LOS ANGELES | Transportation News & Discussion

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by SoCalKid

I also don't see anything in the plans to specifically plan for the STC transfer

We're seeing a corollary here between the loosely parallel Wilshire/Expo pair and the loosely parallel Crenshaw/Sepulveda pair. In each case, the cheaper light rail option that made at least partial use of existing ROW's was built first.

If we were to rewind to the 1980s and the whole methane/sink hole Henry Waxman thing hadn't happened, and we had gotten the original heavy rail plan completed by 1995 or 2000, we'd be in a much different situation, since the heavy rail spines would have been built first.

It just seems like they're lobbing non-transformative light rail lines here and there (San Fernando Valley, K extension to Torrance) to make it look like they're trying when these projects have no hope of making a significant impact.

[sopas ej]

Metro has been holding community meetings for how to configure the C and K lines once the LAX connector is complete; there are three options:



- Provides direct connection to LAX/Metro Transit Center from all C and K Line Stations

- Riders from Norwalk segment of the existing C Line will get direct access to all K Line stations including Expo/Crenshaw connection to the the E Line

- Riders traveling to/from the Redondo Beach segment of the existing C Line will need to change trains at Aviation/Century Station to reach the Norwalk segment

- Riders from the Redondo Beach segment of the existing C Line will need to change trains at LAX/Metro Transit Center to reach K Line stations north of there, including Expo/Crenshaw connection to the E Line



- Provides direct connection to LAX/Metro Transit Center from all C and K Line Stations

- Riders from the Redondo Beach segment of the existing C Line will get direct access to all K Line stations including Expo/Crenshaw connection to the E Line

- Riders traveling from the Norwalk segment of the existing C Line to the Redondo Beach segment of the C Line will need to change trains at Aviation/Century Station

- Riders from the Norwalk segment of the existing C Line will need to change trains at LAX/Metro Transit Center to reach K Line stations north of there, including Expo/Crenshaw connection to the E Line



- Provides direct connection to LAX/Metro Transit Center from all K Line Stations and the Norwalk segment of the existing C Line

- No direct connection to LAX/Metro Transit Center from the Redondo Beach segment of the existing C Line

- Riders from Norwalk segment of the existing C Line will get direct access to all K Line stations, including Expo/Crenshaw connection to the E Line

- Riders traveling from existing C Line stations between Willowbrook/Rosa Parks and Aviation/LAX will have a direct connection to the Redondo Beach segment of the existing C Line

- Riders traveling from Norwalk, Lakewood Bl and Long Beach Bl stations will need to change trains at Aviation/LAX Station to reach the Redondo Beach segment of the existing C Line

When the Regional Connector was being built, Metro was debating about having one line go directly from Azusa to Santa Monica, and the other line going from East LA to Long Beach, vs. what they settled on now, which you would think would be a no-brainer. I'm glad they settled on Azusa to Long Beach and Santa Monica to East LA.

[homebucket]

Option 3 is a nonstarter to me since there is no direct connection to LAX from the Redondo Beach segment of the C Line. This line is supposed to have a future extension to Torrance (and ideally eventually Long Beach) as well, so making sure that LAX is accessible from as many locations as possible will be key.

That leaves Option 1 or Option 2. Option 2 makes the more sense to me geographically speaking, as it would keep the K Line a predominantly north-south line. It would also be great if the Inglewood Transit Connector could reach Hawthorne/Lennox somehow as well, so folks from from the Norwalk segment of the C Line can access the stadiums more readily.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Option 3 is a nonstarter to me since there is no direct connection to LAX from the Redondo Beach segment of the C Line. This line is supposed to have a future extension to Torrance (and ideally eventually Long Beach) as well, so making sure that LAX is accessible from as many locations as possible will be key.

That leaves Option 1 or Option 2. Option 2 makes the more sense to me geographically speaking, as it would keep the K Line a predominantly north-south line. It would also be great if the Inglewood Transit Connector could reach Hawthorne/Lennox somehow as well, so folks from from the Norwalk segment of the C Line can access the stadiums more readily.

Agreed, seems the most logical to me as well

[craigs]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Agreed, seems the most logical to me as well

Yeah, I'd go with Option 2 as well.

[FromSD]

I agree that Option 2 makes the most sense and Option 3 the least.

When the Green Line was originally planned, there were still a huge number of aerospace production jobs in El Segundo. The people who filled those jobs often lived in Hawthorne or further east in South LA. The Green Line was intended to provide workers in those areas with high quality public transit to their jobs in El Segundo. By the time the Green Line opened in the early '90s, however, the post cold war LA defense slump was in full swing and many of the aerospace production jobs had gone away or moved to states with cheaper labor costs. The workers left in El Segundo aerospace tended to be engineers who lived in the South Bay or further afield in the San Fernando Valley or Orange County. So the Green Line lost one of its most important reasons for being. Option 3 really captures the original purpose of the Green Line, a purpose that has been overcome by events.

