Japan's Olympic organizers lied about its weather, and now athletes are paying the pr

[dave8721]

Originally Posted by edale

I'm genuinely very surprised to learn that Tokyo gets so hot and steamy in the summers. It's so much farther north than Singapore, Bangkok, etc, and I wouldn't have expected the humidity to be as bad as those tropical cities. It's weird because I know it does get very cold and snows occasionally in Tokyo, which obviously does not happen in Singapore. That's why I assumed it was essentially the same climate as maybe DC or Atlanta.

Tokyo is at about the same latitude as Plymouth, NC (there are no real coastal US cities at that latitude). Right now in Plymouth it is 90 with a 111 heat index (higher than it has been at any point during the Tokyo olympics I believe). Washington DC is the closest "major" coastal city to the this latitude on the east coast. The Virginia Beach area might be a better approximation or maybe a slightly inland location like Suffolk, VA.

[ChiSoxRox]

I have a summer conference on planetary magnetospherics every other year, and the 2019 edition was Japan. The organizers scheduled the first week in June, to minimize the heat, humidity, and typhoon risk but still be post-academic year, and we were Sendai, in northern Honshu. It was still high 80s and so humid the dew would run down the windows in the morning.

Another equivalence with the East Coast is the presence of a warm-water current, the Kuroshio, pulling humidity up from the Philippines and Indonesia.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

I've only been to Tokyo in the cooler months but DC is downright miserable in the summer (and I live in Houston)

Around 1954 when I was a young child, King Saud of the KSA paid a visit to Washington DC but he departed ahead of schedule, claiming the city was too hot. Growing up there I remember being puzzled by this but no longer.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by dave8721

Tokyo is at about the same latitude as Plymouth, NC (there are no real coastal US cities at that latitude).

Latitude has no relevance. Paris is north of Montreal; London is north of Calgary. South Jersey is basically North Africa.

And no one knows Plymouth, NC, nor are there Olympics planned in Plymouth. The heat index in Tokyo is higher than DC, largely bc the humidity is much higher (basically 90% in Tokyo and 70% in DC, during peak periods).

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by 10023

Today and tomorrow are extreme heat. Highs of 93 and 94 degrees Fahrenheit.

I just don’t think Americans realise that Europeans consider anything higher than low 80s with any kind of humidity to be intolerably hot.

A high of 92 with humidity in the 70-80% range used to be a normal July-August day in the DC suburbs. Miserable but nobody found it unusual.

[edale]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I thought Tokyo's summer heat was well-known.

You thought it was well known, but posted the article about the Tokyo Olympic organizers lying and duping the IOC into thinking Tokyo wasn't as hot as it was in the summer? Odd.

I think most people assumed Tokyo was hot in the summer. But Singapore style humidity where the temperature barely gets below 80 at night is a different story.

[Camelback]

Tokyo officials lied about the weather? Lol.

As if nobody out there doesn't have a device in their pocket that can't look up the climate chart of Tokyo in July-August.
The record high temp in Tokyo in July is 103F, August it's 102, that means that if a heat wave were to set in during the Olympics, it is likely to reach record territory.
I found that information in 62 seconds. (yes, I timed myself).



Tokyo was awarded the games, not from lying about the weather, but probably by other means like bribes and prostitution.

Shout out Salt Lake City!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_W...ic_bid_scandal

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Latitude has no relevance. Paris is north of Montreal; London is north of Calgary. South Jersey is basically North Africa.

And no one knows Plymouth, NC, nor are there Olympics planned in Plymouth. The heat index in Tokyo is higher than DC, largely bc the humidity is much higher (basically 90% in Tokyo and 70% in DC, during peak periods).

