Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere
At the same time, car makers not producing terrible cars that nobody buys just to say they have a $10,000 model doesn't mean cars have become more expensive either. That's why you have to control for quality - which is what CPI does.
As for me saying things repeatedly, I have quoted sources which you summarily threw out.
As for another example:
1995 Accord 4-dr EX. $22,295 ($43,596 USD in 2022).
Vehicle Length - 184 inches.
24mpg.
34 inch rear leg room.
145hp.
2023 Honda Civic LX - $24,650 USD.
Vehicle Length - 182.7 inches
33mpg.
37 inch rear leg room.
156hp.
Far superior safety features, heated seats, navigation, etc.
Which vehicle would you rather have? The way I see it, the 1995 Accord is roughly twice the price of the equivalent vehicle in 2022.
I had to move "down' a model for the comparison as vehicles have grown as they have become cheaper and the market has changed, as I said. What was once a mid-sized vehicle is now a compact, and compacts have basically disappeared. The Civic actually has 3 inches more rear leg room than the accord did in 1995.
Regardless, CPI does a much better job of controlling for this than a few examples thrown out on a message board can. Cars are cheaper and better than ever.
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You're arguing that cars are better value, not that they're cheaper. This discussion was initially about young people not being able to purchase cars due to manufacturer bloat.
I "threw out" the CPI data because you were misusing it. I suspect you still don't understand what the CPI data is showing if you're doubling down on it.
An illustrative example: The index new car goes up in price 5k over 10 years. Until 2022, the CPI pegged the index used car to this price increase. Lets assume they're using a factor of 0.8.
New car original price: 15
New car price now: 20k
Price Increase: 33%
Used car original price: 5k
Used car new price: 9k
Cost of acquiring new car has gone up from 10 to 11k, for a 10% increase. This is what the CPI passenger vehicle purchase index is measuring, not the actual selling price of new cars. This is also what the CPI uses to "control" the numbers. The downside of this approach is it doesn't reflect the cost to first time vehicle purchases or younger buyers, who do not have trade ins to offset the cost of purchase and are now facing far higher MSRPs than ever before (even if those cars are of higher quality).
Like I said earlier, I suspect the CPI index will actually show that purchase price index went down in 2022 because they've finally decoupled used cars from new cars, and the rise in price of used cars has outpaced new cars. The cost of acquisition may in fact go down this year, which is plainly not true. If the used car market collapses next year, we
may then see a sudden jump in the CPI index if new car production resumes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenC12
Yeah they constantly increase the size then introduce a smaller model.
F150s 15 years ago are the size of Rangers today.
A Camry from 2000 is the size of a Corolla today.
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The Ford F150 of 2013 has a length of 541-636 cm. The 2023 F150 ranges from 532cm to 636cm.
The base Ford Ranger XL starts at 39k, about 20k (or 100%) more than a base F150 XL in 2013. A mid tier 2023 Ranger XLT is still 32% more expensive (41 vs 31k) to a mid tier F150 XLT from 10 years ago.
Toyota's only car smaller than the Corrola is the more expensive Prius. The cheapest car they sell today is 50% more than the cheapest car they sold 10 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenC12
Mazda tried selling a low range EV and it went nowhere fast.
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The MX30 was a low volume unit that was tremendously over priced. It was a compliance car. It also sold out.
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