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  #13641  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2017, 10:23 PM
tjp tjp is offline
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Rahm said in that editorial that Chicago's economy has grown faster than the national average the past 5 years ... by what measure? City-proper GDP?
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  #13642  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2017, 10:29 PM
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Rahm said in that editorial that Chicago's economy has grown faster than the national average the past 5 years ... by what measure? City-proper GDP?
Must be. He wouldn't be talking about metropolitan area statistics.
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  #13643  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 6:38 AM
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Curbed - Petition to Restore Green Line to Jackson Park

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Online petition calls on the CTA to restore the 63rd Street branch of the Green Line

Greater transit connectivity to Jackson Park’s upcoming Obama Library is needed, argues the petition’s author
by Jay Koziarz Jul 11, 2017, 1:36pm CDT

With the Obama Presidential Center and companion projects such as the new Tiger Woods golf course headed to Chicago’s Jackson Park, calls to bring better public transit to the South Side are growing louder and more persistent. Claiming that existing CTA bus service and the Metra electric line are insufficient to meet the expected demand, a newly-launched online petition is making the case to rebuild the 63rd Street branch of Green Line ‘L’ tracks.
Quote:
If the CTA ever considered restoring the tracks, “there has never been a better time,” argues the petition’s author Reuben Lillie. Once a satisfactory number of signatures are collected, Lillie plans to deliver the following recommendations to Chicago Mayor Rahm Emmanuel and 16 other key decision-makers:

A joint planning committee be formed, comprised of an equal number of elected or appointed government officials and specially elected or appointed local representatives from Hyde Park, South Shore, Washington Park, and Woodlawn plus one representative each on behalf of the Obama Foundation and the University of Chicago.

- As much as possible, the original materials currently stored at the 61st Street Yard be salvaged and used in construction.

- Two-way boarding be re-established at King.

- At least two new, strategically located stations be installed between Cottage Grove and Stony Island, as was the case with stops originally at Lexington (now University) and Madison (now Dorchester).

- An additional study be conducted toward reinstating either or both the 58th and 61st stations or otherwise strategically located stops between Garfield and Cottage Grove.

- Designs for all new and renovated stations celebrate their locations and are accessible to persons with disabilities.

- Designs for the new Stony Island terminus and the new bridge over the Illinois Central Railroad right of way be harmonized with and incorporated into the plans for the Obama Presidential Center.

- In lieu of tax dollars, as much of the needed funding as possible come from other sources including but not limited to the Obama Foundation and other public–private partnerships.
A link to the petition is here.
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  #13644  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 1:49 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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^^^ Honestly though, fuck the red line extension. Just put the Green line back the way it was supposed to be, it would serve far more people over a much shorter route as well as having the added benefit of connecting the Obama Library and serving U of C.
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  #13645  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 3:34 PM
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^I can't imagine a Green Line restored to Stony Island would attract more than 100 new riders a day.
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  #13646  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 5:04 PM
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^I can't imagine a Green Line restored to Stony Island would attract more than 100 new riders a day.
The most successful presidential libraries (Reagan, Kennedy, Clinton) attract about 1000 visitors on the average day. That plus the ~4000 daily visitors at MSI gives you 5000 daily museum goers in Jackson Park.

Many of these visitors will be suburbanites in minivans or school groups in buses, but even if only 10% of visitors take public transit, that's 500 potential riders who would probably prefer a rail ride from downtown over a bus, no matter how express.

I still don't know if it's worth building 1 mile of new rail line for only 500 riders initially, but in the long-term I still think it's a good idea to bring rail to these major attractions and establish a Jefferson Park or Davis St-esque transfer from Metra to CTA. Woodlawn is already showing promising signs of redevelopment that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago, even as other South Side neighborhoods like Bronzeville, Washington Park and South Shore stagnate or decline. A new transit hub could really kick Woodlawn into high gear.
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  #13647  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 8:49 PM
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But a new terminus at 63rd & Stony Island leaves those MSI patrons a full mile from the museum entrance.