Option 2 provides the best access to the north and east as well as the South Bay. It will prove even more useful after the K Line is extended south to Torrance.

[jmecklenborg]

Why not...do all three?

1. Norwalk-Rodondo (current service)
2. Expo-Rodondo
3. Expo-Norwalk

[Busy Bee]

So "full" service from Expo to Aviation/Century and two interlined "half" services making full service from Norwalk to Aviation/LAX and Mariposa to Redondo Bch. Unless the ridership pattern/demand is off balanced and skews significantly northbound and/or leads to insufficient north/south service south of Aviation/Century that actually seems pretty sensible. They'll probably claim that the scheduling interference makes such a plan difficult to achieve even though the frequencies are nowhere near other rapid transit heavy rail like interlined sections of NY subway or BART. A branched K line to prevent confusion in that situation may also need to be split into two separate line letters/bullets.

[SFBruin]

I, an outsider, had assumed that the K Line would be a connector, and would run from the Expo Line to to the Green Line, while all of the other services would remain intact.

[Busy Bee]

It will still fulfill the function of connector even if it was through-routed and it would open up the possibility of one-seat rides which are always going to be popular with the public.

[SFBruin]

^ True.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

I, an outsider, had assumed that the K Line would be a connector, and would run from the Expo Line to to the Green Line, while all of the other services would remain intact.

It looks that way on the planning maps since it is colored as one pink segment (graphic below), but I think the plan was always to come up with a new service pattern. Looks like the Metro board initially approved a one-year pilot of Option 3, but due to construction delays, which was fortuitous in this particular instance, reassessed and sought public opinions and Option 2 now seems to be the most likely service pattern.

Per Wiki:

Varying service patterns have been proposed for integrating the completed Crenshaw/LAX Line into the rest of the system over the course of its planning and construction, all of which have involved sharing trackage and infrastructure facilities with the existing C Line. Although some early proposals would've sent trains through all three directions of the wye that will connect the existing C Line with the new segment, this was rejected by Metro because it would cause too much wear and tear on the track switch mechanisms.[20][21]

The debate over service patterns proved somewhat contentious, as the final pattern must balance the needs of riders, operational needs, and the political constituencies of Metro's board members.[22] In 2018, with the line then scheduled to open within the year, the Metro Board of Directors overrode a recommendation by operations staff that would've had a single line operating between Expo/Crenshaw and Norwalk station. Passengers from the Redondo Beach area would have been served by a shuttle to the LAX area, where they would need to transfer to another train to continue east or north. Instead, board members approved a one-year pilot of a configuration that would combine an Expo-to-Norwalk line with another line that would connect Redondo Beach with Willowbrook/Rosa Parks station, allowing transfers to the A and J Lines.[23][24] The approved plan would incur higher operating expenses but board members argued it would retain better transfer opportunities for South Bay residents.[25]

Ongoing construction delays led to a reassessment of that plan in 2022. Metro recommended public outreach aimed at reformulating the operating plan before the connection to the C Line opens in 2023;[2] in March of 2023, Metro indicated that it would recommend Option 2 in the figure above, in which the K Line would run north-south from Expo/Crenshaw to Redondo Beach, and the C Line would run from Norwalk to LAX.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Why not...do all three?

1. Norwalk-Rodondo (current service)
2. Expo-Rodondo
3. Expo-Norwalk

Probably a combination of higher operating costs and too much wear and tear on the track switch mechanisms.

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by homebucket

It looks that way on the planning maps since it is colored as one pink segment (graphic below)

That makes sense.

[SFBruin]

Is there any argument for all three, but terminating the Expo-Norwalk section at Hawthorne?

[Tcmetro]

I always liked Option 3 as it keeps the connection point at Aviation/Imperial.

[SFBruin]

I know that this won't be popular, but: Would there ever be consideration of having the northern K Line extension stop at Wilshire, and connect with the Purple Line at Western?

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by SFBruin

I know that this won't be popular, but: Would there ever be consideration of having the northern K Line extension stop at Wilshire, and connect with the Purple Line at Western?

You mean stopping, as in terminating, at Wilshire/Western as opposed to the current proposals of a transfer station at either Wilshire/La Brea or Wilshire/Fairfax, before continuing northwards up to the B Line at Hollywood/Highland? I think one of the main drivers of the K Line Northern Extension is connectivity to West Hollywood/Hollywood so ending it at Wilshire wouldn’t make much sense.

[TWAK]

Option 2 looks to be the best and what's the black line that has SoFi, a people mover or planned LTR route?

[SFBruin]

Originally Posted by homebucket

You mean stopping, as in terminating, at Wilshire/Western as opposed to the current proposals of a transfer station at either Wilshire/La Brea or Wilshire/Fairfax, before continuing northwards up to the B Line at Hollywood/Highland? I think one of the main drivers of the K Line Northern Extension is connectivity to West Hollywood/Hollywood so ending it at Wilshire wouldn’t make much sense.

Yes.