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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 3:47 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
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Today was our 26th day with high over 100 F. Our long term normal is 12 days, but it's been increasing. A/C is a quality of life thing here. During the epic 2011 heat wave, we had 92 days over 100.

Unfortunately, many of us have to keep a jacket in the car because restaurants and theaters are often kept so cold. I keep my house at 82 F when I'm not home, and 77 F when I'm home. We have a lot of humid days (we're just not far enough west) so A/C's run a lot just to deal with indoor humidity. Of course, we're not as humid as Houston or New Orleans or Miami, but it can still get awfully humid.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 3:50 AM
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A/C's must be getting a lot more efficient. With my new unit, my last bill was only $195, and that included A/C, water, garbage pickup, sewer fee, etc.. And it covered a period when nearly every day was over 100 F, and I've done a lot of watering outside to help revive an ailing oak tree.

With my old A/C system, I would hate to think how much the electric part of my bill would be.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 3:51 AM
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It's easy to minimize A/C use with white shutters that can block and deflect sunlight, and opening the windows during cool and dry nights. When it is below 20 degrees at night with humdiex below 24 degrees, it's better to use open the windows.

When it's humid, it's also important to use a dehumidifier, which will allow the A/C to run more efficiently and the reduced humidity will also increase comfort without you having to lower the A/C temperature.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 4:32 AM
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Today was our 26th day with high over 100 F.
Wow. My condolences. Heat is much worse than cold... you can always put a coat in in the cold.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
It's doable. I lived in Amarillo for the entire summer of 2015 without A/C, then I lived in Cocoa FL for most of the summer of 2016 (July and August) again without A/C. You get used to the heat.

Now, yes, if you're currently addicted to A/C then try quitting it cold turkey in the middle of a heat wave, you're probably going to find it difficult. It's easier if you just don't have it as spring and summer progressively arrive.
Of course it's "doable". Humans live all over the planet without A/C.

I grew up in Washington DC where the typical summer day hit 94F with high humidity and we had no air conditioning in the 1950s. I never got used to it. But I survived it and no one ever doubted I would. My dad even claimed to like it. I hated it. Used to go down to the basement and lie on the concrete floor reading with a fan blowing on me. As soon as room air conditioners because available at a reasonable price, I demanded one. And I'll never be without A/C again if I'm in a climate that gets that hot (in San Francisco today was a typical July/August day with a high in the 60Fs--I don't have A/C here).
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 8:06 AM
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Originally Posted by AviationGuy View Post
A/C's must be getting a lot more efficient.
"Getting" over what period of time are you taliking about? Air conditioner efficiency is normally measured as SEER (Seasonal Energy Efficiency Ratio = a ratio of the amount of cooling produced (BTU) divided by the amount of electricity (watts) used). The unit that my house had when I bought it was from the 1970s and was estimated to be a SEER of about 7 ot 8. I replaced it about 5 years ago with one of 14, so about twice as efficient. Units of SEER 16 were available (for more money) but since I'm not using the house in mid-summer when that would save the most energy, I didn't feel it was necessary.

Apparently units as high as SEER 21 are now available but quite expensive.

Among the ways the unit I bought saved some enrgy was that it doesn't shut down the fan at the same time as the compressor. Since the evaporator coil will still be cold when the compressor shuts off, the fan keeps running for a few minutes until essentially the evaporator reaches about the same temperature as the ambient air, thereby transferring all the heat possible. I though that was rather clever.

I think it's worth summarizing here: If you have a high efficiency (high SEER rating) air conditioner using a non-polluting coolant chemical and power it with renewable (or nuclear) power, you are doing almost no damage to the environment.

Last edited by Pedestrian; Jul 29, 2018 at 8:20 AM.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 8:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Doady View Post
When it's humid, it's also important to use a dehumidifier, which will allow the A/C to run more efficiently and the reduced humidity will also increase comfort without you having to lower the A/C temperature.
A regular air conditioner IS a dehumidifier. It blows the warm humid air through the cold evaporator coil. Warm air can hold much more moisture than hot air and the temperature of the air immediately after passing through the coil is quite cold--much colder than the rooms it's to be blown into (maybe 40 degrees F). That wrings most of the moisture out of the air. In fact, many people living in places where air contitoing runs constantly at certain times of the year complain of dryness in their noses and throats. Some even use humdifiers to add some moisture back into the air.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 8:25 AM
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While air conditioning is certainly nice, I don't understand why people set the temperatures so low. It doesn't need to be fucking freezing to be comfortable.
What’s your definition of “freezing”?

I like 68 degrees F (20C) and start to feel uncomfortably warm at 75 degrees F (24C). If I’m driving I’ll set it even lower. I don’t want to sweat when I’m not wearing workout clothes.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 1:53 PM
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The compromise is using AC but not cooling the inside to a ridiculous level. I was just in Chicago and when it was maybe 28C and humid they cool bars to like, 17C. That's ridiculous - it could be 22 or 23 and still feel fine. New Orleans was even worse - 37C outside and they manage to cool bars with open windows! Energy costs in Ontario are just too much to do that.

