they weren't able to get any money for any of that stuff. It was all considered junk. A few pieces of furniture made the move and I own two of their lamps that are pretty damn cool. They're probably really valuable now, but they're not for sale.

[PHX31]

/\ Preposterous can be a good word for a lot of it, but it is definitely cool.

When I was buying a house back in Phoenix back in 2006, I was dead set on being close to the future light rail near midtown Phoenix and I really wanted a pre-war "historic" house. That's what I bought, lived in for years, and currently have as a rental house. Lately I have regrets that I wasn't more into MCM houses and purchased something in north-central or northeast Phoenix instead. Those values have exploded in comparison.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by PHX31

/\ Preposterous can be a good word for a lot of it, but it is definitely cool.

When I was buying a house back in Phoenix back in 2006, I was dead set on being close to the future light rail near midtown Phoenix and I really wanted a pre-war "historic" house. That's what I bought, lived in for years, and currently have as a rental house. Lately I have regrets that I wasn't more into MCM houses and purchased something in north-central or northeast Phoenix instead. Those values have exploded in comparison.

I know a guy who rented a small rental house from his dad in the 1990s that is now called the "craftsman" style. We never heard that word when he lived there. It was built around 1920 and was basically unmodified from its original construction, so it still had pocket doors, tile fireplace, and all of the original features.

FFWD to 2002 or so and it was considered junk and was flattened for a parking lot. It would be worth millions in Seattle, Vancouver, etc.

It makes you wonder if the stuff from the 80s and 90s that nobody cares about now will one day be held in high esteem. Pretty much the entirety of Hilton Head, SC was built 1980-1985, and I'd bet that that place is going to become a retro architecture destination at some point.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

FFWD to 2002 or so and it was considered junk and was flattened for a parking lot. It would be worth millions in Seattle, Vancouver, etc.

Correction: the land would be worth millions (whether a weedy vacant lot, or surface parking, or with a teardown Craftsman bungalow still on it). The house would still get flattened/have negative value.

[lio45]

1730s house that belonged to the Governor of NH at the time of the Revolutionary War; George Washington has been in it.

Cheaper than a Vancouver bungalow

https://circaoldhouses.com/property/...h-weare-house/

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

It makes you wonder if the stuff from the 80s and 90s that nobody cares about now will one day be held in high esteem. Pretty much the entirety of Hilton Head, SC was built 1980-1985, and I'd bet that that place is going to become a retro architecture destination at some point.

Absolutely it will, except it is going to depend on what it started out as.

The uber-common and cheap stuff (stick build w/ stucco on chicken wire in PHX, or whatever cheap style is common in other parts of the country) that was thrown up everywhere, probably not so much since it won't last very well. But the slightly better semi-custom to custom homes and styles likely will become seen with newly rosy eyes, and become retro/vintage-desirable. Locally that means slump block, regular block, even 80s brick houses (those with the large proportions - hard to explain since I'm not an architect).

I'm already seeing the interest progress from pre-war (all types), to MCM, to 60s ranches, it's now on to 70s ranches ("disco-chic"?) and the 80s stuff is about to get it's turn.

[bnk]

Originally Posted by lio45

1730s house that belonged to the Governor of NH at the time of the Revolutionary War; George Washington has been in it.

Cheaper than a Vancouver bungalow

https://circaoldhouses.com/property/...h-weare-house/

Thats a good deal. Nice property. Well remodeled. Lot's of out buildings and a pool. Wonder why is so cheap? 1.4M
Location likely. If I could plop that down in my area I would buy it.


Just listed! The Governor Meshech Weare House-Listed on the National Register of Historic Places – a very rare opportunity to own a piece of New Hampshire and Revolutionary War history in this beautifully maintained nine room, four bedroom, four bathroom circa 1738 home sited on three lushly landscaped acres perfectly located opposite the Hampton Falls Common, the Lincoln Akerman Elementary/Middle School, the US Post office and the corner, general store. During the War for Independence, George Washington visited this house in 1775 as well as James Monroe in 1817 and Lafayette in 1824. Imagine the history and the conversations had within the walls of this stunning estate. Interior detailing in many of the rooms including the dining, primary suite, grand foyer and family room have been left largely untouched. Rich paneled walls of the formal living room reveal a secret bar behind the paneled walls. Five fireplaces including the wood burning fireplace in the pool house. Updates include a new gunite pool, new custom kitchen with granite/leathered granite counters and new appliances including a gas, Aga stove. 2021 sunroom remodel with new windows, original bluestone floors, beamed ceilings, gas fireplace and air conditioning opens up to the paver patio and hot tub area that overlooks the pool and pool house. Updated systems, roof, wiring and new windows throughout. Detached barn with room for four cars and loft storage.840sf 2BR guest apt

[lio45]

It's cheap because houses like that have a bunch of flaws compared to modern ones and also, the ones that survived are not that conveniently located (they're usually in the country). Simple laws of demand.

But yeah, IMO, it's good value and I am also tempted by the idea of owning a piece of pre-Revolutionary War history. I could spend my weekends over there, it's not that far from my hometown. I'd pretend I'm bumping into George Washington in the hallways

[lio45]

Originally Posted by bnk

Wonder why is so cheap? 1.4M
Location likely. If I could plop that down in my area I would buy it.

Location isn't bad; it's one mile from the ocean, and not that far from Boston.

Actually the more I think about it, the more I find it to be really well located for a nearly 300-year-old house. (I found another ~1750 mansion in Virginia, but that one is much more in the middle of nowhere, as you'd expect.)

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I really like the MCM look, but, for whatever reason, if you look at top SFH sales from coast to coast, it's usually giant, tacky pseudo-historic looking mansions.

And I've noticed that, all things equal, MCM listings tend to linger a bit longer than non-MCM. It's a (very cool) niche.

I think the problem with MCM is that in addition to the house, you tend to have to have a thing for MCM in general which means furniture, art and theme. A modern sofa set or trendy bathroom fixtures won't vibe with the style of the house.