How widespread are the homeless/mental health/addiction issues in your city/province?

[giallo]

East Hastings currently. The fire marshal has ordered the tents to be removed, so that'll change soon.

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[theman23]

Do they not always have tents on East Hastings?

[Al Ski]

I'm thinking that funding mental health initiatives and providing affordable housing would be a good idea..

But the U.S. has ordered us to spend 2% of our budget on American arms in order to support their numerous forever wars, proxy or otherwise.

So what do I know?

I guess we just have to take our orders and comply.

And waste billions of $$ on U.S. military crap that we don't need.

Compliant, order-taking Canadians that we are..

[Bishop2047]

One thing that I am sure we will adopt at some point is the American 988 mental health/illness hotline.

New initiative but soon will be mandated in all states (similar to 911).

HUGE infrastructure changes are needed to get this program where is it envisioned to be, but hey 911 took a few decades to catch on too.

https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/988


Another project that I am hoping to see expand is peer support programs within Emergency Rooms. The project seems to have been a hit in Calgary, and also provides employment for persons who might otherwise struggle to find something that their experiences qualify them for. Someone who not only knows how to navigate government systems, but navigate the drug/homeless/mentally ill world is invaluable.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by theman23

Do they not always have tents on East Hastings?

Maybe the odd tent, nothing like that (and down side streets).

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by giallo

East Hastings currently. The fire marshal has ordered the tents to be removed, so that'll change soon.

• Video Link

fuck that is depressing. Reminds me of the wretched tent cities of 135A street in Surrey of yesteryear. I used to work a couple of blocks away from this tent city.

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[SignalHillHiker]

Only thing close to that I’ve seen has been in the States. Rounded a corner in Boston and the entire street was like the floor of a stadium in a disaster. Just tip-toeing around sleeping bodies and bundles of belongings.

[Acajack]

Since I guess this is what passes for a "societal decline" thread on here...

Yesterday I went to my local telecom (wireless, Internet, cable TV) shop here in suburban Gatineau and noticed that I had to buzz to get in, after which they came and unlocked the door to let me enter. They then locked the door behind me, and someone had to unlock to let me out as well.

I'd never seen anything like this before (outside of really high-end jewellery stores in a downtown, and even then...) so I asked about it.

The employee said that their chain had seen a rash of armed robberies and smash and grab theft recently, which explained the new security measures.

And this is a chain that basically operates only in Quebec, so we're not talking about cross-pollination with US issues and hysteria.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Since I guess this is what passes for a "societal decline" thread on here...

Yesterday I went to my local telecom (wireless, Internet, cable TV) shop here in suburban Gatineau and noticed that I had to buzz to get in, after which they came and unlocked the door to let me enter. They then locked the door behind me, and someone had to unlock to let me out as well.

I'd never seen anything like this before (outside of really high-end jewellery stores in a downtown, and even then...) so I asked about it.

The employee said that their chain had seen a rash of armed robberies and smash and grab theft recently, which explained the new security measures.

And this is a chain that basically operates only in Quebec, so we're not talking about cross-pollination with US issues and hysteria.

This seems to be a trend everywhere in North America right now. There's definitely a bit of a societal breakdown happening at the moment. I think it was coming sooner or later, but COVID helped speed things up.

[MonctonRad]

There are a few stores like that in downtown Moncton too (on Main Street). You have to be buzzed in. This is because of increasing problems with aggressive derelicts wandering in, being threatening and intimidating the staff (and customers).

Homelessness, vagrancy, petty crime and drug use is reaching epidemic levels in some downtown areas of the city. The citizenry is getting very upset by it all.

[Acajack]

I just wanted to point out that that there is no vagrancy or homelessness whatsoever on the stretch of suburban boulevard where this happened.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by giallo

This seems to be a trend everywhere in North America right now. There's definitely a bit of a societal breakdown happening at the moment. I think it was coming sooner or later, but COVID helped speed things up.

The societal breakdown seems to be among lower-class white men, from my anecdotal (yes, I know) experience. Homeless person standing at a stoplight most of the time? White guy.

Some spitballing as to why:

Men are just more Darwinian to their less useful compatriots. Maybe it's an evolutionary trait (and not a good one per se), but the attitude of men towards other less motivated men has always been one of scorn. I suspect it was a more military-like attitude to motivate other men (A boot in the ass always works!) under harsher conditions. It just now serves to isolate them, I suppose.

The erosion of community supports. Not in a governmental sense, but the idea that people are part of a community - church, fraternal organizations, whatever. That seems stronger among the immigrant community (perhaps why fewer of them slip through cracks) but has seemingly faded among the long-term locals. So, yeah, when one loses their sense of place in something bigger, one kind of ends up in bad places.

Then there's the other things we've discussed: Housing/rent prices inflating, making bottom-feeder rentals a poor business. The lack of mental health facilities. Addiction issues.