I've heard Hong Kong takes this to an even worse level. The density of air conditioning has raised the already oppressive temperatures.
i have a fleece in my office in st. louis that i wear only in the summer...other people operate heaters.

during heat waves, in places i've lived that had three ft (or less) gangways between dark red brick houses/structures, the air temperature absulutely is impacted by huge AC condensers, especially turn of the century century multifamily with new a/c systems for every single unit. i've seen 43 C on thermometers during really bad heatwaves, when the official temp is 41 C at the airport. the noise in the summer from the AC condenser units is annoying, too. the record is 46 C in st. louis, which is generally a much higher temperature than most (if not all) southern cities outside of texas (actually the st. louis record is higher than houston, dallas, and austin)...partially because of the cityscape i imagine.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 6:46 PM
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The old light bulbs comsumed around 10 times more electricity than the new LED light bulbs, and most of that extra electricity to generate heat. LED/LCD monitors and TVs use like 1/3 the electricty of CRT monitors/TVs. Tablet computer consumes like 1/20 the electricity of a desktop computer plus monitor and speakers. Generally the electricity consumption and heat generated by household devices has reduced significantly in recent years (which the lower heat generated has also reduced the need for air conditioning). Air conditioning by itself is just a small part of the picture.

Window A/C is around 1500W. The old light bulbs were 60W or 100W each. Think about that.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 6:50 PM
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I will kill a spotted owl or two plus a whale to keep my AC going. Because Houston...
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 7:01 PM
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I have to have the AC set at 65. I hate too much heat. Cannot wait for cooler weather.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 7:03 PM
llamaorama llamaorama is offline
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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
The compromise is using AC but not cooling the inside to a ridiculous level. I was just in Chicago and when it was maybe 28C and humid they cool bars to like, 17C. That's ridiculous - it could be 22 or 23 and still feel fine. New Orleans was even worse - 37C outside and they manage to cool bars with open windows! Energy costs in Ontario are just too much to do that.

I've heard Hong Kong takes this to an even worse level. The density of air conditioning has raised the already oppressive temperatures.
HK seems like a good place to try district cooling. It’s very dense and most people live in huge buildings.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 7:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
What’s your definition of “freezing”?

I like 68 degrees F (20C) and start to feel uncomfortably warm at 75 degrees F (24C). If I’m driving I’ll set it even lower. I don’t want to sweat when I’m not wearing workout clothes.
When I use my AC I set it between 73 and 75.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
When I use my AC I set it between 73 and 75.
Yeah, way too warm for me indoors without a breeze.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 9:30 PM
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I mean this is similar to the issue of electric cars transferring pollution from the streets to the power plants.

It will take time but regardless of Trump's hard-on for coal and the glamorous lifestyle it afforded the working class miners, I think it's fair to say we've passed "peak coal" and it's probably not coming back.

Is there any developed country that hasn't reduced the percentage of electricity produced by coal in the last decade?
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Yeah, way too warm for me indoors without a breeze.
I've got a programmable theromostat like I assumed most people do these days. In the middle of the day when I'm going in and out of the house, it's set at 76F because coming in when it's any cooler the place feels cold. At 4 PM it automatically cools down to 74F for the evening which feels about right to me and at midnight, for sleeping, it dials back to 68F because I've got to have a light blanket. Then, of course, at 9 AM which is around when I usually get up, it goes to 76F again. Slightly different schedule on weekends so I can sleep later.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2018, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
I mean this is similar to the issue of electric cars transferring pollution from the streets to the power plants.

It will take time but regardless of Trump's hard-on for coal and the glamorous lifestyle it afforded the working class miners, I think it's fair to say we've passed "peak coal" and it's probably not coming back.

Is there any developed country that hasn't reduced the percentage of electricity produced by coal in the last decade?
The miners are doing fine digging coal for export to China.

CSX (railroad) hauls a lot of eastern coal from mines to export terminals:


https://www.csx.com

Revenue hauling coal is up 7% over last year.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2018, 3:44 AM
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In Texas, three coal/lignite fired power plants are shutting down. Just not economically feasible when natural gas is so cheap and there are so many gas-fired power plants all over the state (along with solar and wind). Even though I've worked with coal-fired plants for years in my job, I'm so glad to see them go.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2018, 3:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
I mean this is similar to the issue of electric cars transferring pollution from the streets to the power plants.

It will take time but regardless of Trump's hard-on for coal and the glamorous lifestyle it afforded the working class miners, I think it's fair to say we've passed "peak coal" and it's probably not coming back.

Is there any developed country that hasn't reduced the percentage of electricity produced by coal in the last decade?
I'll never understand the disdain for people who do manual labor. Not glamorous but it pays good and offers benefits, something most people are content with.
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