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View Poll Results: Which city will reach 1 million first?
Winnipeg 89 76.72%
Québec 27 23.28%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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  #141  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2023, 3:45 AM
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I have always really liked The Peg. It has great bones and some really wonderful architecture and neighbourhoods and is a very cultured city.

Those attributes do not, however, erase some of the things that make it unappealing. From the frigid winters, deadly mosquitos, geographic isolation, and relatively low wages. It's social ills and very high crime rates are, for many, the nail in the coffin.

Still due to it's large immigration levels, mostly from the Philippines, it will hit one million well before Quebec.
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  #142  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2023, 11:23 AM
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Although I think QC has quite a nice urban fabric the city still confuses me. Despite large chunks of the city being quite dense, it still has a population density and transit ridership lower then Winnipeg. You’d think that the modal split would be a lot more sustainable in QC but the numbers don’t showcase that at all.

Also, in regards to infrastructure there’s no doubt in my mind that Winnipeg is a better bike city because of its flat geography and expansive greenway network.

In terms of Rapid Transit future plans, while Quebec’s tramway is more flashy, Winnipeg’s brt expansion is a better bang for your buck. I know BRT is frowned upon, but when you have the largest bus manufacturer in the continent based in your city, and the previous RT project was under budget (unlike any rail transportation project this century) then BRT starts to make sense for a city like Winnipeg even from an economical perspective.

I think the rollout of rapid transit in both cities will be a key determinant in who gets to a million first.
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  #143  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2023, 2:40 PM
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Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek View Post
Although I think QC has quite a nice urban fabric the city still confuses me. Despite large chunks of the city being quite dense, it still has a population density and transit ridership lower then Winnipeg. You’d think that the modal split would be a lot more sustainable in QC but the numbers don’t showcase that at all.
That is because of the enormous amounts of freeways (in a Canadian perspective) for a city its size. Winnipeg has the pseudo-freeway called the Perimeter.

My belle-mère lives in Ste. Foy and I have to take 3 freeways to get to my belle-soeur's place in Charlesbourg.
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  #144  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2023, 3:46 PM
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Quebec City certainly has an overdeveloped expressway network. But its transit ridership wasn't any lower than Winnipeg before the pandemic. RTC and STLévis had a combined ridership of 48.5 million, compared to 48.4 million for Winnipeg Transit.
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  #145  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2023, 7:19 PM
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Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek View Post
Although I think QC has quite a nice urban fabric the city still confuses me. Despite large chunks of the city being quite dense, it still has a population density and transit ridership lower then Winnipeg. You’d think that the modal split would be a lot more sustainable in QC but the numbers don’t showcase that at all.

Also, in regards to infrastructure there’s no doubt in my mind that Winnipeg is a better bike city because of its flat geography and expansive greenway network.

In terms of Rapid Transit future plans, while Quebec’s tramway is more flashy, Winnipeg’s brt expansion is a better bang for your buck. I know BRT is frowned upon, but when you have the largest bus manufacturer in the continent based in your city, and the previous RT project was under budget (unlike any rail transportation project this century) then BRT starts to make sense for a city like Winnipeg even from an economical perspective.

I think the rollout of rapid transit in both cities will be a key determinant in who gets to a million first.
I don't agree. I can understand why we might wait in Winnipeg to see how the work flow travel patterns unfold over the next few years. I definitely agree we need some rapid transit plan, but I don't think it needs to be as comprehensive as prior to the pandemic. Interestingly enough, I know of three corporations that downsized their imprint at P+M, created more public office spaces (cubicles, workstations as opposed to offices) and now they are having to expand again because more people are coming back to offices.