Nobody really goes off of humidity percentages for the "real feel". You could have 99% humidity and feel really comfortable because the temperature is 60 degrees.
A more accurate measure of comfort is the dew point, or the temperature at which the atmosphere becomes saturated (where the base of clouds or fog form)

In general....Dew Points:
Below 50 comfortable
50-60 getting sticky
60-70 really sticky
70-80 oppressive

You can't have a dew point at 60 if the temperature is 40, this is why during the winter time, places like New York can be much drier than Phoenix. New York will have a dew point in the 20s, while Phoenix is in the 30s.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by edale

You thought it was well known, but posted the article about the Tokyo Olympic organizers lying and duping the IOC into thinking Tokyo wasn't as hot as it was in the summer? Odd.

I thought it was well known, which is why I posted the article; I would think the IOC would know that the 1964 Tokyo Olympics were even held in October specifically to avoid the heat of summer and to avoid the typhoon season which is usually in September.

I also posted the article because of the athletes being affected by the heat.

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by edale

You thought it was well known, but posted the article about the Tokyo Olympic organizers lying and duping the IOC into thinking Tokyo wasn't as hot as it was in the summer?

I think that the point is that it was well-known to everyone except for the IOC.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Camelback

Nobody really goes off of humidity percentages for the "real feel". You could have 99% humidity and feel really comfortable because the temperature is 60 degrees.

Tokyo has higher heat index than DC, due to humidity. You may not like the usage of humidity, but this is how we measure heat index.

I also completely disagree that relative humidity is largely irrelevant in deterring comfort. Almost nothing matters but humidity. 100 and no humidity is much more comfortable for physical activity than an 80 degree steam bath. And Tokyo appears to be a summer steam bath.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Tokyo has higher heat index than DC, due to humidity. You may not like the usage of humidity, but this is how we measure heat index.

Wrong. (You might be right about Tokyo heat index, I don't really care about a DC to Tokyo comparison, both are miserable in the summer).
Dew point is the most accurate measure of comfort.

Here's an image of NY dew points:

cbslocal.com

If dew points don't matter, why is it on the weather forecast? And btw, a dewpoint in the 20s is an atmospheric condition that is Sahara desert dry.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Camelback

Nobody really goes off of humidity percentages for the "real feel". You could have 99% humidity and feel really comfortable because the temperature is 60 degrees.
A more accurate measure of comfort is the dew point, or the temperature at which the atmosphere becomes saturated (where the base of clouds or fog form)

In general....Dew Points:
Below 50 comfortable
50-60 getting sticky
60-70 really sticky
70-80 oppressive

You can't have a dew point at 60 if the temperature is 40, this is why during the winter time, places like New York can be much drier than Phoenix. New York will have a dew point in the 20s, while Phoenix is in the 30s.

You're an Arizonan and don't believe in "dry heat"?

It would be rare to have east coast dew points in the 20s whereas in Tucson it isn't rare to have them well below that, even in winter.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

You're an Arizonan and don't believe in "dry heat"?

It would be rare to have east coast dew points in the 20s whereas in Tucson it isn't rare to have them well below that, even in winter.

The dew point has been in the 60s the last couple of weeks, that's East Coast tropical conditions! (not quite tropical, but you get it).

If the dew point is 29 in Tucson, then the temperature would have to hit 29 for a frost to form on your roof. Rare in Tucson, not so rare in suburban Phoenix. There are frosts many times during the winter on tile roofs and grassy areas.

We often have to cover up our desert vegetation (and tropical vegetation like bougainvilleas, bird or paradise, plum bushes) at night.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

I think that the point is that it was well-known to everyone except for the IOC.

Exactly; it's ridiculous to say that the IOC was duped.

And some athletes suffered because of the decision to hold the Olympics during this time of year.

Incidentally, the Seoul 1988 Olympics were held from September 17 - October 2nd of that year, which at the time I also found odd, being that the LA 1984 Games were in late July - early August. I was a freshman at UCSB in the fall of '88, and I found it odd that the summer Olympics were starting weeks after the fall quarter started.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Camelback

The dew point has been in the 60s the last couple of weeks, that's East Coast tropical conditions! (not quite tropical, but you get it).

