What New Yorkers Can Learn From Seoul

[M II A II R II K]

What New Yorkers Can Learn From Seoul


Jul 28, 2021

By Philip Mark Plotch

Read More: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/07/...rn-from-seoul/

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Here are six things that New Yorkers can learn from a trip to South Korea’s capital:

• Seoul’s subway beats New York in the quality of its service, the number of riders, and the miles it covers. What is most remarkable about the size of Seoul’s subway system is that its first subway opened in 1974. New York had a 70-year head start and I doubt that it will ever catch up to Seoul. I have become spoiled: I have not experienced a subway delay or a broken escalator since I moved here in February. In New York, I always added extra time to a trip in case of a subway problem, but I need not do so in Seoul.

• Less crime also means that transit agencies can provide better services because they have more resources and fewer expenses. No one is jamming escalators or jumping turnstiles. With fewer crimes, the MTA would not need to spend a fortune preventing and cleaning up graffiti, or repairing vandalized equipment and scratched windows. Likewise, it would not have to build fortress-like token booths that can withstand arsonists and assailants wielding weapons. Because the subway turnstiles, gates and stairways in New York’s subway stations were not designed to let hundreds of people quickly exit in an emergency, I do worry what would happen if they had to be evacuated. The platform doors at every Seoul station make it virtually impossible to fall into the tracks; they also help keep the stations cooler and quieter.

• Seoul taught me that a couple of simple measures can make it much easier to get around a big city. Giving numbers to stations is really smart. On the #2 line near my apartment, Station 219 (Samseong) is followed by Station 220 (Seolleung) and Station 221 (Yeoksam). I like that every station has exit numbers, too. When you are trying to navigate below ground or above ground, a sign that says “Exit 2” is a lot easier to understand than one that says “28 Street & Broadway NW.” The platform doors also have numbers, which is helpful because some subway-navigation apps tell you where to stand so that you will be closest to your exit.

• Subway stations can smell great. I had no idea! Many in Seoul have shops to buy cappuccinos, snacks, and jewelry along with fresh-baked treats such as cream-filled buns and croffles (that’s a cross between a waffle and a croissant). My personal favorite is a fish-shaped pastry with sweet, red beans. One station even has an underground farm where you can buy lettuce and microgreens from a vending machine.

• I used to think that all subway bathrooms were dangerous and bus terminals were gross. But it does not have to be that way! Seoul’s subway stations all have clean, safe bathrooms. I got confused when I was trying to find Seoul’s largest bus terminal. I thought I was on the ground floor of a fancy department store. It turns out that it serves both purposes. The bike paths underneath highways also are not terrible. Obviously, they aren’t an ideal place to ride, but when they are designed well it turns out they can be quite pleasant.

• New York cannot replicate the successes of Seoul’s transportation system anytime soon because American transportation agencies operate in a completely different environment. Korea’s national government generously funds affordable and reliable transportation across the country because most Koreans take a train or a bus to work. Because fewer than 5 percent of Americans do so, there is less support for public transportation federally. Seoul is able to keep its stations clean and properly maintain its platform doors because the subways have almost no vandalism and riders do not pry open doors as they are closing. Rather than despairing, New Yorkers should raise their expectations and demand that their elected officials do the same.

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[kingkirbythe....]

I like that numbering system.

[jmecklenborg]

Life in the United States is just plain rowdier than it is in many other parts of the world. The NY subway has always been an obnoxious place and that's how it's always going to be. Even in American airports, where there aren't many or any low-class people, the energy level is way higher than many overseas countries. You sense it the second you get off the plane from Europe. I haven't been to Asia but I bet it's even more pronounced.

[mhays]

Seoul seems to exemplify a much truer form of patriotism than is common in the US.

Here we celebrate doing your own thing and saying FU to everybody else.

[Busy Bee]

With fewer crimes, the MTA would not need to spend a fortune preventing and cleaning up graffiti, or repairing vandalized equipment and scratched windows.

This one is a red herring. The MTA barely has a railcar graffiti problem these days (paint on car exteriors) and European systems which see much higher incidents of graffiti on railcars manage to provide arguably better service.

[Busy Bee]

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[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by mhays

Here we celebrate doing your own thing and saying FU to everybody else.

Not everyone, and it's a model that's on a glide path to implosion.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Life in the United States is just plain rowdier than it is in many other parts of the world. The NY subway has always been an obnoxious place and that's how it's always going to be. Even in American airports, where there aren't many or any low-class people, the energy level is way higher than many overseas countries. You sense it the second you get off the plane from Europe. I haven't been to Asia but I bet it's even more pronounced.

We're so punk rock. The grit and the energy are part of the shtick. But taken apart the elements aren't very good and the place smells like piss.

[Locofresh55]

I've ridden New York Subway and Seoul Metro. Seoul Metro is nice and efficient but I've gotta say that Japan's railway systems are right up there or even better than Seoul's. Having lived near Tokyo for 4 years, I used Tokyo Metro, JR East and everything in between and these railways were 99% punctual and stations were always safe. I used Seoul metro for less time but I liked it alot and the tickets were much cheaper than the trains in Japan.