I love Winnipeg and hate it at the same time sometimes. There are many misperceptions about mosquitoes- even in bad years, you really don't feel them more than any other city in Canada due to the fogging programs. I could probably count on my hands and toes the number of times I've been bitten in the city. Cottage country is another issue, but many provincial parks have extensive dragonfly breeding programs. At my parents' cottage near Lake of the Woods, you can see them all flying around like little helicopters. I never am bitten when I'm out there. And I agree, Winnipeg can definitely be cold, but I was in Ottawa this past January and it was colder there than it was in Winnipeg- so this whole "OMG, it's so cold there" really doesn't fly. The only province that has a significantly different climate is Coastal BC and the Maritimes to a certain extent.

But with many of the other Winnipeg posters here- this city lacks vision and a strong plan to address growth and I absolutely agree that some of the perception issues of Winnipeg (crime, low wages) abound. I live in Osborne Village and it is a hidden gem of Winnipeg that you won't find in many other Canadian cities. Love QC but I definitely noted that it does not aspire to be a big player like Montreal and that's perfectly fine. QC does not need to become another Montreal.
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  #146  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 3:56 PM
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Summers in Winnipeg are actually slightly warmer on average than in Quebec City. I've heard people complain about the bugs in summer in Winnipeg. Not so much about the temperatures.
Quebec doesn't have mosquito fogging trucks as far as I know.

Winnipeg doesn't have event-closing smoke though.
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  #147  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jammon View Post
And I agree, Winnipeg can definitely be cold, but I was in Ottawa this past January and it was colder there than it was in Winnipeg- so this whole "OMG, it's so cold there" really doesn't fly. The only province that has a significantly different climate is Coastal BC and the Maritimes to a certain extent.
I agree climate discussions tend to lose their rationality on this forum. But your claim that Winnipeg was warmer than Ottawa this January got me a bit suspicious so I checked EC data, and the difference was actually quite substantial. Unless you were talking about some specific days. But overall I agree with your statements, maybe it was just not the ideal point in time for a comparison. Not sure about the mosquito situation though - I didn’t realize it was an alleged issue in Winnipeg.
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  #148  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2023, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek View Post
Although I think QC has quite a nice urban fabric the city still confuses me. Despite large chunks of the city being quite dense, it still has a population density and transit ridership lower then Winnipeg. You’d think that the modal split would be a lot more sustainable in QC but the numbers don’t showcase that at all.
The Quebec CMA is denser than the Winnipeg CMA, but the city of Winnipeg is denser than Quebec. But I really feel like this is only due to the arbitrary nature of the city boundaries--around 40 percent of Quebec City is basically rural. Like, this is part of Quebec "city."

Quebec has a much larger area of medium-high density throughout its core and beyond.

Still, who gets to a million first? Winnipeg, for sure.
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  #149  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2023, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I have always really liked The Peg. It has great bones and some really wonderful architecture and neighbourhoods and is a very cultured city.

Those attributes do not, however, erase some of the things that make it unappealing. From the frigid winters, deadly mosquitos, geographic isolation, and relatively low wages. It's social ills and very high crime rates are, for many, the nail in the coffin.

Still due to it's large immigration levels, mostly from the Philippines, it will hit one million well before Quebec.
I think I should put all your superlatives into Chat GPT and come up with an amazing tapestry of Winnipeg.
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  #150  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2023, 6:16 PM
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Winnipeg is incredibly cold but not so much so than Quebec City and The Peg gets less than half the snowfall QC gets. Winnipeg is also drier. Yes, mosquitos are terrible in Winnipeg and the fact they have to fog exemplifies that. The city is also highly isolated and you basically need to fly to get anywhere.

The above are things that Winnipeg cannot change. There are, however, things the city can do something about to make it more appealing. The most obvious is the city's crime and murder rate which gives the city a very bad reputation. Winnipeg is consistently Canada's murder capitol and has a lot of social ills that turn people off. Many people flee larger cities, in part, due to their perceived level of crime and social decay but moving to Winnipeg is like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

Whether fair or not, people's perception of a city matters a lot in terms of appealing to newcomers and keeping the people they already have. You see this play out with Edmonton and Calgary but due to Edmonton's much higher rate of crime and decay in the downtown core, Edmonton has a lousy reputation nationwide while Calgary has a good one.
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  #151  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2023, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Winnipeg is incredibly cold but not so much so than Quebec City and The Peg gets less than half the snowfall QC gets. Winnipeg is also drier. Yes, mosquitos are terrible in Winnipeg and the fact they have to fog exemplifies that. The city is also highly isolated and you basically need to fly to get anywhere.