Mix it all together and it's not a problem that easy to solve.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by thewave46

The societal breakdown seems to be among lower-class white men, from my anecdotal (yes, I know) experience. Homeless person standing at a stoplight most of the time? White guy.

Some spitballing as to why:

Men are just more Darwinian to their less useful compatriots. Maybe it's an evolutionary trait (and not a good one per se), but the attitude of men towards other less motivated men has always been one of scorn. I suspect it was a more military-like attitude to motivate other men (A boot in the ass always works!) under harsher conditions. It just now serves to isolate them, I suppose.

Stereotyping a bit, but men are more Darwinian at/towards men on the lower rungs, while women are more Darwinian toward other women on the upper rungs of society.

Apart from men and women who are basically unemployable, the lowest-skilled jobs for men are much more likely to lead to chronic pain and the addiction to painkillers/opioids than the lowest-skilled jobs aimed at women. Our gender norms haven't evolved to the point - especially among the underclass - where low-skilled and in-demand jobs aimed at women, like being a PSW, are dignifying to men, and men really need dignity in their lives. So being a day labourer in construction or moving boxes, or a job with repetitive stress motion that nobody should be doing past the age of 40 it is.

The erosion of community supports. Not in a governmental sense, but the idea that people are part of a community - church, fraternal organizations, whatever. That seems stronger among the immigrant community (perhaps why fewer of them slip through cracks) but has seemingly faded among the long-term locals. So, yeah, when one loses their sense of place in something bigger, one kind of ends up in bad places.

This is a huge problem, and one that government can't solve. It's a "spiritual" or "emotional" crisis, while government welfare can only address material shortcomings. The church, for all it faults, was able to do both - it could provide material supports through tithes/donations, and it offered a sense of community to its worshippers, and often its community cut across class lines.

Then there's the other things we've discussed: Housing/rent prices inflating, making bottom-feeder rentals a poor business. The lack of mental health facilities. Addiction issues.

Okay, while rent is a problem for some, I honestly don't think rent prices are as big a problem as the media makes it out to be.

Canada's housing affordability problem mostly affects young professionals who are trying to purchase their first home, and not poor people just looking for a roof over their heads. In the US, the second problem is definitely more dire, and it's sad that it affects both people in high cost places like California, but even low income renters in places where housing (to buy) is practically free, like inner city Detroit or St. Louis. Of course, somebody who lives paycheque to paycheque, does all their financial transactions at MoneyMart and has no credit history can't even buy a $10,000 house, so they're stuck renting a rat-infested shithole at American rents (which are higher than in Canada for similar housing quality in similar metros).

Poor people make concessions when it comes to housing that don't usually show up in official statistics. If you're a single poor person, you don't base your shelter costs on the median 1 BR rental price reported by CMHC and live by yourself in a suite with full amenities. You rent a bedroom in a home with roommates; you couch surf (this is precarious, but better than being "hard homeless"); you shack up with a partner that you might not have been prepared to shack up with.

Even today, with inflation and low wages, living on the streets is a desperate last resort that anybody who doesn't face mental challenges and the ability to take care of themselves will avoid at all costs.

[1ajs]

its interesting how this has evolved. legalization of pot and cutting the underworld outa the pie was the first nail in this mess. then covid hit and the easy of scamming cerb while on welfare didnt help pooring gas on a issue speeding it up

now our big shelters are loving this as they are just a big tax shelter scam serious on this they dont care at the top its all about money

the cities need to start goi ng after the kitchens and shelters to take care of their surounding areas by working on street dignity programs from washing sidewalk to trash in these areas and empowering these folks with the tools and resources to take part and take care of their community they call home be amazed how little it takes to empower those that have fallen specialy when u give sens of community and belonging problems not guna go away we need to look at ways to help make these enviroments safer and healthyer

[niwell]

Not sure I fully agree about rent. Mentioned this in a previous post, but the type of ultra-cheap bedroom rentals available in rooming houses and other SRO buildings are disappearing in our cities fast, and I suspect this is contributing to visible "organized" homeless communities. We're talking $800+ for a bedroom in a suburban townhouse - this is both considerably higher than it was when I did it, but also much higher than what you could get a room in a rooming house for (generally $200-$300). It's probably doable for those who are gainfully employed, even if not in great jobs. But virtually impossible for anyone on government support.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Okay, while rent is a problem for some, I honestly don't think rent prices are as big a problem as the media makes it out to be.

Canada's housing affordability problem mostly affects young professionals who are trying to purchase their first home, and not poor people just looking for a roof over their heads. In the US, the second problem is definitely more dire, and it's sad that it affects both people in high cost places like California, but even low income renters in places where housing (to buy) is practically free, like inner city Detroit or St. Louis. Of course, somebody who lives paycheque to paycheque, does all their financial transactions at MoneyMart and has no credit history can't even buy a $10,000 house, so they're stuck renting a rat-infested shithole at American rents (which are higher than in Canada for similar housing quality in similar metros).