I can see the logic of a new transit hub at 55th & Woodlawn, or at 71st & Jeffery. But not in the middle of a big park where no one lives.
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  #13648  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 9:59 PM
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More like 3/4 of a mile if, as expected, MSI re-opens their southern entrance on the lagoon.

Those are valid critiques, though. Maybe the tail of the Green Line could bend north using excess space in the IC right-of-way, and end at a terminus on the Midway? Then U of C would actually have an L stop on campus, and the station would be easy walking distance to both the Obama Library and MSI. It would add track length and some cost, but it should be relatively cheap to use the existing space on top of the viaduct.

You could also put a second station in the middle at 63rd/Woodlawn Ave for some TOD housing. Not much point to a station at Dorchester or Stony when 1/2rd of the land there is controlled by schools and churches and their attached parking lots/athletic fields.
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  #13649  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2017, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
More like 3/4 of a mile if, as expected, MSI re-opens their southern entrance on the lagoon.

Those are valid critiques, though. Maybe the tail of the Green Line could bend north using excess space in the IC right-of-way, and end at a terminus on the Midway? Then U of C would actually have an L stop on campus, and the station would be easy walking distance to both the Obama Library and MSI. Could also put a second station in the middle at Woodlawn Ave.
Like this. I put it to 55th, because I think that'd be useful, but you could stop at 59th with a large station spanning the Midway and entrances on both sides.


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  #13650  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 2:05 PM
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Why East Woodlawn needs its El Back
http://southsideunited.org/why-east-...ds-its-l-back/
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  #13651  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 10:34 PM
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^A rather breathtaking victimization narrative:

The city has always been quick to destroy infrastructure in African American neighborhoods. Woodlawn’s rows upon rows of vacant lots attest to that. Housing, retail, and just about anything else that the city could get its hands on started coming down shortly after the riots in Woodlawn over the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in 1968. On the West Side, where most of the rioting at that time took place, the blocks pockmarked with vacant lots bear a striking resemblance to streets in Woodlawn.

Arthur Brazier understood that there is a deep satisfaction that racist white politicians and voters get in taking away resources from African American communities.
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  #13652  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2017, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
^A rather breathtaking victimization narrative:

The city has always been quick to destroy infrastructure in African American neighborhoods. Woodlawn’s rows upon rows of vacant lots attest to that. Housing, retail, and just about anything else that the city could get its hands on started coming down shortly after the riots in Woodlawn over the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in 1968. On the West Side, where most of the rioting at that time took place, the blocks pockmarked with vacant lots bear a striking resemblance to streets in Woodlawn.

Arthur Brazier understood that there is a deep satisfaction that racist white politicians and voters get in taking away resources from African American communities.
I noticed that tone in the article as well. The author really pushing buttons, he must know his audience.
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  #13653  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 2:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
^A rather breathtaking victimization narrative:

The city has always been quick to destroy infrastructure in African American neighborhoods. Woodlawn’s rows upon rows of vacant lots attest to that. Housing, retail, and just about anything else that the city could get its hands on started coming down shortly after the riots in Woodlawn over the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in 1968. On the West Side, where most of the rioting at that time took place, the blocks pockmarked with vacant lots bear a striking resemblance to streets in Woodlawn.

Arthur Brazier understood that there is a deep satisfaction that racist white politicians and voters get in taking away resources from African American communities.
I'm sorry, what?? This type of perspective is breathtakingly shameful. Lack of opportunity or rescission of the same is not about victimization, especially when the status quo in Chicago has clearly shown apathy or even downright hatred towards people of color for decades. The notion that only a handful of people would use any part of a future extension is completely disregarding any potential future development that is already planned for the immediate vicinity. Transit planning is for the future, and should NOT be representative of current usage models - not sure why this is such a difficult idea to understand.
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  #13654  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 3:38 PM
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^Clearly it must have been the "deep satisfaction that racist white politicians and voters get in taking away resources from African American communities" that prompted complete reconstruction of the Green Line in 1996-97, a line that runs parallel to another rail line only a half-mile away, and whose ridership is so low that 30 CTA bus lines each carry more people.