The above are things that Winnipeg cannot change. There are, however, things the city can do something about to make it more appealing. The most obvious is the city's crime and murder rate which gives the city a very bad reputation. Winnipeg is consistently Canada's murder capitol and has a lot of social ills that turn people off. Many people flee larger cities, in part, due to their perceived level of crime and social decay but moving to Winnipeg is like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

Whether fair or not, people's perception of a city matters a lot in terms of appealing to newcomers and keeping the people they already have. You see this play out with Edmonton and Calgary but due to Edmonton's much higher rate of crime and decay in the downtown core, Edmonton has a lousy reputation nationwide while Calgary has a good one.
Winnipeg hasn't enchanted you enough. Their marketing team is not as strong as White Rock.

Killer Mosquitoes excluded.
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  #152  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2023, 6:27 PM
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I guess you could also say that both Wpg. and Que. Cy. have had their periods of "greatness", but they're over now. In both cases their strategic advantages have been challenged, eroded, and become more irrelevant and subjugated over time.
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  #153  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2023, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I have always really liked The Peg. It has great bones and some really wonderful architecture and neighbourhoods and is a very cultured city.

Those attributes do not, however, erase some of the things that make it unappealing. From the frigid winters, deadly mosquitos, geographic isolation, and relatively low wages. It's social ills and very high crime rates are, for many, the nail in the coffin.
...
Yet despite all of that it's still growing. It doesn't matter where the new arrivals are coming from. They are making Winnipeg aka Peg City their home.

The city may have stagnated from 1991-2001, but since then it's grown by 130,000 in the city (~45,000 of which was 2016-2021), and just under 165,000 in the CMA in the last 2 decades.

2021 population
City 749,607
CMA 834,678

Winnipeg may be the most maligned larger city/Metro in Canada but its strengths overall outweigh the weaknesses.

The largest Francophone community in Western Canada, rapidly growing multicultural population, a thriving live theatre scene, ballet, a symphony orchestra, a really nice *new* botanical gardens (The Leaf), the Exchange district and The Forks. Like Edmonton, it's a festival city with always something going on throughout the year. It also has 1 really good (Manitoba) and 1 decent (Winnipeg) university, and a solid community college.

Plus the airport is renovated and Minneapolis is a cool near-ish American Metropolis to explore.

Does Winnipeg have the historic charm/vibe of Quebec City? of course not, but overall it definitely offers a decent quality of life.

It's still affordable to rent an apartment or purchase a house too, in contrast to the craziness of lower BC mainland or southern Ontario where many have been priced out of home ownership, and market rental rates are bonkers.
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  #154  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2023, 8:36 PM
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Winnipeg

Population in Urban Area, now
833,084
World: 727th North America: 94th Canada: 8th
Population in City Area, 2022-08-11
749,607
World: 495th North America: 18th Canada: 6th
Winnipeg Urban Area Population Graph

