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  #15501  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2021, 6:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
Can someone explain how this bill isn't still massively underfunded? $39B investment for Chicago alone would get wheel chair accessibility and like two new CTA stations on existing lines... let alone that amount for the ENTIRE country. Seems like this is a drop in the bucket for what's actually needed to get our transit systems even into the 1990s.
it is.

that said, the city will also probably get money to actually complete lead pipe removal, so i guess they get out of jail on that one. also i get it needs to be done, but street paving dosent matter when everything is going to be perpetually torn up anyway to complete all these sewer/peoples gas/fiber optic/water main replacement projects. just gonna be never ending for the rest of our lifetimes.
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  #15502  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2021, 1:39 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Transit ridership is in the gutter right now thanks to our response to Covid.

Private transportation is the future, so the only money going to transit right now should be to repair what is in bad shape.

I think we need to spend more money on fixing all of Chicago’s potholed streets as well as more bike lanes.
Transit use throughout the world is in the gutter right now due to COVID. It's not just a Chicago issue.

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  #15503  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2021, 3:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Transit ridership is in the gutter right now thanks to our response to Covid.

Private transportation is the future, so the only money going to transit right now should be to repair what is in bad shape.

I think we need to spend more money on fixing all of Chicago’s potholed streets as well as more bike lanes.
Your comment is basically a lie, considering, as glowrock also states, ALL public transit ridership in major cities is facing severe problems thanks to Covid, and not just Chicago. For whatever reason, you are unable to accept that reality.
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  #15504  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2021, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Transit ridership is in the gutter right now thanks to our response to Covid.

Private transportation is the future, so the only money going to transit right now should be to repair what is in bad shape.

I think we need to spend more money on fixing all of Chicago’s potholed streets as well as more bike lanes.
We cannot look at things strictly based on Covid. There is also climate change and the quality of life in our cities.

Private Transportation is not the answer to making our lives better. The last 70 years has proven that it has been a false utopia.

It is true that transit ridership is down, but this is also an opportunity to re-imagine transit to make it more attractive to more people. The Covid crisis is gradually ending, so we need to look at transit with a post-covid vision.
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  #15505  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 1:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Transit ridership is in the gutter right now thanks to our response to Covid.

Private transportation is the future, so the only money going to transit right now should be to repair what is in bad shape.

I think we need to spend more money on fixing all of Chicago’s potholed streets as well as more bike lanes.
real suburban take
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  #15506  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 3:14 PM
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Suburban and anachronistic. I'm surprised it didn't come attached to a thumbnail of a PRT module.
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  #15507  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 5:26 PM
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$4 billion for transit won't even be enough for RPM phase 2, let alone the other capital projects needed for CTA and Metra. I could see Metra applying for the $66 billion intercity rail grants to fund the A-2 flyover. Even then, the actual Fulton Market station will still cost $500 million.
What RPM Phase 2? LOL. CTA hasn't even started any detailed planning for such a project. It should have begun as soon as construction on Phase I began, so that they can roll right into Phase II with the same contractors and project mobilization. Unfortunately our region never does serious project planning until they can get their hands on Other People's Money.

No, CTA will use this to extend the Red Line south and rebuild the Blue Line Congress Branch in conjunction with IDOT's Eisenhower expansion. Maybe we'll get a few accessibility/station rebuilds out of it too.

I also expect this to fund the North LSD project, so we might get some major civic improvements (added/renovated parkland, improved lakefront access, bus lanes) out of that project. Despite being auto-focused it is really the only project in Chicago right now with the "magic to stir men's blood".
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Last edited by ardecila; Nov 8, 2021 at 5:38 PM.
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  #15508  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 5:29 PM
Chisouthside Chisouthside is offline
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What is the issue with the red line expansion?
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  #15509  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 5:40 PM
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^ You're spending a lot of money to extend CTA into a part of the city that is already served by Metra Electric and Rock Island lines. You could upgrade all of those lines to provide trains every 10 minutes, for half the cost of the Red Line project. The only reason they don't do it is because Metra doesn't want to.
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  #15510  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 5:43 PM
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Not just that but it is taking a route that is counter-intuitive and capital intensive instead of a modest median running route ending with a terminal near large patch of land in which to build a new yard.
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  #15511  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 7:19 PM
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I wouldn't agree with that. CTA's project isn't great, but it's better than another expressway extension.

Expressway median stations are totally unable to serve as community anchors or generate walkable, transit-oriented communities. Look at all the existing Dan Ryan stations on the Red Line, is there a single one where you could get off and feel like you are in a community? Where the station can support local businesses? Etc etc. At least with the UP alignment that CTA chose, it gets close to the heart of Roseland and has the potential for TOD at each new station.