If the dew point is 29 in Tucson, then the temperature would have to hit 29 for a frost to form on your roof. Rare in Tucson, not so rare in suburban Phoenix. There are frosts many times during the winter on tile roofs and grassy areas.

We often have to cover up our desert vegetation (and tropical vegetation like bougainvilleas, bird or paradise, plum bushes) at night.

Not so. It's a difficult to understand phenomenon and I don't fully understand it, but many mornings in winter I have frost on my roof but there is none on the ground, car windows etc. I've read this is because being just 12 ft or so above ground makes enough difference temperature wise but I don't believe it. I think it has something to do with the reflective nature of the roof (which is not tile: It's sprayed foam with a silicon reflective coating).

Yeah, I usually cover my bougainvillea, hibiscus and so on numerous times in winter although not the past winter which seemed very warm.

But I pay attention to the weather reports and my own humidity gauge (hygrometer?) and 5% is not a remarkably low humidity even in winter (during the day--it can go a lot higher at night, hence the frost on the roof).

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Not so. It's a difficult to understand phenomenon and I don't fully understand it, but many mornings in winter I have frost on my roof but there is none on the ground, car windows etc. I've read this is because being just 12 ft or so above ground makes enough difference temperature wise but I don't believe it. I think it has something to do with the reflective nature of the roof (which is not tile: It's sprayed foam with a silicon reflective coating).

Yeah, I usually cover my bougainvillea, hibiscus and so on numerous times in winter although not the past winter which seemed very warm.

But I pay attention to the weather reports and my own humidity gauge (hygrometer?) and 5% is not a remarkably low humidity even in winter (during the day--it can go a lot higher at night, hence the frost on the roof).

It's not difficult to understand. The temperature is taken at about head level, near the surface, your roof is well above the surface and is exposed to colder air because the ground constantly gives off heat throughout the night.

It's not any different than placing tropical plants along a south facing wall, they suffer less from plants out in the open.

There are weird winters that are warm and dry (last year) then they are followed by cold and wet winters killing all the ficus, bougainvilleas, hibiscus down to the roots. Last year's performance isn't a guarantee to next year's performance (stock market reference, lol).

[SFBruin]

According to my trusty weather comparison website, Tokyo has very similar dew points this time of year to those of Virginia Beach.

https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/1...Virginia-Beach

Make of this what you will.

[nito]

I was under the impression that the IOC sets the timing, not the host city. Thankfully it looks like the weather conditions have become more amicable.

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

As far as I know, the only two Olympics to turn s profit are both LA games and I suspect 2028 will as well. There probably is no other city in the world that can host the games on 1 day notice like LA. Every necessary venue is already built and with 2 large universities in the city, we never need to build a village for the athletes or the media

It really depends on how “profit” is defined, Sydney generated a technical loss, but the positive PR that the Olympics generated have most certainly been a net positive in the subsequent two decades. Seoul, Barcelona, Atlanta and London all turned a profit.

Los Angeles is certainly not alone in having the capability of hosting an Olympics tomorrow; London, Sydney and Paris come to mind and there are probably several others. In the lead up to Rio 2016, there was speculation that in the event of further delays, the games could have partially or fully reverted to London.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Latitude has no relevance. Paris is north of Montreal; London is north of Calgary. South Jersey is basically North Africa.

And no one knows Plymouth, NC, nor are there Olympics planned in Plymouth. The heat index in Tokyo is higher than DC, largely bc the humidity is much higher (basically 90% in Tokyo and 70% in DC, during peak periods).

It has some relevance when the two cities are in the same position on their respective continents.

Japan is actually somewhat milder as an island, but the east coast of the US and east coast of China can be expected to have similar weather patterns, for instance. Miami and Hong Kong have quite similar weather. And there’s a reason that Seattle and Vancouver have mild, wet climates like northwestern Europe.

Obviously ocean currents and trade winds are different in the Pacific and Atlantic, but I’m sure you follow the point.