Think for a moment about the unusual worldview one has to have to make the actions taken by a black minister and his large congregation, in 1990, entirely the fault of white people.
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  #13655  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 4:05 PM
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I wasn't conscious of these issues in 1990, so it's hard to say which version of events is correct.

Despite the accusations of racism that the author lobbed, I don't think the blog post makes Brazier look very good... it essentially makes him out to be an Uncle Tom who sells out the community and removes a vital lifeline in order to build his own monument. His congregants drive everywhere, they probably wouldn't be caught dead on the L, unlike the poorer residents of Woodlawn.

The arguments about white racism are not even really germane to the discussion. Daley (broadly) came to power by building a coalition of white ethnics and Latino immigrants. At least in the early days of the administration, he probably didn't understand nuances within the black community, so when an influential minister came to him with a request, he just assumed that said minister spoke for the entire community.

This is hardly unique, many white leaders rely on black middlemen (often ministers) to give them counsel about a complicated reality within the overall black community, even when those middlemen offer a skewed or limited perspective.
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  #13656  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I wasn't conscious of these issues in 1990, so it's hard to say which version of events is correct.

I don't think the blog post makes Brazier look very good... it essentially makes him out to be an Uncle Tom who sells out the community and removes a vital lifeline in order to build his own monument. His congregants drive everywhere, they probably wouldn't be caught dead on the L, unlike the poorer residents of Woodlawn.
It doesn't make him look good though it is partially accurate, however it is much more nuanced then this, given Brazier Sr. passed away 6-7 years ago or so.

I would attend services when I was in college 15-18 years back with a close friend who still goes- and his church which is a magnificent congregation- but he would say in Bible Studies that he believed in his heart of hearts that the L brought a negative element to the neighborhood and it was his mission as a Community Leader to makes his church a true anchor for the Woodlawn neighborhood and have members reinvest back into the community. He would tell of stories of him talking about when he'd work for the Post Office riding the L to Moody Bible Institute for his Theology Doctorate and reflecting on the importance of the L and what transportation meant to his congregation but he wasn't going to settle for a lower class design.

As the two of us were Architecture majors we were surprised by that and asked him politely and showed him ideas like what they've done in Berlin with an elevated structure with ground floor retail underneath what 63rd Street could look like, his eyes beamed and said paraphrasing "If the city or CTA had presented an idea like this to him with some thought and not the steel erector set that it is now and rendered, I would have supported it."

http://www.chicago-l.org/stations/dorchester.html

http://www.chicago-l.org/articles/woodlawn1.html
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  #13657  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 5:27 PM
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^ Huh? So it's either high class urban design or parking lots and strip malls?

Utter BS.

It's arbitrary shit like this that prevents meaningful, market rate investment in the south side. You have effectively destroyed the urban streetscape that is now in such high demand.

I know I'm going to get shit for this, but it's high time that people of a different vocation than clergy be the strongest voice for many communities down there. Clergy have had their 100 year run and all they do is beg some imaginary being to fix everything (so far hasn't worked). There needs to be a practical, real world approach to addressing disinvestment. And having some self-centered asshat demolish a critical piece of infrastructure is FAR from it. Very sad.
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  #13658  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2017, 5:52 PM
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^ Huh? So it's either high class urban design or parking lots and strip malls?

Utter BS.

It's arbitrary shit like this that prevents meaningful, market rate investment in the south side. You have effectively destroyed the urban streetscape that is now in such high demand.

I know I'm going to get shit for this, but it's high time that people of a different vocation than clergy be the strongest voice for many communities down there. Clergy have had their 100 year run and all they do is beg some imaginary being to fix everything (so far hasn't worked). There needs to be a practical, real world approach to addressing disinvestment. And having some self-centered asshat demolish a critical piece of infrastructure is FAR from it. Very sad.
Guess what folks? The church is still there and will not leave anytime soon and given the Museum is planned to be near this church could make an argument that the proximity to the ACOG and University of Chicago Campuses are key reasons of it's placement there. (Of course this is for argument sake not to start a flame war)

With an older Civil Rights advocate like Brazier, respect is more important than anything else because he has a point because if there was some creativity from the on-set to come up with a design/plan with the community given the end point and its importance you can alleviate the pitfalls early on, rather than the lump it or leave it approach that many city bureaucrats try to enforce. I would argue as I've seen in my own backyard in LA, I did this on a regular basis in LA to help pass a $120B funding measure while dealing with similar issues, the core is get the conversation going and have respect for the communities you serve and don't feed community leaders and neighbors a bunch of bullshit.