Poor people make concessions when it comes to housing that don't usually show up in official statistics. If you're a single poor person, you don't base your shelter costs on the median 1 BR rental price reported by CMHC and live by yourself in a suite with full amenities. You rent a bedroom in a home with roommates; you couch surf (this is precarious, but better than being "hard homeless"); you shack up with a partner that you might not have been prepared to shack up with.

Even today, with inflation and low wages, living on the streets is a desperate last resort that anybody who doesn't face mental challenges and the ability to take care of themselves will avoid at all costs.

Rents here might be lower than those in the US, but are still rising fast. They're up 25% in Vancouver and 20% in Toronto in just the last year - wages have certainly not kept pace. And as mentioned above, many of the SRO accommodations that those at the margins traditionally depended on have been gentrified & zoned out of existence. There's been a lot of talk around ODSP payments lately, because they've seen their first increase in years...to $1,169/month. Not even enough for a cheap apartment in Toronto anymore.

The "invisible homeless" living in cars or couch surfing, etc. might not be on the streets (yet), but it's a lot easier to slip through the cracks when in a precarious living situation. Stability is a necessary ingredient in fostering social & economic wellbeing, especially when it comes to something as essential as housing.

Now I don't know if the housing crisis is necessarily casing the current homelessness crisis & social disorder, but it's no doubt exacerbating it at least.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Now I don't know if the housing crisis is necessarily causing the current homelessness crisis & social disorder, but it's no doubt exacerbating it at least.

Data on homelessness isn't the best - it relies on volunteer-based homelessness counts and shelter entrances/exits - but even if we take that at face value, there's no upward trend in homelessness in Toronto over the past 4 years.

This is also true in smaller bedroom communities like like Peterborough, where rents have skyrocketed.

I don't know where to find accurate data on SRO rents and SRO supply, so I can't really comment on that, but even if they are disappearing and rents are soaring on those units, it isn't being borne out by the homelessness data.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by niwell

Not sure I fully agree about rent. Mentioned this in a previous post, but the type of ultra-cheap bedroom rentals available in rooming houses and other SRO buildings are disappearing in our cities fast, and I suspect this is contributing to visible "organized" homeless communities. We're talking $800+ for a bedroom in a suburban townhouse - this is both considerably higher than it was when I did it, but also much higher than what you could get a room in a rooming house for (generally $200-$300). It's probably doable for those who are gainfully employed, even if not in great jobs. But virtually impossible for anyone on government support.

In my hometown, I can name you at least 15 people (I’m being conservative; I probably could name 25+) that I know personally who used to have SRO rooms or cheap studio apts and could afford that pre-Covid but who live on the streets nowadays.

The vacancy rate is close to zero, rents have gone up sharply, no one wants to operate low-margins affordable housing anymore.

[Coldrsx]

The Downtown Edmonton business community has had enough.
---

Subject: Downtown Recovery Coalition (DRC)

As many of you know, a group of concerned leaders from both the private and public sectors have been working with many stakeholders in the downtown core. We have all come together under the Downtown Recovery Coalition (DRC).

The condition of the core as a result of the impact of covid, homelessness, addiction and mental health challenges leave us in a very precarious situation. Quite frankly, over the 32 years working downtown, I have never seen the downtown is this state of disarray. T

The key messaging of the DRC is as follows:

1. Downtown Edmonton is in rough shape. We are currently dealing with:
• Violence.
• Untidiness and waste all over our streets, i.e., garbage tornados, used needles etc.
• High rates of commercial vacancy, a sign of people not wanting to invest in our city and downtown core.
• People suffering in the streets with addictions and/or mental health problems.
• For many people, including many women, downtown doesn’t feel like safe a lot of the time.

2. Downtown is a critical part of the success of any city
• We’ve had many important investments in downtown including the Library, Churchill Square, the Ice District and arena, and the future Station Lands.
• We need investment like this to continue, but the state of downtown is deterring this from happening
• The greatest and most successful cities in the world thrive because of their vibrant downtowns.

3. We, as a community, can pull together and solve this
• The DRC has identified some current actions to be taken
o Develop better patrolling and security enforcements at LRT station entrances
o Have more police foot patrol downtown
o Repair the crumbling infrastructure including sidewalks, roads, benches, trees and garbage cans
o Accelerate the removal of construction material so it is not sitting on our streets and sidewalks
o Create better crisis diversion response times
o Develop transitional spaces for those struggling with addictions on the street to bridge the gap between homelessness and permanent housing
o Beginning to develop long term recovery spaces
• The City of Edmonton must take this issue seriously, and dedicate the required resources to revitalizing downtown before it’s too late.

