CHICAGO | General Developments

[Dr. Taco]

^ it'd be nice if they were able to sort of put columbus under ground from monroe to roosevelt, and have a parkway of some kind in its place above it. I don't think columbus is pretty at all

[Chicagoguy]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ i will agree that navy pier is certainly a gigantic tourist attraction for the city of chicago. but i also happen to believe that one navy pier is enough. i would not support littering our gleaming lakefront park system with more overly commercialized eyesores of that sort.

i love the lakefront park system just the way it is, and thankfully most chicagoans, and over a century's worth of legal precedents, agree with me.

some things that i think can make the lakefront/parks even better than they are today:

1. better access - both through ped. bridges and underpasses (especially southside) and through transit improvements, although i realize the words "transit expansion" are seemingly verboten in chicago. a new ped/bike bridge at the river mouth is most needed right now.

2. come up with some better solutions for the 8 lane monstrosities that tear up grant park, while at the same time also leaving ample room for the large festivals hosted there.

3. pull the parks over stretches of lake shore drive. what i mean by this is that in an ideal world, instead of just having wimpy little ped bridges traverse the expressway, i envision, every mile or so, 500' wide fully landscaped bridges that would give the illusion that the park crawls up and over LSD at certain points, while still preserving most of the dramatic views that make driving up and down LSD so special.

I agree with you there! I think having the parks extend over lakshore drive would be awesome! Especially from an aerial view that would be awesome and it would add to our parkspace as well! I love it!

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Chicagoguy

And as for the comment made about NIMBY's being the reason why Lincoln Park cant get a hotel or something...look at Lincoln Park 2520 which is likely to break ground very soon...if that can get approved so could a hotel of the same of similar height!

I'm not sure that you fully appreciate how big a deal it was for the Lincoln Park 2520 development to get to where it is today. I'm not exaggerating when I say this development has been on the books for going on 10 years, and it's only just now getting ready to start real construction. In order to get approval, it involved:

- making the units so large as to mean the units/acre is lower than every other highrise in the area
- providing so much open space behind the building so as to make the highrise have the lowest overall floor area ratio of highrises in the whole area (I think the FAR is something in the 7-10 range)
- providing 3 parking spaces per unit
- demolition of dozens of units of existing housing in addition to the hospital site, meaning the net increase in housing units was fairly small and that the overall traffic demand in the area decreased dramatically from switching the land use from hospital (high traffic) to residential (low traffic).

I see no way a developer could come in and propose a 400-room hotel along Lincoln Park and get it approved with the level of NIMBY fervor.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

1. better access - both through ped. bridges and underpasses (especially southside) and through transit improvements, although i realize the words "transit expansion" are seemingly verboten in chicago. a new ped/bike bridge at the river mouth is most needed right now.

2. come up with some better solutions for the 8 lane monstrosities that tear up grant park, while at the same time also leaving ample room for the large festivals hosted there.

3. pull the parks over stretches of lake shore drive. what i mean by this is that in an ideal world, instead of just having wimpy little ped bridges traverse the expressway, i envision, every mile or so, 500' wide fully landscaped bridges that would give the illusion that the park crawls up and over LSD at certain points, while still preserving most of the dramatic views that make driving up and down LSD so special.

Yeah, increasingly the accessibility of the lakefront never hurts, but there are really only a few areas with this is necessary; in most locations, there is already access at least every 1/2 mile, which is a reasonable target, with access every 1/4 mile in downtown being appropriate. What I find additionally compelling about the notion of "malling" Columbus and taking out traffic is that when it's closed, traffic on Lakeshore Drive still flows just fine, even during Grant Park festivals. Columbus is really not needed to meet traffic demand in the area. Imagine what could be done if Columbus were turned into a grand pedestrian promenade that could also still function as host to the various summer festivals.

Regarding building parks over LSD, I would sooner focus on building parks over the hideous sunken expressways with lots of truck traffic: the Dan Ryan from 31st-63rd, the Kennedy between the Circle and Hubbard's Cave, and much of the Eisenhower. Lake Shore Drive, given the lack of trucks, isn't so loud and smoggy as compared to the expressways, and thus isn't nearly as oppressive a barrier (as evidenced by the insane volume of people using it on the north side, as you point out).

[cbotnyse]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

1. better access - both through ped. bridges and underpasses (especially southside) and through transit improvements, although i realize the words "transit expansion" are seemingly verboten in chicago. a new ped/bike bridge at the river mouth is most needed right now.