YEAR TOTAL POPULATION
1950 345,000
1951 355,000
1952 366,000
1953 377,000
1954 388,000
1955 400,000
1956 412,000
1957 424,000
1958 437,000
1959 450,000
1960 463,000
1961 477,000
1962 483,000
1963 489,000
1964 496,000
1965 503,000
1966 509,000
1967 515,000
1968 522,000
1969 528,000
1970 534,000
1971 541,000
1972 548,000
1973 556,000
1974 563,000
1975 571,000
1976 578,000
1977 579,000
1978 580,000
1979 580,000
1980 581,000
1981 583,000
1982 591,000
1983 600,000
1984 608,000
1985 617,000
1986 626,000
1987 633,000
1988 640,000
1989 647,000
1990 654,000
1991 661,000
1992 662,000
1993 663,000
1994 665,000
1995 666,000
1996 667,000
1997 669,000
1998 671,000
1999 673,000
2000 675,000
2001 677,000
2002 681,000
2003 684,000
2004 688,000
2005 691,000
2006 696,000
2007 703,000
2008 710,000
2009 717,000
2010 724,000
2011 731,000
2012 741,000
2013 750,000
2014 760,000
2015 770,000
2016 780,000
2017 790,000
2018 800,000
2019 808,000
2020 817,000
2021 825,000
2022 833,000
2023 841,000
2024 849,000
2025 857,000
2026 865,000
2027 874,000
2028 882,000
2029 890,000
2030 898,000
2031 905,000
2032 913,000
2033 921,000
2034 929,000
2035 937,000

Winnipeg Population Review
Winnipeg is a city located in the province of Manitoba in Canada. It is the largest city in the province and is also the capital of the province. It is home to 819 thousand people in the urban area and 632 thousand people in the city area. The city is named after Lake Winnipeg, whose name comes from a Western Cree word meaning ‘muddy water’.

The area was a known trading center for indigenous people long before the arrival of the Europeans. Established in 1738, Winnipeg is the eighth-most populated municipality in Canada and is known as the “Gateway to the West”.

A large population of First Nations’ people
The demographics of Winnipeg show it to be a multicultural and multilingual city: typical of most large, Canadian cities. A large part of the city’s population descended from First Nations people, with almost 11% of Winnipeg’s population self-identifying. This is far beyond the national average of 4.3%. The strong presence of First Nations’ descendants plays heavily into the city’s makeup. The city has the largest population of urban and off-reserve First Nations people, with about 72,000 Indigenous people calling the city home.

Winnipeg also has a large Filipino population, with Tagalog being the second-most common mother tongue spoken in the city. About 5% of the city’s population speak Tagalog as a first language and 8.7% of the city’s total population are Filipino. The city’s Filipino population live mostly in the West End and North End of the city.

A booming downtown core
Downtown Winnipeg is the city’s financial and economic core. Centred on the intersection of Portage Avenue and Main Street, it covers 2.6 square kilometres and is the fastest growing, high-income neighbourhood out of all of Winnipeg’s 236 neighbourhoods. There are more than 72,000 people who work in the downtown core and over 40,000 students attend classes at the universities and colleges located there.

The downtown core of Winnipeg has also been undergoing major changes, with the past few decades seeing huge revitalization efforts. Since 1999, over $1.2 billion dollars CAD has been invested in revamping downtown Winnipeg.

An economic powerhouse
Winnipeg has one of Canada’s most diversified economies and it is considered an economic base for the province. Major employment sectors are in the trades (15.2%), manufacturing (9.8%), education (7.7%), and health care and social assistance (15.2%). The city of Winnipeg had 21,000 employers listed as of 2012 and, as of 2014 there were approximately 416,700 people working in Winnipeg and the surrounding areas.

Winnipeg’s economy is rated as the fourth largest in Canada, just behind three of other major cities (Toronto, Calgary, and Regina). Winnipeg’s economy continues to flourish, with a real GDP growth of 2 percent in 2014 and a decrease in unemployment n 2013—something that was not happening in most of Canada. The median income in Winnipeg is around $72,000.

Culture Capital
In 2010, Canadian Heritage named the city of Winnipeg the Culture Capital of Canada. The city is rife with national historic sites (26, to be exact) and The Forks alone attracts 4 million visitors per year. It has many attractions, including the ‘City’ television studio, the Manitoba Theatre for Young People, the Winnipeg International Children’s Festival, and the Canadian Museum for Human Rights.

The city’s multicultural roots have also led to a variation of dishes and cooking styles that have now become unique to Winnipeg. Combinations of First Nations, European and Asian cooking styles have led to the city being known for its unique confectionaries and hot-smoked fish. Some of the city’s most famous dishes include schmoo torte, which is a torte with layers of whipped cream, caramel and nuts and sponge or angel food cake, and wafer pie, a Graham cracker pie which dates back to the 19th or early 20th century.