4. Vulnerable people are not to blame
• It is not the fault of people struggling on the streets that we are in this situation.
• As a community, we have a shared responsibility to provide the support required to uplift our most vulnerable.
• No one suffering in the streets does not have a vision of a better life for themselves, or a hope for a better future for themselves

The DRC is going to officially launch its platform on September 29th at a press conference starting at 10AM on the north east corner of 102Ave and 103 street (in front of the vacated Hudson’s Bay store). I would really like to see all of you there to hear what the DRC has been working on and what the plans are for future downtown advocacy.

Please share this email with your contacts and let’s see if we can have a great showing on the 29th

Looking forward to seeing all of you on Thursday morning. Call me if you wish to discuss in greater detail

David Young
Executive Vice President, Managing Director
CBRE | Capital Markets
1995, 10180 101 Street | Edmonton, AB T5J 3S4
T +1 780 917 4625 | C +1 780 908 4525
dave.young@cbre.com | LinkedIn

[Coldrsx]

Today ~100 business and community leaders gathered to rally support for change.
---

PRESS RELEASE
Downtown Recovery Coalition sounds the alarm on our struggling downtown

September 29, 2022 (Edmonton, Alberta) - Today, the Downtown Recovery Coalition launched its website and released a list of specific actions that can be taken to improve the current state of our downtown.
Downtown Edmonton is the beating heart of our city. It is a centre for business, finance and professional services, an exciting entertainment district, and the seat of government for both the Alberta Legislature and Edmonton City Hall. It is home to 13,000 people and a workplace for 60,000. Less than 1% of the geographic area of Edmonton is downtown, but the land there comprises 10% of the municipal tax base.
Any downtown has an outsized role in shaping how a city is perceived by locals and visitors alike. It is critical that the issues facing the downtown Edmonton area are addressed in a holistic and comprehensive way so that all Edmontonians feel safe, secure and proud to be a part of the action when they visit downtown.
The Downtown Recovery Coalition is a group that has formed organically and independently to advocate for solutions for our downtown. Ideas that the Coalition is putting forward in an effort to identify solutions are:
Creating better patrolling and security enforcements at LRT station entrances.
Developing more community and solution-oriented policing.
Repairing crumbling infrastructure including sidewalks, roads, benches, trees and garbage cans.
Accelerating the removal of construction material so it is not sitting on our streets and sidewalks.
Creating better crisis diversion response times so that those experiencing crises are attended to as soon as possible.
Developing transitional spaces for those struggling with addictions on the street to bridge the gap between homelessness and permanent housing.
Beginning to develop long-term recovery spaces.
Quotes:
“I haven’t seen this amount of leadership from the community in over a decade. I’m incredibly proud of the commitment the 25 members of the DRC have shown on advocating for collaborative solutions. We have developed a set of short-, medium- and long-term actions, and will work with decision makers to solve them. Downtown is too important to the success of our city. We’re asking both City Council and Administration, as well as other orders of government, to prioritize our core and ensure it’s safe and welcoming for everyone,” says Coalition Chair Alex Hryciw.

“I’ve lived and worked downtown for many years, and it brings me no satisfaction to be a critic,” says Coalition Vice-Chair Anand Pye. “But things have gotten to a point where we need to talk about this as a community and focus on solutions. Our Coalition developed because we all care about downtown and want it to be better. We need support from the community and those who share our passion to pull together. We will be communicating with the public through the mailing list you can sign up for on our website, and letting people know when we need them to step up, speak up, come to council meetings, and any other items that could help downtown thrive,” said Pye.
Members of the Downtown Recovery Coalition Steering Committee are:
Alex Hryciw, Coalition Chair, Director of Strategy, Edmonton Chamber of Commerce
Anand Pye, Coalition Vice-Chair, Executive Director, NAIOP Edmonton
Cheryll Watson, Coalition Secretary-Treasurer, Chief Connector, STEM Collegiate
Chad Helm, Founder, The Helm
Chris Buyze, President, Downtown Edmonton Community League
Dave Young, Executive Vice President, CBRE
Devin Pope, Partner, Gather Co.
Henry Edgar, Partner, EDGAR
Jan Fox, Executive Director, REACH Edmonton
Jenny Adams, President, The Adams Agency
Jim Brown, Partner, Sherrick Management
Kalen Anderson, Executive Director, UDI Edmonton-Metro
Kevin McKee, CEO, Pamgman Developments
Lisa Baroldi, President and CEO, BOMA Edmonton
Puneeta McBryan, Executive Director, Edmonton Downtown Business Association
Robert Black, Partner, MLT Aikins
Robert Seidel, National Managing Partner, DLA Piper (Canada) LLP
Sean Kirk, General Manager, Edmonton City Centre

To learn more about the Downtown Recovery Coalition and stay up to date on its work, please visit www.yegdowntown.ca.