Regional identity

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Okay? Virginia planter culture was never dominant over New England colonies and was quite literally obliterated by 1865.

Virginia was by far the richest colony at the declaration of independence, and in the first census it had about the same population as all of New England combined (granted 40% of the population were slaves). Industrialization gave the northern states economic leverage, but prior to that Virginia called the shots. If New England had its way, slavery would have been abolished when the new country was created but they didn't have enough leverage over the richer southern colonies that bankrolled the Revolutionary War.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Yeah I agree. Granted, I grew up in between Philly and NYC, and my fiance grew up in Fairfield. But I had service electric cable growing up that had Comcast Philadelphia, the YES Network, and the MSG to watch all the regional teams. Along with two NBCs and two local Fox stations in case you wanted to watch the different local news. The regional rail networks are linked together. Six Flags, the Jersey Shore, Mister Softee, etc are shared cultural things. Many more people commute back and forth for work between philly and nyc than the opposite way.

The Poconos are also in both the NYC and Philadelphia domain. Mister Softee is not specific to NYC and Philly, though. Detroit has Mister Softee, and wouldn't be surprised if Boston does too.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The Poconos are also in both the NYC and Philadelphia domain. Mister Softee is not specific to NYC and Philly, though. Detroit has Mister Softee, and wouldn't be surprised if Boston does too.

Interesting, always thought it was a regional thing. The jingle is burned into the brains of anyone who ever lived in the cities before

[Crawford]

Looking it up, Mr. Softee is based in NJ, so it makes sense it's a summertime staple in both NYC and Philly.

Never seen it outside the Northeast. Ice cream trucks are a normal thing everywhere, but I thought Mr. Softee is a more local thing.

Also love all those sketchy bootleg trucks. Mr. Freezy, Softee Time, etc.

[woodrow]

I think Obadno may be talking about the dominant US "cultural hegemony" such as existed from the 19th-to mid 20th century, and that definitely was New England. Protestant work ethic, Puritanical, strict moral code (whether followed or not), belief in the common good and communal goals, strong belief in basic mass education.

[Crawford]

Those aren't New England values. They're more like legacy WASP northeastern values. BosWash cultural totems.

New England is also "Live Free or Die" New Hamsphire, the Maine backwoods, Vermont isolationism, etc. Philly's Main Line was almost certainly a bigger 20th century cultural force than Boston equivalents.

[Steely Dan]

^ yeah, I think some people here are conflating "new england" for all of "east coast WASP establishment".

New England is merely a subset of that larger dynamic.

[woodrow]

I'll give you the Mid-Atlantic as part of that, but most of the cultural/intellectual framework was driven by NE Puritans.

[pdxtex]

Regional identity? Oh you mean strong opinions. Yeah we have those.The PNW's identity is kind of midwestern adjacent with a bit of frontier optimism and melancholy thrown in for good measure. There is a bit of coastal elitism in our cities but its mostly imported thru the lens of big ten college graduates or Californians.

[JManc]

New England has a shared history and fits in a neat geographical area and coalesces around Boston culturally even if its bumfuck Coos County NH. People tend to associate it with the Boston elite but Crawford is correct, it's a mish mash.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Philly's Main Line was almost certainly a bigger 20th century cultural force than Boston equivalents.

Was it?

There's a book called Puritan Boston and Quaker Philadelphia which suggests the opposite. It was written by the University of Pennsylvania sociologist Digby Baltzell.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by Docere

Was it?

There's a book called Puritan Boston and Quaker Philadelphia which suggests the opposite. It was written by the University of Pennsylvania sociologist Digby Baltzell.

I know of the book and the main point was the Purtians felt the need to instill their values into others and make it prevalent in their communities. Where the Quakers believed more in a 'live and let be' type of governing. Tracing the origins of the 'rugged individualism' I think there is a strong case that in the end, the idea of 'live in and let be' or 'you can do what you want as long as it doesn't effect me' won out.

Beyond the 17th/18th century stuff though, it was clear by the industrial revolution and the era of railroads, the mid-Atlantic states were exporting tons more culture to the rest of the country than New England.

The general American accent was born out of a combination of midland and northern accents that originated around NYC and Philadelphia

[TWAK]

Nor Cal and So Cal, and then there's a split within Nor Cal with the unrecognized State of Jefferson. The borders are whimsical and can shift, but it would be in the bottom of a lot of categories .
There's a huge cultural and economic difference, among other things with Nor/So Cal.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by TWAK

Nor Cal and So Cal, and then there's a split within Nor Cal with the unrecognized State of Jefferson. The borders are whimsical and can shift, but it would be in the bottom of a lot of categories .
There's a huge cultural and economic difference, among other things with Nor/So Cal.