Now CTA just has to get out of its own way and stop building park-n-ride lots. Unfortunately the Federal approval process often forces transit projects of marginal value to add tons of parking, in an effort to guarantee ridership. I'm not sure if that's the case with Red Line extension, but it's possible that CTA has no choice in terms of the parking.
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  #15512  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 8:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
^ You're spending a lot of money to extend CTA into a part of the city that is already served by Metra Electric and Rock Island lines. You could upgrade all of those lines to provide trains every 10 minutes, for half the cost of the Red Line project. The only reason they don't do it is because Metra doesn't want to.
I'm gonna go ahead and post my pie-in-the-sky proposal again



The idea would be that the RL would be slightly extended by one stop to the ME (and possibly another stop to 103rd /Olive Harvey College / giant park and ride / a giant yard if it makes sense) and ME service would be greatly enhanced. A "Hammond" shuttle would serve Altgeld Gardens. Potentially the GL would be extended to the ME and the South Chicago line would be extended to the Eastside/Whiting but those are not essential.
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  #15513  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I wouldn't agree with that. CTA's project isn't great, but it's better than another expressway extension.

Expressway median stations are totally unable to serve as community anchors or generate walkable, transit-oriented communities. Look at all the existing Dan Ryan stations on the Red Line, is there a single one where you could get off and feel like you are in a community? Where the station can support local businesses? Etc etc. At least with the UP alignment that CTA chose, it gets close to the heart of Roseland and has the potential for TOD at each new station.

Now CTA just has to get out of its own way and stop building park-n-ride lots. Unfortunately the Federal approval process often forces transit projects of marginal value to add tons of parking, in an effort to guarantee ridership. I'm not sure if that's the case with Red Line extension, but it's possible that CTA has no choice in terms of the parking.
I agree with the general premise that that is not how you want to build a new rapid transit line. I disagree in the sense that this would be anything but a modest extension to what IS ALREADY AN EXPRESSWAY MEDIAN RAPID TRANSIT LINE. Earlier 20th century proposals sent the Dan Ryan branch down 94 and 57. That dogleg that they are currently planning is totally absurd when all they have to do is continue down the Bishop Ford to serve the same population at what I would imagine would be a lower cost. To reiterate, I recognize that building new lines in expressway medians is an old practice that we have learned from and few would recommend doing again, BUT this is just an extension and if done correctly can be much nicer than the open air salt sprayed stations on the Red and Blue. Even Amsterdam is still building expressway median station,s and they are awesome. No reason the Bishop Ford median couldn't accommodate more enclosed and hospitable stations at Cottage Grove with easy transfers to Metra and a terminal at 103/Stony Island with a much needed new yard. Any transit access for residents further west in Roseland should come in the form of dramatically improved ME infrastructure and frequencies, not a 2.5 Billion Cta extension on expensive aerials. I can see them getting down to Stony Island in the median with two new stations for half that.
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  #15514  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I wouldn't agree with that. CTA's project isn't great, but it's better than another expressway extension.

Expressway median stations are totally unable to serve as community anchors or generate walkable, transit-oriented communities. Look at all the existing Dan Ryan stations on the Red Line, is there a single one where you could get off and feel like you are in a community? Where the station can support local businesses? Etc etc. At least with the UP alignment that CTA chose, it gets close to the heart of Roseland and has the potential for TOD at each new station.
It's been a while since I read anything about it, but isn't a major benefit of the Red Line extension that it also adds the possibility to add capacity on the entire Red Line? By sending more trains south you're also send more back to the north. And I thought I remembered reading that limiter of frequency was train yards, which the southern expansion would add.
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  #15515  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 10:18 PM
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^ Thats part of it. The yard south of 95th station is narrow and cramped and too small to hold the amount of trains necessary to improve service. With a little imagination and an agreement with IDOT you can easily imagine how that could be rectified there at the 57/94 junction, but thats neither here nor there. Lets hypothesize that if operational flexibility and capacity is a major driver behind the extension, then
IMO you could strongly argue that a modest extension down Bishop Ford to the large open land in the proximity of Stony Island/103rd/I-94 poses the perfect opportunity to construct a large yard with all the space you'd need for storage and layover requirements. It could even be designed in a way where soithbound trains could just run through and turn around on a loop and return north without reversing directions and taking time consuming steps like crew change and passenger clearing.
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  #15516  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 11:13 PM
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Has there been any timeline given on the opening of the Wells-Wentworth Connector?
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  #15517  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 11:25 PM
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Has there been any timeline given on the opening of the Wells-Wentworth Connector?
No updates that I know of. Construction is ongoing, they are pouring the retaining walls for the 2nd underpass near the Ping Tom Fieldhouse (goes under the CN Freeport Sub tracks).

I'm glad they're doing it right with proper grade separations even if it takes a little more time, some of the earlier plans called for grade crossings. Totally unacceptable near downtown, especially when the new street will be an important bus/bike corridor.
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  #15518  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2021, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum View Post
It's been a while since I read anything about it, but isn't a major benefit of the Red Line extension that it also adds the possibility to add capacity on the entire Red Line? By sending more trains south you're also send more back to the north. And I thought I remembered reading that limiter of frequency was train yards, which the southern expansion would add.
This is one of the arguments but the south end of the Red Line simply doesn't require that level of service based on ridership. Finding somewhere to short turn trains just south of downtown would take care of the part of the line that does need more service. They already do this on the Blue Line.
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  #15519  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2021, 2:45 PM
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I feel like the 3 planned stations running along the existing rail median in roseland do have the chance to transform the neighborhood.
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  #15520  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2021, 5:57 PM
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^Do you think it will be as stunning as the rush we've seen to develop around Green Line stations, and how those have revitalized the blocks around them?
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