Quebec City

Population in Urban Area, now
838,063
World: 723rd North America: 93rd Canada: 7th
Population in City Area, 2022-08-11
531,902
World: 707th North America: 29th Canada: 8th
Quebec City Urban Area Population Graph

YEAR TOTAL POPULATION
1950 268,000
1951 275,000
1952 283,000
1953 290,000
1954 298,000
1955 306,000
1956 314,000
1957 323,000
1958 331,000
1959 340,000
1960 349,000
1961 358,000
1962 369,000
1963 380,000
1964 391,000
1965 403,000
1966 414,000
1967 427,000
1968 440,000
1969 454,000
1970 467,000
1971 481,000
1972 493,000
1973 505,000
1974 518,000
1975 530,000
1976 543,000
1977 549,000
1978 555,000
1979 562,000
1980 568,000
1981 574,000
1982 580,000
1983 586,000
1984 592,000
1985 598,000
1986 604,000
1987 612,000
1988 620,000
1989 629,000
1990 638,000
1991 646,000
1992 651,000
1993 656,000
1994 662,000
1995 667,000
1996 672,000
1997 675,000
1998 678,000
1999 681,000
2000 684,000
2001 687,000
2002 694,000
2003 700,000
2004 707,000
2005 713,000
2006 720,000
2007 729,000
2008 739,000
2009 748,000
2010 757,000
2011 767,000
2012 773,000
2013 780,000
2014 787,000
2015 794,000
2016 801,000
2017 808,000
2018 816,000
2019 821,000
2020 826,000
2021 832,000
2022 838,000
2023 844,000
2024 851,000
2025 858,000
2026 866,000
2027 873,000
2028 881,000
2029 889,000
2030 897,000
2031 905,000
2032 912,000
2033 920,000
2034 928,000
2035 936,000

Quebec City Population Review
Quebec City is the capital of the province of Quebec, located in Canada. It is home to 827,000 people in the urban area and 528,000 people in the city area. It is the eleventh largest city in Canada and the seventh largest metro area in Canada. It sits bordered by two rivers: the St. Charles River and the St. Lawrence River, which is why the Algonquian people originally named the area Kébec, an Algonquian word that means “where the river narrows”, since this is where the St. Laurence and the St. Charles narrow to a final meeting point.

Quebec City is spread over 485 square kilometers with a population density of about 228 people per square kilometers, which puts it much higher than the province’s population density of about 5 people per square kilometer.

Municipal mergers and an expanding city
In 2002, Quebec City annexed 12 former towns. These include: Sainte-Foy, Beauport, Charlesbourg, Sillery, Loretteville, Val-Bélair, Cap-Rouge, Saint-Émile, Vanier, L'Ancienne-Lorette, Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures and Lac-Saint-Charles. This was one of several municipal mergers that took place across the province of Quebec around that time. Four years later, L'Ancienne-Lorette and Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures were reconstituted as separate municipalities after a demerger referendum, however the other ten towns remain part of Quebec City. In 2009, Quebec City also restructured its boroughs down from 8 to 6.

Since 1950, the city has more than tripled in population—going from 268,000 inhabitants to its current number of 826,000 people. The city is predicted to continue growing steadily, with an estimated increase of another 100,000 people by 2035.

Demographics of the city
The cities demographics are almost equally split between male and female, with 48.2% of the population being male and 51.8% being female. Almost 21% of the population of the city are of retirement age (65 years and older) and 4.7% of the population are children under five. The median age of the city is around 43 years of age, which is a bit older than the country’s average of 41 years.

The number of visible minorities in the city is relatively low compared to other large cities, with only 6.3% of the population identifying as a visible minority. This is in comparison to the national average of 22.3%. The largest visible minority are Black Canadians, who make up 2.4% of the population.