2. come up with some better solutions for the 8 lane monstrosities that tear up grant park, while at the same time also leaving ample room for the large festivals hosted there.

3. pull the parks over stretches of lake shore drive. what i mean by this is that in an ideal world, instead of just having wimpy little ped bridges traverse the expressway, i envision, every mile or so, 500' wide fully landscaped bridges that would give the illusion that the park crawls up and over LSD at certain points, while still preserving most of the dramatic views that make driving up and down LSD so special.

I just had this conversation with my brother last week as we went to the Taste. I say reduce Columbus to one lane in each direction and make the speed limit 20 mph. If you really think about it Columbus is such a travesty to Grant Park. I wouldnt even call it heavily used, does it really need to be 8 friggen lanes???. Rarely do I see it with bumper to bumper traffic.

I also love your idea of pulling the park over LSD. The pedestrian access to the lake from Roosevelt to Navy Pier is non-existent.

Lets get a grass roots petition going and get this done!

[honte]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

What I find additionally compelling about the notion of "malling" Columbus and taking out traffic is that when it's closed, traffic on Lakeshore Drive still flows just fine, even during Grant Park festivals. Columbus is really not needed to meet traffic demand in the area. Imagine what could be done if Columbus were turned into a grand pedestrian promenade that could also still function as host to the various summer festivals.

Totally disagree with you there... from personal experience. When Columbus closes, I feel the impact in a major way on LSD, but I also feel it all the way over on the Dan Ryan. I know you've probably got some kind of numbers, but I've had hours and hours sitting there to think about this.

Taking out the traffic light on LSD at Buckingham Fountain also has had a major improvement on traffic flow.

[nomarandlee]

I gave this suggestion awhile ago but never got any replies (maybe that is an indicator of the stink of the idea). What about an offshore island (2-10 miles away or MAYBE Northerly Island) that is completely pedestrian but is kind of an dense urban summer getaway. I am thinking a kind of mix between the Toronto Islands, Mackinaw Island, Monaco, with a lot of vintage Chicago housing stock mixed with highly modern architecture with a healthy mix of eco/green elements. It could have its own marina and beach and I am guessing we could come up with something better then fudge the island staple. Yea, its FAR fetched but I think it could have potential once past some of the greenies.

I was thinking if not an offshore island Goose Island long in the future could make also be made something akin to this.

[cbotnyse]

Originally Posted by honte

Totally disagree with you there... from personal experience. When Columbus closes, I feel the impact in a major way on LSD, but I also feel it all the way over on the Dan Ryan. I know you've probably got some kind of numbers, but I've had hours and hours sitting there to think about this.

Taking out the traffic light on LSD at Buckingham Fountain also has had a major improvement on traffic flow.

in my personal experience I've never felt LSD was greatly affected when Columbus closes. I've sat in LSD traffic longer sometimes when Columbus was open. I travel LSD or Columbus almost everyday and there is no way Columus needs to be 8 lanes, considering it cuts directly throught the middle of our grandest park.....get rid of it!!!

[TheBigHurt]

Originally Posted by Chicagoguy

So I was sitting here tonight with a group of friends...some from both here in Chicago and New York City. We got on the topic somehow of things that could be done to improve the city/make the city a more desirable place to live. These are some of the things we talked about and I was wondering if anything of this nature had been brought up in the past or thought about?

*Taking better advantage of our great lakefront...ie more piers and things of that sort. We have an amazing lakefront that very few cities get the chance to have and it seems like we just arent taking advantage of it the way we should. Look at NY for example, they have so many peirs with different attractions on their bayfront...we should do more things like that. Maybe a casino peir, a peir with a mall maybe...more shopping, and just more fun attractions to bring people out to the lake. Right now we are doing great with all of the lake front parks, beaches, and bike paths...but it would be cool to expand that!

*Trying harder to establish more high rises in the Lincoln Park area. Our city is blessed with this amazing park and it just seems like it gets lost among other things in the city. People try and compare Grant/Millenium Park to Central Park in NYC, but it is nothing close to that. Lincoln Park is beautiful and actually very simialar to Central Park in its qualities and such. We just wish more would be done to bring more people to that area of the city...and I dont mean to build things in the park either like they keep doing in Millenium...maybe a few Luxury Hotels, more shopping, and more park front restaurants would do alot!

Those are just a couple of our ideas we came up with so I thought I would share them with the rest of you! Please comment on what you think!