Bottom line, I think both Seoul and Tokyo are good examples of efficient railway systems.

[bzcat]

Seoul's subway system is not unique of course. Lots of subway system in Asia and Europe have platform doors and use similar station and exit numbering systems. These are generally best practices for transit agency operations which means politicians and decision makers in the US will purposely adopt the opposite approach because I've noticed adopting globally accepted best practices is generally frowned upon in the US. We don't even use the metric system, just because it makes too much sense.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by bzcat

We don't even use the metric system, just because it makes too much sense.

There are a lot of problems with the metric system. It is far less intuitive than the U.S. system because the numbers themselves do not indicate the unit of measure. For example, if I say 21/4, you know the UM is inches, since nobody says 21/4 feet or miles. Also, the foot - the benchmark of our system - is much more useful than the vague length of the meter, plus it's divisible by 12, which is more useful than 10 because it can be divided into equal thirds.

[Busy Bee]

I think it's safe to say metric or imperial could be argued both ways.

[homebucket]

And HK, Singapore, Taiwan, China, etc.

But then again, we'd be talking about a complete system reboot.

[mrnyc]

weeeelllllll .... let's just look at it like squad goals.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

There are a lot of problems with the metric system. It is far less intuitive than the U.S. system because the numbers themselves do not indicate the unit of measure. For example, if I say 21/4, you know the UM is inches, since nobody says 21/4 feet or miles. Also, the foot - the benchmark of our system - is much more useful than the vague length of the meter, plus it's divisible by 12, which is more useful than 10 because it can be divided into equal thirds.

That's ridiculous. There's nothing problematic about including the units in a number when the unit can be indicated by just two letters. Besides, you can tell just as easily which unit a metric figure is by the context. If someone was filling out a form that asked for their height and they just put 183, we'd know it was 183cm, while if they put 1.83 we'd know it was meters and if they put 1830 we'd know it was millimetres. Because we know no human is 183 kilometres or 1830 metres tall. But of course we usually get all "problematic" and say 183cm.

As far as being divisible by equal parts, we have a much simpler time using decimals if we want. But if we don't want, we can just as easily use fractions, something very common in UM.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Life in the United States is just plain rowdier than it is in many other parts of the world. The NY subway has always been an obnoxious place and that's how it's always going to be. Even in American airports, where there aren't many or any low-class people, the energy level is way higher than many overseas countries. You sense it the second you get off the plane from Europe. I haven't been to Asia but I bet it's even more pronounced.

LOL, that is a good observation. Even traveling from Canada (which is hardly all that foreign) to the US, there's a bit of a sensory assault. Giant signs, bumper stickers, t-shirts with overt political messages, people telling you their life story in a line-up at the cashier, volunteers cornering you on the street to get you to sign propositions...none of this really happens in Canada. You have to be prepared for a higher level of obnoxiousness when you enter the US, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[kingsdl76]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

LOL, that is a good observation. Even traveling from Canada (which is hardly all that foreign) to the US, there's a bit of a sensory assault. Giant signs, bumper stickers, t-shirts with overt political messages, people telling you their life story in a line-up at the cashier, volunteers cornering you on the street to get you to sign propositions...none of this really happens in Canada. You have to be prepared for a higher level of obnoxiousness when you enter the US, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Great observation.

As an American that frequently travels to Canada, I notice that the level of stress in the air drops off significantly when you enter Canada.

The US definitely has its pros and cons. Some areas may seem more exciting in the US, but that comes with a certain level of stress that I don't think you'll find in Canada. - Not that I'm saying that life is perfect in Canada, but I do think it's overall more balanced.

[LAsam]

Lots of great public transit systems across the globe. I was really impressed with the system Paris has when I visited. The station entrances may look old fashioned, but the system is state-of-the-art. Barcelona has a really nice public transit system as well. London's is very extensive, but seemed a bit worn out when I most recently visited.

[hkskyline]

It's also cultural. Asian cultures are more conformist so breaking the rules is frowned upon. They also weigh the public good more heavily than individualistic happiness and that reflects in how public infrastructure is used and treated.

[jbermingham123]

Originally Posted by mhays

Seoul seems to exemplify a much truer form of patriotism than is common in the US.

Here we celebrate doing your own thing and saying FU to everybody else.

Something that's not discussed often enough in conversations about the effectiveness of public infrastructure in other countries is that most of the world's developed countries are ethnostates. I think from a human psychology standpoint, living in a country in which almost everyone you know or meet not only looks like you, but also more likely than not shares your cultural values has a huge impact on national identity and public willingness to support large investments that benefit the entire polity.

In this country, most cultural/ethnic communites, at best, dont really give a shit what happens in any of the other communities (they "[do their] own thing and [say] FU to everybody else").. and at worst are outright hostile, and even violent (i.e. tulsa massacre, lynchings, etc), to everyone who isnt them. Generally, people on this forum are mature/intellectual enough that ethnic concerns dont effect our interest in public projects or policy, but we are in a small minority unfortunately