A more equal income distribution
Compared to many other cities in North America, there is less income inequality in Quebec City across neighborhoods than in many other cities across the continent. There are some minor disparities between neighborhoods, such as the wealthier residents living in the former towns of Sillery, Cap-Rouge, and Sainte-Foy and the working-class residents living in the lower towns before Old Quebec, like Saint-Sauveur and Saint-Roch. However, Saint-Roch and Saint-Sauveur have also been seeing a lot of gentrification over the past 20 years, with many young professionals moving into the area and the construction of new condos and offices.

From a village, to a city
Quebec City was originally the capital of the French empire in North America. While this may seem like it was always a large and bustling city, it was actually nothing more than a generous village for many years. In 1608, it only had 28 residents. By the time of the Conquest in 1759, the village had become a town with 8,000 residents. Rapid growth continued in the 1800s, with the city adding over 50,000 residents by 1861. The economic expansion that the timber trade and administrative and political activities were providing the city meant that it was attracting many new people to the city.

The city’s growth is still above that of the rest of the province, with Quebec City growing by 6.5% a year, compared to the rest of the province at 4.9%
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  #155  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2023, 9:44 PM
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  #156  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2023, 10:15 PM
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Does Winnipeg have the historic charm/vibe of Quebec City? of course not,
.
the thing is, it almost could....Old Quebec is obviously in a league of its own, but Winnipeg has a large one-of-a-kind National Historic Site right in the middle of its downtown...150 turn of the century buildings in a largely intact urban neighbourhood....if we tried a little harder it could be a similar experience to Old Quebec.


outside of that one square kilometer, Quebec City is pretty much a normal mid-sized Canadian city...Winnipeg just needs to make its one square kilometer better....places like Gastown in Vancouver get so much oxygen, but its built form pales in comparison to the Exchange District in Winnipeg.
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  #157  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2023, 10:28 PM
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  #158  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2023, 10:29 PM
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the thing is, it almost could....Old Quebec is obviously in a league of its own, but Winnipeg has a large one-of-a-kind National Historic Site right in the middle of its downtown...150 turn of the century buildings in a largely intact urban neighbourhood....if we tried a little harder it could be a similar experience to Old Quebec.


outside of that one square kilometer, Quebec City is pretty much a normal mid-sized Canadian city...Winnipeg just needs to make its one square kilometer better....places like Gastown in Vancouver get so much oxygen, but its built form pales in comparison to the Exchange District in Winnipeg.
I will say though we are at least trying with the Exchange District. Definitely trying a lot more then the other inner city neighbourhoods.
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  #159  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2023, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
outside of that one square kilometer, Quebec City is pretty much a normal mid-sized Canadian city...Winnipeg just needs to make its one square kilometer better....
That is not true at all. You forget about large neighbourhoods such as Saint-Roch, Saint-Jean-Baptiste, Montcalm, Limoilou, Saint-Sacrement, and even Saint-Sauveur. More largely, in the metro area, Levis/Lauzon also have some interesting architecture and quite large heritage districts. And Quebec (the city alone) also has many smaller centres hidden within its suburban fabric such as Beauport, Charlesbourg (Trait-Carré), Cap-Rouge, Sillery, Montmorency, Courville... The metropolitan area sure has a fair amount of crappy typical north-american developments, but it's not as you describe it. Will anything I just wrote make Quebec reach 1M before Winnipeg? Not at all. Winnipeg will probably win this. I just wanted to clarify the point you were trying to make...
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Old Posted Jul 4, 2023, 10:59 PM
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surely you agree with me
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: winnipeg
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@basketball

it’s definitely the focus of downtown but nowhere near what that resource could be. It should be an international scale attraction. It should be what instantly forms the image of Winnipeg in the same way old Quebec does for Quebec City. The rest of Quebec is irrelevant to its image and attraction.

The Exchange needs five times more residents and five times fewer parking lots.

Last edited by trueviking; Jul 4, 2023 at 11:10 PM.
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