Responding to your first bullet:

I am not living in the area, but I do visit Chicago often to see my brother. One of Chicago's best draws is the beauty and tranquility of the lakefront. I live outside of NYC. It is perfectly fine to build on the Hudson and East rivers because the only views being stolen are of Jersey City and the other boroughs--nothing scenic like Lake Michigan. If a monstrosity like Chelsea Piers was built in Chicago, I would probably call it a public disaster.

[the urban politician]

I agree with those of you who like the lakefront as it is--tranquil, less commercial. I was lucky enough to have lived and jogged daily right along Chicago's south lakefront, and in part it is this wonderful experience about Chicago that I continue to carry with me.

[Chicagoguy]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

I'm not sure that you fully appreciate how big a deal it was for the Lincoln Park 2520 development to get to where it is today. I'm not exaggerating when I say this development has been on the books for going on 10 years, and it's only just now getting ready to start real construction. In order to get approval, it involved:

- making the units so large as to mean the units/acre is lower than every other highrise in the area
- providing so much open space behind the building so as to make the highrise have the lowest overall floor area ratio of highrises in the whole area (I think the FAR is something in the 7-10 range)
- providing 3 parking spaces per unit
- demolition of dozens of units of existing housing in addition to the hospital site, meaning the net increase in housing units was fairly small and that the overall traffic demand in the area decreased dramatically from switching the land use from hospital (high traffic) to residential (low traffic).

I see no way a developer could come in and propose a 400-room hotel along Lincoln Park and get it approved with the level of NIMBY fervor.

I actually do understand completely...it was ahard task to accomplish and that is why it is one of the first high rises to be put up in Lincoln Park in so so so long! This project will be huge and even though it took a long time...it is my favorite project going up in the city right now! I know it would take along time to do...but learn from Lincoln Park 2520...I think it will pave the way for more like it to come in the future if things play out well!

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by honte

Totally disagree with you there... from personal experience. When Columbus closes, I feel the impact in a major way on LSD, but I also feel it all the way over on the Dan Ryan. I know you've probably got some kind of numbers, but I've had hours and hours sitting there to think about this.

Taking out the traffic light on LSD at Buckingham Fountain also has had a major improvement on traffic flow.

Hmm OK. Actually I don't have authoritative/conclusive numbers handy, just going on my anecdotal experience. I've found driving LSD during the summer fests (such as recently, during the Taste) to be no worse than a normal busy weekend when Columbus is open, and it's often actually noticeably faster. Spillover onto the Ryan does seem plausible, but given the recent major capacity expansion on the Ryan I wonder if it can easily handle it?

Sort of an academic point though, since no one at any level of authority has suggested permanent closure of Columbus anytime soon.

[wrab]

The closest counterpart to Central Park in Chicago isn't Lincoln Park IMHO but Jackson Park on the South Side. And some of the skyline views are killer, like looking at the Emerald City, or Atlantis - almost unreal.

The great lakefront travesty to my eye is the 2-mile stretch of LSD that inartfully cuts off Streeterville/Goldcoast from the lake for, like, the sake of three exits. Primo real estate. Awesome potential.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by honte

Totally disagree with you there... from personal experience. When Columbus closes, I feel the impact in a major way on LSD, but I also feel it all the way over on the Dan Ryan. I know you've probably got some kind of numbers, but I've had hours and hours sitting there to think about this.

Taking out the traffic light on LSD at Buckingham Fountain also has had a major improvement on traffic flow.

I'm sure it affects traffic, but lets not forget that the reasons Columbus gets closed are almost always reasons that also involve drawing hundreds of thousands of additional people downtown.

I'm not sure you can easily separate the traffic impact of closing one street with the traffic impact of adding a huge traffic generator.

[wrab]

Originally Posted by honte

.....Taking out the traffic light on LSD at Buckingham Fountain also has had a major improvement on traffic flow.

Good perhaps for vehicular traffic, but bad for pedestrian traffic, at what could & should be an important pedestrian thoroughfare to & from the Lake.

[honte]

^ Sure, never said that it was the ultimate solution. But I like to look at both sides of the coin. Burial of LSD through Grant Park would be the ultimate solution ... something that probably will happen one day.

[Chicago Shawn]

Originally Posted by spyguy

http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.a...93&TM=4147.833

Transit oriented means taller in Logan Square
Milwaukee master plan calls for denser development

By TIMOTHY INKLEBARGER

Logan Square residents got their first look at a draft long-term development plan for Milwaukee Avenue on Tuesday. While some praised the plan, others said it calls for buildings that are too tall and dense.