I think ordinary people in the Bay Area and Southern California share a "Californian" identity, despite the subtle differences in slang, food styles, demographics, etc. Sacramento and the other Central Valley cities have their own sub-identity but I think it overlaps with the California identity. Jefferson, however, is a large geography in which people definitely diverge from any shared identity with the state's metropolitan areas.

[Velvet_Highground]

Michigan Vs. Everybody

[Velvet_Highground]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

I know of the book and the main point was the Purtians felt the need to instill their values into others and make it prevalent in their communities. Where the Quakers believed more in a 'live and let be' type of governing. Tracing the origins of the 'rugged individualism' I think there is a strong case that in the end, the idea of 'live in and let be' or 'you can do what you want as long as it doesn't effect me' won out.

Beyond the 17th/18th century stuff though, it was clear by the industrial revolution and the era of railroads, the mid-Atlantic states were exporting tons more culture to the rest of the country than New England.

The general American accent was born out of a combination of midland and northern accents that originated around NYC and Philadelphia

Historic connectivity via the old co-opted Native trail system (Michigan focused but it’s what I have). Came about this before I popped in here wanted to throw this out there. Though the Erie Canal had the biggest impact on NY-NE to GL & Upper Mississippi basin though the framework was already laid down.

http://detroiturbanism.blogspot.com/...rican.html?m=1

There’s definitely a strong Quaker influence in Michigan or at least the city I live in Farmington / Farmington Hills. I’ve seen a lot of New York influence in the history of MI. I agree with the Northern identity although it was strong 20 years ago it’s been weakened with the partition of the “rust belt” into successes and failures.

I feel there used to be a pretty strong Northern identity in the big industrial Great Lakes cities. Shared sports divisions, music & style of living. It’s become much more fragmented as has much of life in general with the retreat from the social activism of the 60’s to the more personal identity focus that started cropping up in the 70’s. What areas were left behind, how long & if they have even had a recovery is at the heart of the so called politics of betrayal.

[Docere]

Thought this was interesting:

Explains Cayton: “Up until the last 30 or 40 years, the Midwest was not a peripheral part of the United States. What we call the Midwest — from the mid-19th century to the mid-20th century — truly was the heartland of the United States. It was also the political and economic powerhouse of the United States.

“Region as an identity tends to coalesce in places where people feel alienated or cut off — the South being the classic example. “The fact that the term Midwest came so late to general usage goes to the point that nobody thought it was a particularly distinctive place,” Cayton says. “It’s not meant to be insulting. It’s meant to say, ‘This is America here.’ The South is not really quite America. New England is this old 18th-century place. And the West is way the heck out there. So this is the American heartland. People did not use the term Midwest in a widespread way until they began to think of the Midwest as being peculiar or out of the mainstream.”

https://www.hourdetroit.com/communit...ng-of-midwest/

[jbermingham123]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Tangent, but since moving to Seattle a year ago I've noticed it seems to have its own bizzare, unique accent, and having lived all over the "Western" area (in Montana, Colorado, and California) its definitely unique to Seattle.

Basically, the "E" sound (as in Edward) and the "A" sound (as in Apple) are both pronounced "Ay" (as in Day or Jay) in certain words

Ex: "a bag of eggs from Vancouver" is pronounced "a Bayg of Aygs from Vayncouver." Those are all words ive heard pronounced that way in real life

[Velvet_Highground]

Seattle is a new thing (relatively speaking) as a major top tier national region it’s cool to see a new accent / regional dialect form. Meh don’t worry about off topic tangent they happen sometimes it’s pretty interesting.

I wonder what influences have shaped the manner of speech, I know there’s a lot of Michiganders there have a few good friends in the area myself. I wonder if the speech pattern is internally generated, a borrowed custom or a mix.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

The general American accent was born out of a combination of midland and northern accents that originated around NYC and Philadelphia

This might explain accent, but not dialect... I think it's very oudated.

I use "barely" to mean "just recently," as in "Hold on, I barely got out of the shower." Someone told me that's a very LA thing to say, specifically East LA. I also say "Where's your homegirl?" without giving it a second thought. I think people in LA don't realize how much Mexican-American dialect has become very mainstream throughout SoCal.

Being that I've only ever lived in southern California, do people in the Midwest or New England use "barely" that way?

For the record, the dictionary definition of "barely" is "in a meager manner; scarcely; plainly," as in "a barely furnished room" or "barely enough money for dinner."