Having many different backgrounds and voices is what makes a community work and that is missing however now the time has come to move forward from that point. BTW has there been a lot of new development around the Green Line modernization south of 35th Street, 20 years later? Besides that issue at Woodlawn there are other sites along the way that could have been slated for a series of developments but has not had the investment. Could these perceptions of the design of the structure and the noise they generate play a part?

This is still going to be true IF a Green Line extension is to move forward is to think constructively and creatively to solve the problem. So you have a petition, that's a start but given that is coming, be smart about it hire a few minority architects to come up with design charettes that take place at the Church and you will see hearts and minds change. There are loads of improvements that can be accomplished in that area from at the start a thorough modernization of that ratty ass 63rd Street Metra Station with a transit center and hub.
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Last edited by WrightCONCEPT; Jul 15, 2017 at 6:10 PM.
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  #13659  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2017, 3:47 AM
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Well, the petition calls for said structures to be harmonized with the design of the Obama Center. Not sure what that means, given that the library looks like a Mayan pyramid, but there you have it.

I don't know what CTA is legally obligated to do regarding the stored construction materials. Certainly it would save a LOT of money to re-use them, even if the end result looks a lot like the original structure that was so hated by Brazier. The foundations are still in the ground, too. Given the realities of city and state funding, I'm not sure CTA can afford not to take every cost savings they can get. On the other hand, I'm not sure what condition those materials are in after sitting through 25 years of Chicago weather...

I've been impressed that CTA partnered with Theaster Gates for the 95th St station, and he is re-imagining the old 55th stationhouse in conjunction with U of C, so there is an attempt to listen and include black voices in the discussion under the Emanuel administration. One of Rahm's favorite things is to impress South Siders with flashy transportation projects.

Quote:
BTW has there been a lot of new development around the Green Line modernization south of 35th Street, 20 years later? Besides that issue at Woodlawn there are other sites along the way that could have been slated for a series of developments but has not had the investment. Could these perceptions of the design of the structure and the noise they generate play a part?
I doubt it. Green Line north of 63rd is elevated, but runs on a private alignment. It's exactly like all the L structures on the North Side, which don't put a crimp on development. The reasons for disinvestment have nothing to do with the design of transit structures. Woodlawn is already becoming desirable because of its proximity to U of C and spillover from Hyde Park. The L won't push Woodlawn or any other neighborhood over the hump, but it can be an impetus to develop more densely as it unlocks TOD zoning. The redevelopment doesn't have to be all single-family homes.
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Last edited by ardecila; Jul 16, 2017 at 3:59 AM.
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  #13660  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2017, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I've been impressed that CTA partnered with Theaster Gates for the 95th St station, and he is re-imagining the old 55th stationhouse in conjunction with U of C, so there is an attempt to listen and include black voices in the discussion under the Emanuel administration. One of Rahm's favorite things is to impress South Siders with flashy transportation projects.
Now take that approach here with this extension and I think the younger (well relatively speaking for 67 now) Byron Brazier will be pragmatic to those ideas and find a way to make it work.

Quote:
Green Line north of 63rd is elevated, but runs on a private alignment. It's exactly like all the L structures on the North Side, which don't put a crimp on development. The reasons for disinvestment have nothing to do with the design of transit structures. Woodlawn is already becoming desirable because of its proximity to U of C and spillover from Hyde Park. The L won't push Woodlawn or any other neighborhood over the hump, but it can be an impetus to develop more densely as it unlocks TOD zoning. The redevelopment doesn't have to be all single-family homes.
Just curious, what factors do you see as reason(s) why this type of TOD zoning has not occurred or developed for the Green Line on the South and even Western Legs on Lake Street from Cicero to maybe California?
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