The Milwaukee Avenue Corridor Plan lays out development guidelines for the stretch of Milwaukee from Western to California.

One section of the plan that turned into a hot-button issue at the Tuesday meeting, held at the Congress Theater in Logan Square, calls for transit-oriented developments at the El stops at Western and California. Such developments are typically taller and denser-about seven to 14 stories-and are located within a quarter mile of the train station. With El stations at California and Western, the quarter mile boundary could include much of the corridor.

HELL YES!!!! And the alderman is pushing for it too. This is one of those uncommon moments where aldermanic perogitive is used for the good of the community. In this case getting outside consultants for a planning charratte crafted by people who know what they are doing. I love the alderman's comment "are we going to commit to sustainability? If so, we must not be affriad." That's right folks, it takes more than screwing in CFL bulbs to reduce carbon emmissions; so stop being so damn selfish. The green wagon is getting crowded as people are jumping on, but the average person only will do so much, including looking out to protect thier view. Transit oreinted development everywhere in this city would be the absolute greenest thing anyone could avocate for.


On the lakefront note, keep it open. The last thing we need is commercialization. The lakefront is used amazingly well, and certinally has additional capacity, although the bike path should be widened to probably 20-25 feet in some spots. Despite its heavy use, the park system still has lots of quiet spots, one of my favorites is Montrose Point, which I spent yesterday afternoon at. I would like to see us continue to rehape the shoreline and increase the park space as people continue to it use more as ever greater numbers of people move in from the suburbs. I really want to see some of those off shore islands built at some point in the future.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

I see no reason why the lakefront has to be commercialized, in light of the many awesome commercial districts that are very close to the lakefront parks anyway.

First, because people LOVE the lake, as evidenced by the popularity of Navy Pier. It is the biggest tourist attraction in the state. Ergo, there is a huge demand for things to do near the water. (Also consider what city projects could become possible with additional $$$ revenue from this.) And since there exist elderly people, handicapped people, tired people with kids, people who don't like frostbite, etc., not everyone is interested in biking or jogging - they want restaurants and other activities.

Second, the business district is not "very close" to the lake for most businesspeople (the lake is 1/2 mile from State St). Both business visitors as well as working locals (a huge portion of whom only do the daily trudge from Metra to an office tower) deserve a little more interaction with the lake, in a way that's compatible with the busy schedules that many people have to deal with. Having more restaurants, entertainment, hotel, office (in roughly that order of importance and appropriateness) would give more people more chances to get to the lake. Right now, there are really only a few choices that could potentially bring someone to the lake during the course of doing business; one of them is too touristy (Navy Pier); a couple others aren't even right on the lake (Drake or W).

Obviously nobody is arguing to "commercialize the lakefront" entirely. Rather, contemplate allowing development along just, say, a couple carefully designated blocks' worth. Conjuring up one image, take for example a boardwalk with a narrow low-rise restaurant building running a block or two between Randolph and Wacker along the shore east of LSD (no interruption of lakefront trail). Or something similar accessible by a short extension of Wacker past LSD. Maybe combine with a hotel, with a ballroom that makes it feel like you can reach out and touch the lake and boats. Ever been a guest to eat at either of the 2 yacht clubs downtown? Taking in the spectacular views, with the tranquil (or ferocious) lake at one's side, over a leisurely meal, is something everybody should have a chance to enjoy, without special connections or massive planning or fuss.

We need to sell Chicago to outsiders more aggressively. Too many people on the coasts, and overseas, have no idea that Chicago is on Lake Michigan, nor how impressive and beautiful the lake is. There need to be more opportunities for outsiders to encounter, to accidentally discover, to spend time near the lake - especially business visitors (tourists less so, because by definition they're already in Chicago by choice) who can be influential down the road whether economically or in the media or otherwise. Eventually Chicago's image becomes more associated with the lake, and we better distinguish ourselves, in the greater public's mind, versus Vegas, Orlando, Atlanta, Dallas, Charlotte, and other fast-growing (and landlocked) cities.

[spyguy]

On the site of the Sears Auto Center
13 story, 160 unit building facing Lawrence with three levels of retail
50 townhome units on the northern part of the site
4 story parking garage in between both developments

[Chicago3rd]

Originally Posted by spyguy

On the site of the Sears Auto Center
13 story, 160 unit building facing Lawrence with three levels of retail
50 townhome units on the northern part of the site
4 story parking garage in between both developments

Thanks God!!! I was wondering why they shored up the banks of the railroad area last year! Whew!